OT- Shake anyone?

Discussion in 'Fan Films, Fan Audio & SciFi 3D' started by DarthMoves, Oct 8, 2002.

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  1. DarthMoves Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2002
    star 2
    Anyone use Shake, by apple? It seems to be the top compositing app and I was wondering how it compares to combustion or AE?

  2. RocketGirl Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2002
    star 4
    Awww... I thought you were offering milkshakes! :(
  3. tumblemoster Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 1, 2000
    star 4
    At $5000 for the Mac version and $10,000 for the windows version, I'd say probably not many here. I'll pick it up when I win the lottery, but until then...

    Although, I wouldn't be surprised to see a midrange compositing package from Apple in the near future. Apple has a history of buying great companies and using their technology to the betterment of the platform. Look at Final Cut Pro. Apple bought the company that first built FCP (under another name, can't remember it) and turned FCP into the best video editing tool out there.

    Final Composite Pro, anyone?

    -tm
  4. dark_lord_biped Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2002
    star 2
    while final cut pro is a great app for video editing it is not top of the pops. AVID is king of editing. i rather sure episode one and two were cut on an AVID Symphony. now that AVID runs like 15,000 to start and i mean striped down. and can go a s high as the moon with add ons.
    i have compared avid express an old pc version with final cut pro. they are about equal in performance but the FCP was much cheaper. im currently running FCP.
  5. BrentK7 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 20, 2000
    star 4
    i agree you can't really say FCP is the best, it may be the best in your opinion but not overall best.
  6. DarthMoves Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2002
    star 2
    FCP is the best PRO-SUMER NLE system out there simply because it is platform specific. Avid Xpress is good, but it I think FCP is better. Naturally, this is all a matter of opinion. Getting back to Shake. I am going to buy it for my company, not for FanFilms( oh, hell, I am going to use it for both!)

    Mike
  7. tumblemoster Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 1, 2000
    star 4
    The lowest priced version of any Avid system is over $2500. For that price, you get very little. Did you know that you have to spend over $15,000 (something like that anyway)on a Avid system just to get the J,K,L keys mapped to forward, stop, and reverse? It's insane.

    Avid systems are widely used, but they are NOT top of the heap, not for the money they cost. I'll edit on FCP over Avid any day.

    -tm
  8. malducin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2001
    star 4
    I briefly played with Shake a few SIGGRAPHs ago (before being bought by apple, sniff).

    It was really full featured. You'll probably feel it very differently from AE, since it's node based, as opposed to timeline focused like AE. It seems to be a great toy for people with more TD inclinations. You can use it script based which makes it very flexible.
  9. dark_lord_biped Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2002
    star 2
    vid systems are widely used, but they are NOT top of the heap

    not to get off topic again but if avid is not top dog what is??
    im not talking just software im talking thier own product hardware and all is used in a ton of top studios.
  10. tumblemoster Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 1, 2000
    star 4
    not to get off topic again but if avid is not top dog what is??
    im not talking just software im talking thier own product hardware and all is used in a ton of top studios.


    Good question. Currently Avid is top dog in the studio industry. But you're asking the wrong question. The question you should be asking is: Why? The answer is, they got in first, and they got in only, for a very long time. Until recently there hasn't been anything powerful enough to compete. And in the time they've been top dog, they've gotten complacent, and many folks see an upset coming.

    All of that, however, is almost mute. The real point here is price. An Avid system capable of editing uncompressed HD and film will cost you at minimum ninety-thousand dollars, and probably closer to One hundred twenty thousand. The same HD/Film uncompressed setup in FCP will only cost you thirty grand (mostly hardware). Big difference.

    But for most of our needs, even the above is not required. How about editing standard DV? FCP is $1000. The most basic Avid is &2500. At this price, the feature set of FCP is the same as most of the most expensive Avid systems. For one grand, FCP gives you fantastic workflow, powerful and industry standard editing features, ability to edit HD and DV (assuming you have the hardware) and all of the compositing features built into the basic version of After Effects. With the Avid (which is costing you $1500 more by the way) you get basic editing features, and that's about it. You have to pay more to have J/K/L mapped to the keyboard for goodness sake!

    The point I'm trying to make here is, yes, while Avid currently owns the industry, but for a small studio it just isn't economical. We can talk all day about what ILM, Weeta, this studio or that studio uses, but none of that matters. We have to choose tools that are right for us. Personally, I feel that FCP offer the best editing environment currently available, so that is what I will use. Perhaps that's not how someone else will feel, but that is irrelevant to me. If you feel you can only edit on a $60 thousand Avid, then more power to you. But if you can spend cash like that, could you maybe send some my way?

    -tm
  11. John_FC Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2000
    star 3
    To whoever was looking at buying Shake, see the bundles apple just announced with Maya... check out: This link...

    john
  12. dark_lord_biped Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2002
    star 2
    im aware of what your were saying that avid is not in the pro sumer arean because FCP is tops for that. i also know avid is top dog because they were first. they were not first newteck has something prior to them but avid was very easy to use. much simpler than an a b roll suite which i still like to use call me old school. it is great for faster turn over.
    but like you said for an avrage fan film after effects and fcp are great.
  13. JediTAC Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2000
    star 5
    I'm not quite sure why someone would be so ready to buy a $5,000 to $10,000 program that he knows nothing about.

    Has your company directed you ro buy SHAKE?
    Or did they task you to buy a compositing program, and you "heard" SHAKE was really good?

    I would do a little more research before shelling out that kind of money - even if it isn't yours.
    Perhaps the makers of SHAKE can arrange an in-house demonstration for you BEFORE you commit to buying it.
  14. DarthMoves Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2002
    star 2
    Leave it to JediTACY to post something like that. I did research, but I wanted to hear a NON bias opinion. I have a commercial production company that also does music videos, directors reels and basic, non-creative editing. We work primarily on FCP with a Kona card for HD and Film. We are doing REAL well, and have snagged a really high profile client ( not all of us here are 15 year olds!). I was thinking of expanding somewhat. My compositer uses Commotion Pro and AE. I would like to ease the workflow of having FCP, DVDSP and SHAKE all in one system and put the other apps on the secondary systems. BTW, there is NO WAY I would be paying 5000$ for Shake. We have a sweet deal with Apple and Abode. I did research, but testimonials on apples website are only SO convincing.
  15. John_FC Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2000
    star 3
    You tell him DarthMoves! :p

    :)

    I concur on the Kona setup. I work at an Apple Reseller where the video guy raves about them... Sounds like a sweet setup! :)

    john
  16. JediTAC Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2000
    star 5
    Hey Moves ... I was simply making an observation and offering up a suggestion. :(

    If you take offense to something I write/wrote because of, perhaps, a misinterpretation on your part,
    always feel free to drop me a PM and I would be more than happy to explain my words. :)


    I think if more people did that when there is a question as to a person's true meaning within a post,
    we could avoid a lot of the unjustified arguments and persecution that has occurred in the past. ;)




    JediTAC
  17. DarthMoves Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2002
    star 2
    Maybe you should have PM'ed me, because there was nothing but light hearted sarcasm in my tone! Cheers!
    Mike
  18. DarthMoves Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2002
    star 2
    The Kona Rocks! It has made working with FCP and Cinema Tools an absoulte dream. I haven't really done much with the HD side of it yet, but cinema tools has really opened up the market as far film matchback is concerned. Even though it isn't done often anymore, people were reluctant to spend all that time editing on a system that could not match back to film ( ie FCP before CT) JUST IN CASE. Now, the option is there. Also, hollywood is all about buzz and hype. People KNOW Avid. Soon, Avid will be just an expensive T-REX.

    Moves
  19. malducin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2001
    star 4
    If you are shopping around you might be interested to check Nuke by the guys from Digital Domain. It's price should be comparable to that of Shake and with a similar philosophy:

    D2 Software
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