main
side
curve
  1. Welcome to the new boards! Details here!

OT Theme vs ST Theme

Discussion in 'Star Wars And Film Music' started by PaulWrightyThen, Dec 18, 2017.

  1. PaulWrightyThen

    PaulWrightyThen Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2016
    Hello.

    I'd be interested to know peoples opinions on this nitpick of mine. In both TFA and TLJ The opening crawl music hasn't sat right with me. Something felt... lacking. For me, the opening 'BWAAAA' doesn't have as much punch to it and it all feels a little muffled, whereas in the OTeach section of the orchestra really shines through. There's more pomp and aggression in the playing. Even the prequel trilogy seems more in keeping with the originals.

    So I've been listening to both.
    Empire
    https://open.spotify.com/track/4LuZ4k6Aj6dTMBh6ZFdYdq

    The last Jedi
    https://open.spotify.com/track/14WRg0of6952chD7pYV9tQ


    I don't know if this is the London Symphony Orchestra's playing style, or if the new orchestra is just a bit... timid.

    I'd be interested to hear peoples thoughts because, as someone who didn't like TLJ and has backtracked on my liking of the Force awakens as much as I did, I think its quite symbolic of the state of the ST.

    Still nice, but nowhere near as punchy, not as grand and all a bit... muffled.
     
    DarthTalonx and Lulu Mars like this.
  2. Strilo

    Strilo Manager Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2001
    It's not the LSO. I don't get the hate for the opening cue for TFA/TLJ. It sounds fine to me. I got used to the new sound quite quickly. I love the sound quality. Truly a 21st century dynamic range.
     
  3. Larsonator

    Larsonator Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 20, 2016
    I really don’t mind the TFA/TLJ recording. The opening blast doesn’t have the “punch” that Empire and Jedi have but to me it’s... something else that’s equally as powerful. Rian Johnson was on a podcast a couple days ago and mentioned how Williams tinkers with the main title for each movie, which makes it weird that TFA and TLJ have the same one if they went through the effort of making a new one for TLJ.
     
  4. PaulWrightyThen

    PaulWrightyThen Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2016
    The main blast SHOULD be punchy. Its sending you into a space adventure. If that doesn't get the viewer pumped then 'uhoh'. I don't hate the music by the way. Just because I don;t find it as punchy or as good doesn't mean I'm sat there going red in the face. Another telling sign of the times we live in.

    Me: "I didn't like this aspect that much"

    Internet: "You haaaaaaaaaaaate it!"

    Me: "No".
     
    Lulu Mars likes this.
  5. Jester J Binks

    Jester J Binks Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2016
    Honestly, I can't tell if this is ironic sarcasm.

    If there is one thing the 21st century is known for in the audio world, it is killing dynamic range.
     
  6. PaulWrightyThen

    PaulWrightyThen Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2016
    Someone will do a breathless accoustic cover of the disco version for a bank.

    "Sta....rr... waarss...... nothing but..... Staaarrrah... whaaars..... Do... do... do do do..................................do....."
     
    Sarge and Jester J Binks like this.
  7. CaptainEO

    CaptainEO Jedi Master

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2002
    I agree there is less punch in the ST opening. Bring back the punch!


    (but what I really I miss is the 20th Century Fox fanfare)
     
    Kladdagh, Lulu Mars and Sarge like this.
  8. B99

    B99 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2014
    The opening music used for TFA/TLJ probably my least fav outta all 5. But it's alright..


    I thought that JW would rec a new version of the crawl for TLJ. But i'm totally fine reusing TFA's version.
     
  9. B99

    B99 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2014
    I listened to that to.. They even played his new recording(?) during the podcast.. Wonder why they didn't use it..??
     
  10. Strilo

    Strilo Manager Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2001
    Indeed for much music out there, especially pop and rock. But I don't find the orchestral recordings for Star Wars to be among those suffering from the Loudness Wars.
     
    DARTH_BELO and Jester J Binks like this.
  11. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2013
    Personally, I dig the new crawl music. The only variation I like better is the PT one.
     
    Lulu Mars and B99 like this.
  12. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    Yeah, the one they used in TPM, AOTC and ROTS is the most “perfect” version to my ears. I wish they’d used different recordings for all the episodes, though, to give them all a bit of personality.
     
  13. DARTH_BELO

    DARTH_BELO Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2003
    I noticed these subtle differences as well over the years-some of it is due to performance, some due to recording technology and some due to mixing. I will acknowledge that since the themes for these trilogies are recorded years apart from eachother, recording technology (as well as mixing methods) had changed greatly over the course of that time. One Trilogy's theme may have the percussion and low strings be stronger, the other may have the trumpet or woodwinds shine more, one might have the xylophone stand out more, etc. It's just a natural occurrence with multiple different performances of the same piece of music-especially if they're spanned across several decades!

    I actually prefer the opening theme sound for the ST films. They generally sound much...cleaner, and brighter-with a better balance between instruments. LOL go figure, since today's recording technology is far beyond the equipment they used in the 70's! ;)

    I always felt the opening theme in the OT occasionally had pitch problems in certain spots, as well as issues with the tightness and balance of the sound, and also weakness in the low range-since there was no such thing as a subwoofer channel back then, this made sense. ROTJ is not too bad, but ANH in particular sounds weak to me, simply cos of how it was recorded. It's improved with the great surround sound mix of the blu-rays, but IMO it still sounds like the orchestra was basically recorded in a library conference room or something!

    The PT on the other hand sounded more powerful in the lower range instruments, including percussion. But the brass instruments really got buried. That main trumpet really just does not shine thru on those themes. IMO there's also a bit too much reverb for my taste, which makes it generally sound more distant...
     
  14. DARTH_BELO

    DARTH_BELO Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2003
    I'd wager the dynamic range is adjusted for orchestral music as well-considering the media it's availiable on. I agree for those who love to listen to music in the quiet of their room and just enjoy all the nuances, it lowers the quality abit. But most people nowadays listen to music mainly in their car, or on headphones while out and about-amongst the noise. I know I do. This is why they compress everything, so the impatient people of today don't have to constantly adjust their volume just to hear parts of the song. Otherwise they're less compelled to listen to it.

    As I understand it, the main reason the low and high dynamic range limits are clipped on songs is cos nowadays almost all people enjoy music in MP3 format or simliar (iTunes, Pandora and the like). The compressing of the audio file makes the sound coming in on those higher/lower range frequencies simply translate as digital noise, since the file can't handle that wide of a range. What we REALLY need these days is a new file format for music which doesn't cause any signal degredation from the source sound to the compressed file, and has a dynamic range as wide as say an LP or CD-or perhaps even superaudio CD.

    I think it's just less obvious on orchestral music, cos of it's fluid and generally non-rhythmic nature, compared to the way pop songs are.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018
  15. B99

    B99 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2014
    Yeah, I thought TLJ would have different recording..
     
  16. B99

    B99 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2014
    So after listening to both TFA and TLJ crawl themes, more or less just the opening BAHHH, I've listened to TFA straight from the film for a while and sounds like the Crawl Cue for TLJ is slightly different then TFA . But the OSTs both sound identical... That make sense?
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018