Padmé as a role model for girls - uh, not so much

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by ~ô¿ô~, May 31, 2005.

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  1. ~ô¿ô~ Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 25, 1999
    star 1
    As far as a "strong female character" I think she fits very well, though I'd accept that there are times she's too impulsive for her won good

    (Sweetie, there's a reason they don't let Jedi form attachments...)
  2. MondoMan Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2005
    You can explain away a lot when it comes to these movies (and it is always fun to do); but you can not explain away Jar Jar and this plot point. Lucas just blew it. It's almost like he was afraid to really have Anakin kill her off.
  3. MagicSkywalker Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2005
    Padmé gave up on living because Anankin turned to the dark side so he could save her from dying but she still deid any way because if he stayed to the good side he would have saved her. She was strong until that point she just couldn't live with a husband like that you know what I mean don't you. @};-
  4. Ms_Padme Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 1
    I've always thought it dangerous to promote fictional characters as role models for kids, be they boys or girls.

    In RotS I don't think it was so much her pregnancy that changed her, but the secrecy(and the the writing team.)When I was pregnant I can honestly say my personality didn't change; yes, I changed the way I may have done certain physical things but that didn't affect my inner being.

    I also think the biggest difference in the Padme of RotS as opposed to I & II is that this is the first time we see her private life. Remember that in her professional life she has plenty of people she turns to for advice, people who work with and counsel her on government and politics. We see a person who excels at working with and for others, a person who loves open and honest discussion and believes in is the only way for her to achieve things.

    In RotS we see her effectively on her own; even when she is shown in the Senate she cannot discuss her private life as she is at work. I know that in the book she talks to others, but I haven't read it and most movie goers won't read it, so I am sticking to what is shown in the film. Her belief in being open and honest shrinks as her belly grows. The open approach she has lived her life by goes farther away from her daily life. The only person she can discuss it with is going through his own emotional hell, eaten away by fear and self loathing. We see a Padme who is no longer relied on but reliant.

    I've posted in other threads that her dying was more of a martyrdom than a death wish. As long as she lived she was as great a threat to her kids as the Emperor and Vader.

    Geesh, how can I change my user name to Ms_Mothma?
  5. ~ô¿ô~ Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 25, 1999
    star 1
    Padmé gave up on living because Anankin turned to the dark side so he could save her from dying but she still deid any way because if he stayed to the good side he would have saved her. She was strong until that point she just couldn't live with a husband like that you know what I mean don't you.

    That is excatly my point, Magic (no, not the fact that you seem to have difficulty avoiding runon sentences).

    "she couldn't live with a husband like that?" Why not? She had (or was going to have) at least one child to live for - why should that child live with a father like that, if she can't live with a husband like that?
  6. SKSeven Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2005
    star 1
    Well....

    Leia never had anything like this happen to her.

    If Anakin had betrayed her at some point earlier in the movie, I think Padme would have hauled ass and left. Not because she was weak, but because she was pregenant, and as a prospective mother, her instinict would be to care for her children. However, you're at your emotional worst when you're that far along [and since she is human, we can assume the same insane hormone changes], the fact that your entire world suddenly blew to holy hell in the space of, I don't know, a few hours can really have a bad effect on your mental health.

    Speaking as a female, while I've never been knocked up [and hope fiercely that I remain this way], I do have hormonal fluctuations like other women. I also have 15 cousins. I've been punched in the face by more than one women about to give birth. If Padme hadn't gone through the physical exhaustion of birth, she might have lived.
  7. rhonderoo Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2002
    star 9
    4LOM posted on 5/31/05 9:45am

    And by the way, can anyone picture LEIA "losing the will to live" if Han Solo betrayed her? No way. Leia is a fiesty, tough, intelligent hero. Even after giving birth, Leia would have hunted Han down like a dog, and then kept on leading the rebellion.

    />

    Doing what? Fighting her husband? I don't think that would have made for a very good ending either. It works the way it is. It's supposed to be sad. It's another heinous thing that Anakin did that fuels the self-hatred he has as Darth Vader./>/>
  8. Surge38 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2005
    Lets not forget it isn't JUST the fact that Anakin is gone... Padme's sole role in life before Anakin was to serve in Democracy. She trained in legislative youth programs in childhood, went on a number of political peace missions, served as queen of Naboo, and served as a senator after that. They even made a point of saying her dedication to Democracy is what kept her from seeking happiness for herself, and love.

    Along comes Anakin, and she finally decides to take a shred of happiness for herself. She risks her entire life's work for a shot at love...

    Then, not only does anakin go insane, but Democracy, her life's WORK, is overthrown, and the galaxy is thrust into dictatorship.

    She risked the most important thing in her life for Love, and she loses BOTH.
  9. QuantumFoam Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2005
    star 1
    Her death was part of Anakin's final turn. For that reason, as farfetched as it may sound, I think that the Dark Side might have influenced her death. After all, the force of Plageus (who has control over the midichlorians of life) is probably still prevalent. Seems ridiculous, but it's on the line with Anakin being conceived by the dark side.

    Emotional stress and forced reclusion can alter any woman. She couldn't show herself to the diplomatic world, and thus, she was only fulfilling one role: the wife of Anakin. It is not very noble, but once she was pregnant she was stuck. There was no looking back. It was not necessarily a bad decision marrying Anakin, for she loved him, but it definitely changed her role in society.
  10. 1blackglove Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2004
    star 1
    Padme as a role model? Nope. It feels as though Lucas was trying to make a point with the Padme character. Good girls like bad boys. Guess we know what the payoff is, huh?

    Padme gives in to Anakin, who comes across as an obsessive stalker in Episode II. Anakin confesses that he killed women, and children. What does she do? She comforts him. Even when she finds out Anakin killed the younglings in ROTS she's still pleading him to put everything aside, and be a father. I'm sure Luke and Leia would have loved hearing stories how daddy used to kill kids back in the day. To top it off she loses the will to live even after seeing her children born.

    Lol, I don't have any kids at the moment, but I guarantee if I ever have a daughter she's watching the prequels. When ROTS is over I'm gonna tell her, "that's what happens when you date psychos".
  11. Opal Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2003
    star 4
    I thought Padme's character was terrible in ROTS. The suggestion that she simply can't live without Anakin (I don't care if it's a case of dying of a broken heart or symbiance) is awful.

    I'm also not particularly fond of the fact that she suggests running away together after learning that Anakin has turned dark and slaughtered children. She knows he's gone off the deep end before, he confesses that he's aquired "new powers" and she still doesn't urge him to take any kind of responsibility for his actions.

  12. Shikoma Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2005
    star 1
    The one thing that bugged me was the fact that she gave up on the will to live. She just had two kids for jolly's sake!

    Hello! The droid states that "medically, she is fine, but for reasons they can't explain, they are losing her. Then he goes on to state that she has lost the will to live" as though that's a reason they are losing her even though he just said that they can't explain why they are losing her. A big-time contradiction! I agree with the droid's first statement, they can't explain why they are losing her. The droid should never have mentioned anything about losing will to live if they have no explanation.
  13. Drac39 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 2002
    star 6
    I agree she had no will to live just as her kids were born...bull
  14. Panakas_Dawg Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2004
    star 5
    Her will to live was transferred *to* her kids. She died so they could live - and ultimately redeem Anakin (well, one of them did that atleast).

    Rememebr, folks - it's fiction. There are parables here.
  15. Reyla_Zingara Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2005
    star 1
    I've said it before, I'll say it again. I always thought the storyline was going to go as follows: Padme has the twins, Luke goes to Tatooine while Leia is sent with Padme to Alderaan. After a few years, Padme decides to go find Anakin and try to bring sense to him and bring out the good in him. This results at some point in Anakin killing her.

    PERFECT storyline for Padme. We got crap with ROTS.
  16. rhonderoo Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2002
    star 9
    This gets lost with folks around here, you know that, right Dawg? ;)[face_laugh]
  17. JediatNight Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2002
    star 1
    I thought the whole "lost the will to live" thing was just creative laziness on GL's part. Nothing that I saw of her character over 3 films would let me believe that she wouldn't want to stay alive and raise her children.
  18. Obi_Frans Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2003
    star 4
    There is nothing weak, dishonourable or shameful in Padme's death.

    Btw, i find it brilliantly hilarious that with Anakin as the "Luke" of the PT that we're debating whether, Padme, of all people is a good role model :p

    Nothing that I saw of her character over 3 films would let me believe that she wouldn't want to stay alive and raise her children.

    Did you ever think of the, highly, probable possibility that she wouldn't be able to raise her children, even had she lived?

    Think about it, the Emperor would, literally, hunt them down like dogs. And once Padme/Kenobi/Organa etc etc found out that Anakin was still alive (not too mention the reverse of him finding out) things would get even worse, look at how far he goes to even meet Luke in ESB.

    Padme would only be a danger for her children, she'd be an insurance that they couldn't live a normal life - whereas, with her death, they did live a "normal" life (considering that they're Skywalkers).

    IMO, one of the many factors of Padmes death was to protect her children. That's exactly why Obi-Wan dies in ANH, and exactly why Anakin dies in RotJ. That fits like Darth Vaders gloves with the Padme we know from Episode I/II.

    - O_F
  19. Carnage04 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2005
    star 5


    I think it's not entirely unconcievable, as her entire galaxy was turned on it's head. Everything she represented and faught for had just been destroyed. The one person that could have made things better had made them worse, probably as a direct result of HER actions in marrying him and having his children. She would have had to face life without democracy, without her husband, and with the nagging knowledge that she had a large part in this destruction.

    You can argue that things may have still gone that way, but in her eyes that would not matter. Things went as they went. Her story would have been difficult to live with up and above "Boo Hoo, my husband doesn't love me." She may have even felt that she DESERVED to die and did not deserve to be a mother to these children, friend of any she considered friends, or democratic leader.

    Carnage
  20. bitterted Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 18, 2002

    >Yes, it might have been the hormones. Having never been
    >pregnant, I don't know what that can do to you. But
    >still - was anyone else sorely dissapointed by the
    >reactions that Padmé had and the way she dealt with what
    >was going on?

    >(checked back a few days and didn't see a similar topic,
    >so away she goes!)

    Being that Padme was an expectant mother, her feelings and her worldview changed. Instead of wielding a blaster like she did in the first two movies, she's concerned about the state of the universe, not because of some nebulous representative responsibility she has to her home planet (like a queen or a senator), but because of concern for her own flesh and blood--the child in her belly.

    For the first time, Padme even question her own policy when it came to the war. ("Have you wondered if we're on the right side in this war?") If anything, her character was EVEN DEEPER in Sith than in prior chapters.

    In this regard, Padme's thoughtfulness, humanity, and much-more-immediate concern for her world makes her a richer and more rewarding character to watch. For the first time, we believe she cares at least as much as Princess Leia did.
  21. JediatNight Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2002
    star 1
    No, with the help of Yoda & Obi-Wan I think she would have been able to hide, as they did for 20 + years. Big place, a galaxy is.
  22. JediatNight Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2002
    star 1
    bitterted

    Padme even question her own policy when it came to the war.

    Yes she did and this is another argument for a 3 hour ROTS, because cutting the political scenes out made this remark seem unusual. Whereas in the novel, it fits perfectly.
  23. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    PERFECT storyline for Padme. We got crap with ROTS.

    Ah yes, good old Fanboy/girl Knows Best Syndrome.
  24. Reyla_Zingara Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2005
    star 1
    I think it's not entirely unconcievable, as her entire galaxy was turned on it's head. Everything she represented and faught for had just been destroyed.

    Well then, I guess the Rebellion and all that should have never formed, because everyone should have followed Padme's heroic example. She wasn't the only one deeply affected, others were able to continue on. The story is lame and Lucas in his heart knows this.
  25. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    Well then, I guess the Rebellion and all that should have never formed, because everyone should have followed Padme's heroic example. She wasn't the only one deeply affected, others were able to continue on. The story is lame and Lucas in his heart knows this.

    He does? You've spoken to him and he's told you this?

    Anyway...whoever said Padmé was a role model for girls in the first place?
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