Padmé as a role model for girls - uh, not so much

VJ, could you also include a pic when the "Queen" and Qui Gon reach the hangar to leave Naboo? Thanks. That's the scene that had everything in it. "We are brave your highness".

Edit: Ooh. Found part of it!

[image=http://www.geocities.com/we_are_brave/Padme_brave.jpg]

 

I agree...I think her character flattened gradually from TPM to ROTS, which of course has to do with the cheap lines she had to deliver. Padmé decays from a strong, wise, fighting queen to a love-drooling wannabe-politician (sorry, imo that line "this is how democracy dies..." wasn't enough to picture her as the great senator she was supposed to be)

Her acting wasn't too bad, but still...I think she could have got more out of some pathetic lines, considering her skills (it's not that I totally hate Padmé in ROTS... I have to admit that I found the silent seeing-across-the-skyline towards Anakin beautiful)

Anyways...the Padmé of TPM was the one I liked the most...Padmé in AOTC was a bit dissapointing because of the acting...Padmé in ROTS because of the dialogues

(btw...I adored Portman in "The Professional" )

 

One more question: Is that her Voice too when wearing the make-up?

Her ROTS lines are a bit over-the-top. She's the only one made to say things as if she's reading a comedy script mocking shakespear. "I heard whispers..", "Hold me like you did on Naboo; when there was nothing but our love", "Your breaking my heart", "Then love has blinded you?", "Only the wises can tell", "Smegal, my love", "Harc! Who goes there yon window shatterith"...

It's like Alfred the butler having a conversation with Shaggy.

 

I agree. In AotC she had some lines that could have been delivered with real presence and established a strong character for her, but she blew it on the delivery. "I don't need more protection, I need answers," should have made her out to be a brave person who can't be deterred from what she wants to do by threats, but the meaning of the line is lost because she mumbles it so badly.

I rather liked her delivery of her one serious line in RotS, as it happens. It was a poignant line, and her voice had just the right combination of seriousness and bitterness in it. I could almost remember TPM Padme just from watching that Senate scene. Unfortunately, it was Lucas's choice to cut every other scene in which she did something admirable, so her RotS character ends up looking like some lovestruck teenager whose only purpose is to kiss Anakin, act afraid, and then die of her own weakness.

I was musing the other night it's kind of disturbing how anti-feminist Lucas is (and indeed most filmmakers, writers, and other storytellers along with him). We still have these archetypes floating around that the only purpose of women is to fall in love and nourish the men in their lives. Remind me how many major female characters Star Wars has had who did not end up falling madly in love with one of the men. Remind me how many female characters we have in almost any popular story or film who isn't there to fall in love, in fact. Stories about men usually focus on the men doing their own thing, going on adventures, or discovering themselves (as Luke and Anakin do), but women are seldom allowed the same character arc.

Edit:

One question; I keep reading the "Assumption" that Padme selfishly just "gave up".
Please quote me where it is that you get that idea? I would like I to know.

The droid didn't just say he couldn't explain why Padme was dying. He also said she had lost the will to live. I consider that weakness because Padme isn't exactly Anne Frank, living in a concentration camp half-starved, worked half to death, and probably immune system deficient. The Republic had suffered a serious setback, but that should have been all the more reason for her to want to continue to fight. She'd also spent years saying she would love to have children, so one would think giving birth would give her something to live for. It does for most mothers unless they're suffering from severe post-partum depression, and even that wouldn't explain a mysterious death immediately after labor.

 

Steller post!

I pondered if old George had it in for ladies but never decided to bring it up. If he does, I think it's subconcious or coincidental. He does have girls of his own and I'm sure he respects and loves them the same as his Son.

Your comments on how the guys are always on adventures and the girls are always supporting them is funny in contrast to my own gripe. I get sick of the writers always having to force a love-interest into every movie. DANG! He doesn't have to fall in love or let a Women be the reason he's doing what he's doing. I hate that. When I saw BATMAN carrying a girl on the poster and screaming out her name in the trailor I was disgusted. Even the dark BATMAN film is going to reduce the hero by weakening him with a love-interest. Good news; Bruce Wayne turned off the girl that liked him with his dark ways. Kewl! Still, I would let some films go minus the love-interest. Give the guy some backbone. Not every movie-going dude is so desperate that he has to have some miscast cutie-pie in the film to hold his attention. Just make the film good.

Rant over.

 

Heh. That's also true. It seems our culture has gotten so obsessed with romantic love that it can't come up with a good story without including some.

 

You know, I don't think Padme was ever intended to be a role model. The role models in this story are Luke and Leia. Just like Luke becomes the Jedi that Anakin should have been, Leia becomes a more balanced version of her mother. Padme had a lot of virtues but she had flaws that led to poor choices.

 

One more question: Is that her Voice too when wearing the make-up?

Yes, but it's reported that her voice was lowered a bit in pitch during post-production.

 

Oh. Hhhmm. I don't what to think about that. Oh well, the result is cool. I like when she says: "We will see."

You nailed it, km12. It's not a story of just how Anakin makes a great mistake, but how him and Padme failed to do the right things. The twins represent the victory and redemption in the next half.

 

You can't blame Pad'me (or Natalie Portman) 4 the fact of neither of them had anything 2 do with writing the script. Some of her reactions were bad but what would u dof if ur husband killed a bunch of people???

 

Some of her reactions were bad but what would u dof if ur husband killed a bunch of people???

Put my foot in his A@# thats one way to handle the situation.

 

Yes, it does seem that mainstream movies tend to feel that they have to have a female character put in to prove to the audience that the male lead is straight.

We're so used to seeing people kiss in movies that they have no emotional pull or strength anymore.

WHY CAN'T THERE BE FEMALE SUPPORTING CHARACTERS WHO DON'T FALL IN LOVE?

...I'm not referring to Padme here, so I'm off topic, sorry.

 

I want to know who died and made you all the critics with the final say. I don't recall reading any reviews that said Padme was a failure at being a girl's role model. I think you should look a person's full body of work to deliver final judgment on them. She saved her people at age 14, she tried valiantly to save the galaxy she loved, she was still fighting to save the Republic even after it was clear to everyone that it was doomed. She did all of this as a teenager and 20-year old.

Also, you can't call it a fatal flaw that she fell in love with Anakin, because everyone falls in love during their lives and by the end of AOTC this seemed genuine. She was just unfortunate that she lived during the time of the most evil being ever, Emperor Palpatine, because he corrupted Anakin. If it hadn't been for Palpatine, Anakin would have become a great Jedi.

Padme was a wonderful role model for girls because she showed that inner strength can help you persevere.

Now I know everyone else is all like "What about her just giving up." but her heart was ripped out and stepped on by the love of her life, her whole body of work was destroyed, and she dealt with these emotional events while going through an emotional pregnancy.

And if George says so then you can die of broken heart.

I believe Padme lost the will to live because it seemed as though her soul was torn apart by Anakin...and as Dex would say "Droids can't tell the difference between knowledge and wisdom." Padme knew what she was doing, Anakin would've found her and the children would've become property of Palpatine. So it was Padme who ultimately saved the galaxy. A perfect role model for girls. She made the ultimate sacrifice.

 

Rewatching the Star Wars films recently, I found it interesting how the new films reframed the old ones: They now seem primarily concerned with the tragedy of Darth Vader, rather than the triumph of the Rebels.

"Yeah, I made a series of movies that was about one thing: Darth Vader. Originally, people thought it was all about Luke. The early films are about Luke redeeming his father, so Luke's the focus. But it's also about Princess Leia and her struggle to re-establish the Republic, which is what her mother was doing. So it's really about mothers and daughters and fathers and sons."

So now, instead of all these surprises that aren't actually surprises, when you get back to Episode IV, as soon as Darth Vader walks through that door, and you see Princess Leia with R2, you're going to say, "Oh, my God, that's his daughter. Are they gonna find out?" And you get through the whole first movie and nobody figures anything out. The figuring-out part is mostly done off-screen. The first three episodes are a tragedy, and the second three go slightly goofy, but they're inspirational: Even the worst, most evil people find compassion. Darth Vader has compassion for his children, and that's ultimately what children are for."

Often, in classical tragedies, there's a final moment when the scales fall from the hero's eyes.

"Well, in real Greek tragedies, the kids are usually the problem. They're the ones that are killing the parents, but this is more uplifting: It's up to one generation to fix the sins of the last generation."

--George Lucas, The Cult Of Darth Vader; Rolling Stone Interview, 2005.

 

Then it is true. The twins are playing clean-up for their parents horrible mistakes. Not just Anakin's. They both screw up for the sake of each other and their infatuated love-affair. What makes this even more powerful in the end is that they cared more about each other than their children who eventually make things right. Through caring.

 

When all was said and done I think Padme was just tired of fighting.
She fought for the Republic for most of her life. She was a teenaged girl contending with the Seperatist movement and the Clone wars(she fought in the clone wars AND battled within the Senate to end them). Padme was the target of assassination attempts, and had to keep one eye open at all times. This is a woman who, at age 14, was the queen of an entire planet. She had to take care of herself and millions of others, whilst dealing with The Lord Of The Sith himself. And if that isn't enough she had to deal with her dangerously unstable Husband, whose views were quite seperate(pun totally intended). To top that off she had a baby(s)on the way...so you know she was hormonal.

Maybe witnessing the love of her life transform into a malevolent brute, hellbent on the destruction of an institution she fought to construct, drove her over the edge? Maybe she was just tired of fighting? Afterall, she gave her best fight and look what happened? Palpatine won out and turned the Republic into a dictatorship.
As someone said, Padme WAS The galactic Republic. She represented and embodied everything it stood for: beauty, grace, tolerance, democracy and all that other good stuff.
I think Padme was a metaphor for The Republic myself.

Infact, the scene where Anakin tried to end her life could have been a metaphor for the Empire crushing the Republic? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

 

Darth_Gorman, DarthOthello, .

--MissPadme

 

Absolutely. You two nailed it. Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

I think its interesting to note that Padme's win in the battle of Naboo put Palpatine into power. She believed that "peace and justice" (as told by Palps) would return, but it was opposite. All this past, certainly took its toll on her. But with the birth of the children, a new "spirit" could emerge, but without her as her husband unfortunately supported the "virus" Palpatine, he could not then save her to keep the Darkside forever in him. She knew she had to go, but the children were her hope. Palpatine could never probably understand that, if he knew how she died, just like he couldn't understand when Vader saved his son.

Padme was the embodiment of sacrifice. A sacrifice Obi Wan gave and eventually Anakin.

 

Nice Job. I concur.

Padme is the loyal wife - symbol of liberty, mother of the future hope of the Galaxy who has been falsy accused of betrayal and choked by her husband who has been deceived by his new Master.

 

You can't blame Pad'me (or Natalie Portman) 4 the fact of neither of them had anything 2 do with writing the script. Some of her reactions were bad but what would u dof if ur husband killed a bunch of people???

1. Leave him. Immediately. Protect your unborn children and run. It's foolish to go to him for reassurance and endanger both oneself and the kids. I can understand that Padme didn't want to believe the things Obi-Wan was telling her at first, but then she should have looked for another source of information before rushing off to Mustafar.

2. Better yet, don't marry him in the first place. Padme knew Anakin had slaughtered defenseless Tusken children before she married him. If that's not a warning sign for a future abusive husband, I don't know what is. (Besides, I thought Padme was an upstanding person who cared about the lives of innocent children, even if they were of another race. Apparently all the moral values she had in TPM got thrown on the fireplace as soon as she became infatuated with a crazy guy! "No, I see nothing wrong with marrying a Jedi lightsaber murderer.")

It is not a virtue to be loyal to a husband who does things like what Anakin has done. Is our culture still so entangled in eighteenth century religious revival values that we believe the primary purpose of a woman is to be a supportive and nourishing wife, even if her husband is a criminal and starting to look borderline psychotic? A woman's responsibility is to take care of herself (and her children) first, and worry about the relationship later. One's sense of self should not be deprioritized in favor of any relationship. Men don't do it, so why should women?

 

Why do we insist on saying she is meant to be a role-model for girls?

 

MARA

1. GEORGE LUCAS (lacks common sense, period.)

2. GEORGE LUCAS (lacks common sense, period.)

he doesn't even understand his own movies anymore.

found some quotes where he says vader is redeemed, found some others that say he can't be redeemed.

THE POWER HAS GONE TO HIS HEAD!!!!!!!!!

lucas is a gonner, definite vegetable.

HA!!!

 

I was listening to the radio today and heard a song that completely symbolizes Padme's position in RotS. The song is called "Behind These Hazel Eyes" by Kelly Clarkson. In this song there are many lines that show the emotions running through Padme when she learns of Anakin going to the Dark Side through her death.

"Behind These Hazel Eyes"
Seems like just yesterday
You were a part of me
I used to stand so tall
I used to be so strong
Your arms around me tight
Everything, it felt so right
Unbreakable, like nothin' could go wrong
Now I can't breathe
No, I can't sleep
I'm barely hanging on

Here I am, once again
I'm torn into pieces
Can't deny it, can't pretend
Just thought you were the one
Broken up, deep inside
But you won't get to see the tears I cry
Behind these hazel eyes

I told you everything
Opened up and let you in
You made me feel alright
For once in my life
Now all that's left of me
Is what I pretend to be
So together, but so broken up inside
'Cause I can't breathe
No, I can't sleep
I'm barely hangin' on

Here I am, once again
I'm torn into pieces
Can't deny it, can't pretend
Just thought you were the one
Broken up, deep inside
But you won't get to see the tears I cry
Behind these hazel eyes

Swallow me then spit me out
For hating you, I blame myself
Seeing you it kills me now
No, I don't cry on the outside
Anymore...

Here I am, once again
I'm torn into pieces
Can't deny it, can't pretend
Just thought you were the one
Broken up, deep inside
But you won't get to see the tears I cry
Behind these hazel eyes

Here I am, once again
I'm torn into pieces
Can't deny it, can't pretend
Just thought you were the one
Broken up, deep inside
But you won't get to see the tears I cry
Behind these hazel eyes

I just feel this song perfectly describes Padme's emotions and why she seems to have lost her role model-like characteristics. Believe me she didn't, Anakin destroyed her psychologically and spiritually. She would have never been the same person if she had lived.
HE CHOKED HER FOR GOD'S SAKES!

 

Just look at the 2nd line of my signature.