Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Garrett Atkins, May 23, 2013.
Actually, I find the Leia/Han romance in TESB a lot more rushed.
It's not supposed to be as indepth as the Anakin/Padme relationship, because its not as major a plot point as it is in the PT movies. (I have to find the exact quote in the Annotated Screenplays from Kershner) but he talks specifically about why he doesn't focus on the Han/Leia relationship more then he did. He pretty much said he just wanted enough scenes to establish a love connection between the two that builds through the movie and culminates when Han is being frozen in carbonite. But he didn't want it to overshadow the Luke/Vader storyline that is the MAJOR plot of the movie that is revealed at the end when Vader tells him he is his dad. The Padme/Anakin love story IS the main story of the PT, as thats the reason for his downfall, so Lucas must spend more time on it because it is the cause/effect of him becoming Vader.
This...and we also have to consider the time spent together between episodes.
Han and Leia have been together(not romantically, but in each others presence) for the 3-4 years between SW and TESB. Han's been flirting with her this whole time, and though she's kept up a strong front, she's probably been developing feelings for him this whole time.
Anakin and Padme spent a short time together as kids, then they don't see each other for 10 years. He's had a crush on her this whole time, but she never thought of him as anything more than this little kid/friend. Then when they do see each other again, in a matter of a few weeks she supposedly falls in love with this creepy, whiny, Sandwomen and Sandchildren murdering guy? What a catch! Lol
I have to go with the OT for a couple of reasons. First, I really don't enjoy TPM all that much. I don't hate it, and I really enjoyed the film when it was first released, but it doesn't fit with the rest of the saga to me. The main character is really Qui Gon in this film, and I never connected with his character like I did with Obi Wan and Anakin. For that reason, when I watch the saga, I usually start with AoTC (and usually with the Tartakovsky Clone Wars series in between II and III). The other reason I can't choose the PT is those few cringe-worthy lines that really hamper the viewing experience for me. But suffice it to say, I love the entire saga, and I don't understand all the PT hate. I have learned to love Obi Wan, Anakin, and Padme just as much as Luke, Han, and Leia, especially through TCW.
Original trilogy. I was young enough to see them all in the theater, and enjoy collecting/playing with the merchandise that followed. Seeing Episode IV for the first time was one of those events that changed my life, even though I was only 7 at the time.
I'd rather not choose, because I do love the saga. But if I had to it would, of course, be the OT.
I would, however, miss so much about the PT that I do love.
The OT has better characterization, but the PT has a far more interesting and compelling story. I choose the the latter.
As a stand alone classic, I think ANH is the best of the films, but these days the trilogy I enjoy watching the most is the PT.
I don't know... I love them both. But i've voted the PT cause the story is more interesting.
PT is light years better. Instead of the ST, they should reshoot the OT so it works better with the PT.
PT, and it's not even close. Flame on.
OT when I'm in a OT type of mood and PT when I'm not.
Since we only have a binary choice, I went with the PT.
I've seen TPM & AotC in theatre, then the OT at home and liked all of them. But the moment I became a SW fan was when I saw RotS in theatre. I was speechless for about an hour after the film ended & I'll never forget it (I was 12 y/o). This just nudges the PT above the OT for me.
I'm sure there will be many kids growing up today who'll prefer the ST for similar reasons, no matter how ****** the old fans will think of it.
MODified: We have a Disallowed Words list.
I respect your opinion, but I had the opposite effect of most movie franchises growing up and seeing and them in the theater. I saw Temple of Doom, Superman II, Rocky III, Star Trek IV in the movie theater, yet I love Raiders of the Lost Ark, Superman I, Rocky I, and Star Trek II more despite seeing them on cable years later AFTER I saw the sequels first.
PT is fun and political, OT when I'm in the mood for a story that has depth.
Pretty much this for me as well. I grew up watching the OT on videotape and bought a bunch of figures in the 90's as I did with the PT, but as I have gotten older I realize more and more that the OT is done in a much more grounded and relate able manner. So, the OT for me for sure.
About the love stories :
There is less time and emphasis put on the Han/Leia affair, but it still works much better than Anakin and Padme's. It's less rushed !
The way the love story in the PT is written and filmed is clumsy. Same for the OB/Anakin friendship.
The huge age difference in TPM doesn't help. It makes Ani look weird, with his obsession at the beginning of Aotc. Anakin and Padme look and sound cold, there's no humor, no seduction, ...
Harrison Ford and Carrie (in IV & V at least) manage to give the love scenes much more weight.
Han doesn't spend his time saying that he loves leia, and blah and blah. Neither does she. But it is obvious that they care.
Anakin keeps saying that he loves Padme, that OB1 is a father to him, again and again and again, but it just doesn't feel ... alive.
Anakin and padme spend most time in Aotc walking around, talking. The scene after the Tusken slaughter was not bad in the original theatrical release, but the new editing on DVDs and Blurays ruined it.
I'd say that the acting and editing of the prequels, especially in eps 1 & 2, makes dialog scenes very painful.
Then Ani and Padme are thrown into a cartoonish and endless ugly action scene in the droid factory on Geonosis. errrrr ... Right ...
Then Padme declares her love as they are about to enter the arena. errrr ... Right ... And Ani is surprised because they had decided not to love each other because it would destroy them, and blah blah blah ... errrrrr
What was George thinking ??? I couldn't care less about this love story.
In ROTS it doesn't bother me too much. Everything is going wrong, and the acting is better. The writing is less clumsy. It would have worked better if the relationships between characters had been better established in the previous épisodes, but the movie itself is not bad. It's the only prequel I can Watch without skipping through chapters, and it works fine with 4,5,6. The scene with OB and Ani in the temple, discussing Ani's mission is great. OB looks worried and sorry. The OB/Ani scènes in ROTS are good in general. It makes us believe there is a friendship of some kind. The only exception would be the opening rescue sequence above Coruscant : The Buddy movie style is so forced, and the humor not funny. At all. (Id say that the final duel is rather forced too, and less emotional than the ESb and RoTJ duels, or the other scènes with OB and Ani in epIII. Plain boring !)
The Pt's total lack of humor is its weakness. Most of the characters never come to life. I Watch TPM & AOTC from time to time. Like I would Watch a cheap (yes !) starwars live tv show. Not on the same level as the OT, IMHO. EpIII is much better. In my mind, there are 4 starwars movies : 3, 4, 5, 6. 3 being, in many ways, better than 6. But I take these 4 as a whole. Works great.
In real life, there have been relationships that were rushed. That didn't take the time and effort to properly get to know the other. However long these relationships last varies. In the case of Padme and Anakin, it is meant to be a stark contrast. Anakin's feelings are meant to be awkward because he hasn't spend time around women that Han did in his life. It's like comparing the person who never dated in high school, to the guy who was having sex all the time, since at least thirteen. The obsessiveness is part of what leads him to do what he does later on, whereas Han winds up not going that route because his views on life were much different from Anakin's.
The age difference is only four years. In TPM, it starts with a friendship. By AOTC, it is a friendship that changes into romance. They've had days together and as Jar Jar says, this is the first time she's been happy in a long time. She's not consumed by her work and thus she can enjoy herself and enjoy being with someone who is familiar and whose company she enjoys. Anakin's surprise later on is because she was now willing to admit that which she was trying to avoid doing so earlier. He's not searching her thoughts out of respect for her and to hear her come to a decision takes him off guard.
Anyway, I like both trilogies. Both stories work on their own and together.
Really depends on your point of view and your mood. If you want to think and substance over style: OT. If you don't want cognitive workout and prefer style over substance: PT.
But I prefer substance over style, so OT.
I have to go with OT, but I really enjoy the PT as well. When I was younger, I liked the PT more because there were lots of battles, but the OT, in my opinion, develops characters better.
Oh boy, today was an interesting day in college...
When talking about film, the professor was slamming The Phantom Menace (through the cliched subjective arguments: better written, better filmed, yada yada yada), and asked if any of us actually preferred it to A New Hope, in an attempt to down prove his opinion. Though I raised my hand. This immediately started a ****storm after I told him that, honest to God, I did enjoy it more as a movie. Though rather than feed the flames, I stopped there - it's the real dumbasses who flaunt their opinion like it's a given fact; if I actually fought back and said "no YOU'RE wrong!" that would only put me on the same level of narrow-mindedness.
With that, I say the only people who are wrong are the people unable to see the other side of the argument.
MODified: Great post, aside from the Disallowed Word.
Even though I like ANH better than TPM, bravo, man!
I grew up watching the PT slightly more than the OT, but the OT is a much better trilogy. The story, the heroes, the villains have much more depth to them, as apposed to characters in the PT that nobody can really relate to. The members of the Rebellion and the Empire are real people who had families and a house that they lived in who then joined the Rebel Alliance or the Galactic Empire because they believed in one of those respective causes, as apposed to the clone and droid soldiers that can have more be made of them. Also, you can actually feel bad when a member of the Rebels goes down, unlike a clone trooper who can just be made again.
Errr…I respect that you had trouble relating to the PT characters, but honestly, speak for yourself. I've always related far better to the PT characters than Han or Leia. We don't know a thing about Han -- just that he's a smuggler who worked for gangsters -- and I honestly see little to relate to with him. Sure, lots of people look up to him and idealize him, but I wouldn't say that makes him relatable -- it just gives him a veneer of cool. Likewise with Leia -- I like her, but she brushes everything off way too easily for me to ever relate to her -- the destruction of Alderaan, her torture, the revelation that Darth Vader is her father.
As to the clones vs. Rebels, I never found the Rebels that sympathetic (as individuals) besides Biggs, due to his shared past with Luke. If anything, the Imperial officers were much more compelling characters. The clone troopers, at least, had more of my sympathy due to how they were manipulated as just another cog in the war machine.
To say nothing of Anakin, Padmé, and Obi-Wan, who are the people in the Saga I most relate to. Especially Anakin -- I may not have grown up a slave or have Force powers almost beyond the imagination, but I do know what it's like to feel as though you're an outsider, to have only a few people to hold on to, and how you would anything not to lose them, no matter whether it is right or wrong.
That's pretty inhuman, imo. Just the fact that they are clones doesn't make them less human. They may be less individual, yes, but just like PiettsHat said: that's also tragic and can create sympathies.
Imagine parents lose their child during pregnancy and someone says "No problem, that's not bad, they can just make another one. It's the same gene pool after all, isn't it?". That's basically your saying about the clones.
Also glad you tell me that I'm suddenly "nobody"