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Saga Outcome of Every SW Duel: Win by Power, Fluke, Draw, or Surrender

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by MidKnighT, Feb 9, 2016.

  1. MidKnighT

    MidKnighT Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    May 23, 2005
    Hi All,

    I'm going to try to analyze each duel in Star Wars and see if the result was due to power, fluke, draw, or surrender. First let me define my terms:

    POWER = The victor was more powerful and the end of the duel is the expected result.

    FLUKE = The underdog won but loses to the opponent they defeated 9 out of 10 times. In other words, they got lucky.

    DRAW = Both combatants had equal power and neither gained any significant advantage.

    SURRENDER = One side purposely gave up or ran.

    Now let's go through each duel. Do you agree or disagree with my findings?

    E1: Darth Maul vs Qui Gon Jinn (Tatooine)
    Result: Darth Maul wins by SURRENDER - Qui Gon ran away from the fight and was clearly exhausted. I can see some people thinking it was a draw but I'll go with surrender.

    E1: Darth Maul vs Qui Gon Jinn (Naboo)
    Result: Darth Maul wins by POWER

    E1: Darth Maul vs Obi-Wan Kenobi
    Result: Obi-Wan wins by FLUKE - I think 9 times out of 10 Maul wins this fight but he was dumb.

    E2: Obi-Wan vs Jango Fett
    Result: Obi-Wan wins by SURRENDER - I think Jango knew he was over-matched and ran. He also had help from Boba in Slave 1.

    E2: Mace Windu vs Jango Fett
    Result: Mace Windu wins by POWER

    E2: Count Dooku vs Obi-Wan Kenobi
    Result: Count Dooku wins by POWER

    E2: Count Dooku vs Anakin Skywalker
    Result: Count Dooku wins by POWER - Anakin is just too green at this point to go up against someone with Dooku's power and experience.

    E2: Yoda vs Count Dooku
    Result: Yoda wins by SURRENDER - The duel looked pretty even but Dooku ended up running away so I'm calling it a win by surrender.

    E3: Count Dooku vs Obi-Wan Kenobi
    Result: Count Dooku wins by POWER - Dooku still owns Obi-Wan in E3.

    E3: Count Dooku vs Anakin Skywalker
    Result: Anakin Skywalker wins by POWER - I think it's pretty clear Anakin is more powerful than Dooku at this point, especially if he taps into the dark side.

    E3: Obi-Wan Kenobi vs General Grievous
    Result: Obi-Wan Kenobi by SURRENDER - Obi-Wan basically hacks off most of Grievous' hands and Grievous runs. I think that's pretty much when the duel was over.

    E3: Darth Sidious vs Kit Fisto or Agen Kolar or Saesee Tiin
    Result: Darth Sidious wins by POWER - It doesn't matter which of these 3 you put up against Sidious, they all lose quickly.

    E3: Darth Sidious vs Mace Windu
    Result: ??? wins by ??? - This is the most interesting and debatable result of the saga. If you basically declare the duel over once Mace has Sidious pinned down with no weapon then you could argue for Mace Windu by SURRENDER (if Sidious was faking defeat) or Mace Windu by FLUKE or Mace Windu by POWER. But then again, Sidious is the one that walks away from the fight alive so maybe Sidious by POWER? Sidious by FLUKE? (Anakin interfering). All debatable.

    E3: Darth Vader vs Anyone who's in the jedi temple or the trade federation guys
    Result: Darth Vader wins by POWER obviously.

    E3: Yoda vs Darth Sidious
    Result: Darth Sidious by SURRENDER - Yoda is the one running away so I see this result similar to Yoda/Dooku in E2. Of course a DRAW is a reasonable argument.

    E3: Obi-Wan Kenobi vs Darth Vader
    Result: Obi-Wan Kenobi wins by FLUKE - Just like the Maul fight, Kenobi was over matched but eventually won out against a superior opponent due to his opponent being dumb. 9 times out of 10 Vader wins this one IMO.

    E4: Obi-Wan Kenobi vs Darth Vader
    Result: Darth Vader wins by SURRENDER - Obi-Wan basically gave up, suicide by lightsaber.

    E5: Luke Skywalker vs Darth Vader
    Result: Darth Vader wins by POWER - You could say surrender since Luke fell on purpose to get away but I think he was already thoroughly beaten at that point.

    E6: Luke Skywalker vs Darth Vader
    Result: Luke Skywalker wins by POWER - I say Luke is finally stronger than his father at this point.

    E6: Luke Skywalker vs Darth Sidious
    Result: Luke Skywalker wins by FLUKE - 1 on 1 Sidious wins every time but Darth Vader's interference created this fluke win.

    E7: Finn vs TR-8R Trooper
    Result: TR-8R Trooper wins by POWER - Finn put that thing away, you're not doing any good with it.

    E7: Finn vs Kylo Ren
    Result: Kylo Ren wins by POWER - Finn, picking up a lightsaber against a trained dark sider is not a good idea unless you're a well trained jedi.

    E7: Rey vs Kylo Ren
    Result: Rey wins by FLUKE - Don't see how you can call it anything but a fluke since Kylo has had years of training.
     
  2. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Nice analysis. :)
     
  3. thejeditraitor

    thejeditraitor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    E7: Rey vs Kylo Ren

    rey wins by power. it's totally obvious she's more innately powerful than him.
     
    Avnar likes this.
  4. Sith-I-5

    Sith-I-5 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 14, 2002
    E6: Luke Skywalker vs Darth Sidious
    Result: Luke Skywalker wins by FLUKE - 1 on 1 Sidious wins every time but Darth Vader's interference created this fluke win.

    In Everquest, we would have called this a KS or "Kill Steal". Just because it started with Luke and the Emperor, doesn't mean the end result has to be one of them.

    Vader interfered, and Vader got the kill.
     
    Darth Dreadwar likes this.
  5. Darth Dnej

    Darth Dnej Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2013
    Still a fluke, you can be innately powerful but still lose to a more experienced opponent because you don't know how to use that power.

    I disagree. I do not see Luke as stronger than Vader. Luke was going all out at the end of the fight, Vader was still holding back. It was a fluke.
     
  6. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
  7. MidKnighT

    MidKnighT Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    May 23, 2005

    But Luke didn't just win the end of the fight. Remember how he kicked Vader down the stairs? And he handled everything Vader threw at him without much trouble.
     
  8. Rhyoth

    Rhyoth Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 20, 2015
    I wouldn't call it a fluke, this was a pretty balanced fight : Obi-wan doesn't have the crazy potential of Anakin, but make up with his experience, concentration & focus, technique, "tactical" skills and a better control over his emotions : those are pretty important as well in a fight.

    Vader himself acknowledge his inexperience caused his defeat:
     
    Darth Dnej likes this.
  9. MidKnighT

    MidKnighT Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    May 23, 2005

    Quote out of the Making of ROTS book.

    "On AOTC, I had to give them levels," he says. Sidious is a level 9(out of 10). On this film Obi is 8-he's moved up-Anakin is a 9: Mace is a 9, Yoda is a 9. They're up there with Sidious."

    So in ROTS Anakin is a 9 and Obi-Wan is an 8. So under normal circumstances Anakin/Vader should win. But he didn't hence the fluke.

    Vader: "This is the end for you my master"

    He wasn't lying. Obi-Wan should have been dead.
     
  10. ObiWanKnowsMe

    ObiWanKnowsMe Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 7, 2015
    Maul Vs Qui-gon on Tatooine- Surrender
    Maul vs Qui-gon on Naboo- Power
    Maul vs Obi-wan- Fluke
    Jango vs Obi-wan- Draw
    Jango vs Windu- Power
    Dooku vs Obi-wan/Anakin-Power
    Yoda vs Dooku-Surrender.... Dooku fled because he knew he was no match for Yoda. I do see why some people see this as a stalemate though, but I do not agree.
    Dooku vs Anakin(Episode 3)- Power
    Obi-Wan vs Grievous- Power
    Palpatine vs Windu- Draw
    Palpatine vs Yoda-Draw
    Obi-wan vs Anakin- Fluke