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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Padmé as a role model for girls - uh, not so much

Discussion in 'Archive: Revenge of the Sith' started by ~ô¿ô~, May 31, 2005.

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  1. jediknightruthie

    jediknightruthie Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jul 12, 2005

    U have some very good points. But remember she loved him very much! I know she's definately not my role model.
     
  2. Dark Lady Mara

    Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 19, 1999
    I agree with you, she did, but I think her mistake lay therein. It's not a bad thing to fall in love. It's not even a bad thing to fall in love with someone hastily and possibly make a mistake with them. But it is bad to become so blinded by that love that you're unable to see the warning signs and know the relationship has gone sour or even dangerous.

    It's horribly sad to me that someone who started out the PT as such a brave, compassionate, and intelligent person had turned into a stereotypical battered wife by trilogy's end. Her inner strength began to slowly drip away when Anakin came back into her life in AotC, and she did nothing to stop it until she was eventually reduced to the person who said "I know he choked me, but that doesn't make him a bad person. He just does it because he loves me!" Those aren't noble words to die by. There are similar things being said by any number of abused wives at this very moment. Those women aren't heroes; they're victims who need help finding the strength to get away from abusers. :(

    Padme's the opposite of a role model, really. She's a tragic figure from the same mold as some of the women in Shakespeare who are destroyed because of the men in their lives.
     
  3. DARTHCLANDESTINE

    DARTHCLANDESTINE Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 17, 2005
    who need help finding the strength to get away from abusers

    yes, but it was clear Palpatine was a bad influence on him. Her mistake was not able to realize Palps was a crook.
     
  4. DarthOthello

    DarthOthello Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jun 14, 2005
    I think a "Defenseless" Tusken Raider is sorta an oxymoron.
    The Tusken Raiders are a hideous race of murderous creatures that deserve to die(In my honest opinion). They are the epitome of evil and attack without provocation. I know if they had killed my mother, in that fashion, I would go all Darth Vader on them too.

    Perhaps that is what Padme was thinking when Anakin confessed to slaughtering the raiders? Revenge isn't right, but one can understand the compulsion to avenge someone that you love.

    Furthermore, it may not be "virtuous" to stay in a relationship with someone that has plunged off the deep end...However, acting like it isn't realistic for her character is naive. There are millions of women in abusive relationships who believe that their crazy husbands might get better. Perhaps Padme was the same way? Perhaps she saw him as the same little boy that adored her when they first met, and she clung to that hope...Infact, it was that very same inkling of hope that defeated Darth Sidious in Return Of The Jedi. Had Luke not believed there was good in his father then the Empire might still be standing.
    So is Luke less of a hero because he allowed himself to be torchered with electricity, hoping that Vader would have a change of heart?
    Totally different example but the same principle applies.

    Padme is no less of a heroine simply because love became her vice. She fought until she could fight no more. I have even MORE respect for Padme seeing as, even on her death bed, she believed that Anakin could be redeemed.

     
  5. DarthOthello

    DarthOthello Jedi Youngling

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    Jun 14, 2005
    Lastly, why is anyone looking to Padme as a role model? This is a tragic tale. She wasn't supposed to be a role model. So do we hate Juliet just because she committed suicide? Do we think Desdemona was weak because her husband choked her to death?
    Padme was not meant to be a role model. She was a tragic heroine, no more no less.

    ((Padme's the opposite of a role model, really. She's a tragic figure from the same mold as some of the women in Shakespeare who are destroyed because of the men in their lives.))

    Exactly...while factoring that the men in their lives were also destroyed, LIKE Darth Vader and Padme.

    The movie was not meant to have a happy ending.

    Forgive me, but I just think some of the judgements of Padme are overly critical and harsh.
    George Lucas promised a dark story and he delivered.
     
  6. Darth_Gorman

    Darth_Gorman Jedi Youngling

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    Jun 27, 2005
    I think I might have to agree with DarhtOthello. Even though she might not even have been supposed to be a role model she was still a tragic, beautiful character.

    However, I still believe Padme epitomized the strength and will of the democracy-favoring people in the prequels. (Bail Organa, Yoda, Obi-wan...even Jar Jar)
     
  7. MissPadme

    MissPadme Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 9, 1998
    Anakin was hardly a wife beater who came home every night, calling Padmé a fat ho and smacking her if she didn't bring his beer fast enough. He turned on her only once and that was a) after he had become Darth Vader and b) because he thought Padmé betrayed him. It's not a justification of his actions, but he was not the same guy anymore at that point. The Dark Side had corrupted him to the point where he was a danger even to those he cared about. (Obi-Wan's "awkward" appearance at the wrong moment didn't help either.) But she also realized he was conflicted and he was reachable.

    In any case, Luke had fewer reasons to try and save Vader, and up until the end, Vader wasn't exactly father of the year. Yet he showed Vader compassion, even as Palpatine dismissed it as a weakness, and while it nearly cost Luke his life, it worked. Padmé knew it all along.

    --MissPadme

     
  8. Achilles_of_Edmonton

    Achilles_of_Edmonton Jedi Youngling star 4

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    May 13, 2005
    If they were going to completely redo the OT they should cast Matt Damon as Luke Skywalker.
     
  9. NeoBaggins

    NeoBaggins Jedi Master star 5

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    Oct 28, 2003

    I think Lucas was fed up with Portman's aparent lack of enthusiasm with her role and decreased the character to fit the actresses demeanor. Having her choked was probably inserted to make George giggle in private.

    You never know.
     
  10. Achilles_of_Edmonton

    Achilles_of_Edmonton Jedi Youngling star 4

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    May 13, 2005
    He should have force choked Matt Damon. That would have been even funnier. Force choking Padme for kicks isn't nearly as funny as force choking Jar Jar.
     
  11. lovelucas

    lovelucas Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 19, 2004
    you do never know... actually george has been quoted from many as deciding to focus on the fall of anakin; not to punish natalie but to complete the story with the emphasis where it needed to be. i do regret the elimination of two scenes: padme and the delegation of 2000 planning the start of the rebellion that her daughter will continue many years later and the recognition by yoda that for nearly 900 years he has been wrong and qui gon was right all along. the implication is there: attempts will be made to correct his mistake via obi wan to luke.
     
  12. Orionsangel

    Orionsangel Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Feb 11, 2004
    Padme is telling young girls, when they're older and give birth to kids, to give up on life and not live for your children. to whimp out over some whiney dork with a lightsaber.
     
  13. DARTHCLANDESTINE

    DARTHCLANDESTINE Jedi Youngling star 3

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    May 17, 2005
    Padme is telling young girls, when they're older and give birth to kids, to give up on life and not live for your children. to whimp out over some whiney dork with a lightsaber.

    Yes, all young girls fight for justice and peace, only to see it collapse because they realize that they with their spouse had a part to do with it breaking apart ;)

     
  14. Orionsangel

    Orionsangel Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 11, 2004
    "What kinda talk is that?" That's still no excuse to abandon your children. They're the number 1 priority once they're born.
     
  15. NeoBaggins

    NeoBaggins Jedi Master star 5

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    Oct 28, 2003

    You see peace and justice collapse around you and realize that your spouse will help forward that cause. On top of that, you have just given birth to twins. It is not illogical that you may not be able to carry on. This is of course if you are unforgivabley weak, selfish, and cowardly. In that case, you should die, and let someone brave and competent have the children before you contaminate them too.
     
  16. Orionsangel

    Orionsangel Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Feb 11, 2004
    Bah! cop out, there are homeless women that care more about their children than Padme. If Lucas had just done internal bleeding around the neck area. It would have been more believable.

    I'll never turn to your point of view. You've lost Neobaggins. I am a realist like my father before me.
     
  17. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    Well, Lucas didn't have much story for Padme to begin with, before the PT. Much of it he had to reuse from the earlier drafts of ANH. Her leadership qualities were there to connect her to Leia, so that we can see where she gets her attitude from. Lucas did have a solo arc for Padme in ROTS, but it was cut to focus more on Anakin's fall.

    As to seeming weak, I must point out that she was emotionally invested. Too much this time. More than she had ever allowed herself to be. Unfortuately, she loved too much and was devestated by her husband's betrayal and her role in the fall of democracy. Thus it falls to Leia to set things right, by redeeming her mother's mistakes.
     
  18. jediknightruthie

    jediknightruthie Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jul 12, 2005
    She may not have much of a story, but how was she to know her husband was killing people and how was she suppose to get away?
     
  19. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    Not everyone feels the way most mothers do for their children. There are mothers who place themselves over their children, time and again.
     
  20. NeoBaggins

    NeoBaggins Jedi Master star 5

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    Oct 28, 2003
    Take the droids "will to live" line out, give Padme an actual physical threat to her life, then have her die, but not before fighting to live for her Children. Everything makes sense, her character comes full circle to when she had a spine, the scene is now dramatic, and the story remains on the same path.

    Oh well.
     
  21. FRANKTHERABBIT

    FRANKTHERABBIT Jedi Padawan star 4

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    May 31, 2004
    Padme's character was greatly inconsistent and not at all convincing in ROTS. Her point of view was so inconsequential and her character's portrayal was weak and cardboard.

    She went from being one of the more interesting characters in TPM, to being one of the least interesting characters of the entire SW saga. Glad she died - she became ineffectual and weakly-acted.

    She pretty much stood by when Anakin became evil, turned a blind eye to the political goings-on, and she dies in the most weakly-written, way possible - losing the will to live. Not the Padme we were introduced to in Episodes I and II - that Padme was a fighter, and I don't buy any argument that suggests she is blinded by love, heart-broken by Anakin, or oblivious to the events going on around her.

    Luke and Leia were better off not knowing what an inconsistent moron their mother was...

    talk about being whipped by Anakin...

    :)

    Hi NeoBaggins! Hows things? :)
     
  22. NeoBaggins

    NeoBaggins Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2003

    Hey, what's up, FRANK.:)

    I saw you had posted so I came back in to see what you had to say. And I agree fully.

    Who would have thought that Luke and Liea's Mother would be the most uninteresting and ill-acted character of the entire saga. She was probably better off having a near nonexistent role to begin with. Since it looks like she is a key factor from TPM and some of AOTC, it stands out like red boots on a Banana when you see her reduced to nothing in ROTS.

    That one leg guy who looks like Fred Flintstone on a bender is more interesting to watch than her. What's his name, Cleigg?

     
  23. lovelucas

    lovelucas Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 19, 2004
    padme has a huge amount of guilt in the loss of anakin to the dark side - he has told her he's doing it all for her (and we know that's not the entire truth)but it's here, on mustafar that she finally realizes how far gone anakin really is - she missed all those cues, as everyone else did. when he told her he was "lost" it was a true cry for help. padme is all about sacrifices made for the greater good - her entire life before anakin was lived with the intention of working for the good of others in the form of a repulic she's always believed in. now the republic is gone - the jedi are soon to be gone. she still believes there is time to convince anakin to return to the goodness still in him. when that hope is rejected so is she. but she can save her children. she makes the sacrifice to keep them hidden from the new empire and the sith... she makes the ultimate sacifice. no, she is not the same padme from TPM or AotC - she's had to change with the situation and she is limited by her condition and the bounty still on her head - yet she is still courageous in helping to form the committee of 2000. her ideals continue to live even though she doesn't. but luke and leia will now be safe.
     
  24. QuiGonHrafn

    QuiGonHrafn Jedi Grand Master star 3

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    May 25, 2002
    "She pretty much stood by when Anakin became evil, turned a blind eye to the political goings-on, and she dies in the most weakly-written, way possible - losing the will to live. Not the Padme we were introduced to in Episodes I and II - that Padme was a fighter, and I don't buy any argument that suggests she is blinded by love, heart-broken by Anakin, or oblivious to the events going on around her".



    I suppose that is your view but I totally disagree. When did she stand by him when he became evil? He hadn't turned evil when he killed the tusken raiders and in no way does she stand by him when he has turned evil in SITH. After all, that is the reson Vader force-chokes her - she made it clear she wasn't going to stand by him after he turned evil. The thought never came into her mind although she never should have said "to be angry is human" (or something like that) in CLONES. That of course in Anakin's mind may have resulted in him thinking she would accept him even after all the things he does in SITH.
    And I think her death is fine and well written - not to mention the obvious link between Luke and Padmé (both believing there was still good in him and telling that to Obi Wan). And I also disagree to the poster who said Padmé didn't do anything politaclly since TPM. After all it was she who was against the creation of the army (and the reason Palpatine needed to get her out of Coruscant. She was that important and influential in the Senate) although she doesn't do much in SITH - that is only because the rebellion scenes were cut if you read the novel/screenplay, you know what her role was supposed to be.
    Overall Padmé is a great tragic character but is she meant to be a role model? Yes - in TPM but not in the other films. The other two films deal with her and especially Anakin's downfall. They make decision they shouldn't and suffer the consequences of their actions (George Lucas said similar words in one of the featurettes on the CLONES DVD). That is not someone who is suppose to be a role model.


     
  25. NeoBaggins

    NeoBaggins Jedi Master star 5

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    Oct 28, 2003

    I can't buy the "sacrifice" deal. She could have tried to live to see that her children make it to safety. If she thought she would endanger them, she didn't have to be around them. The core of all this is that she didn't fight to live for them. She didn't consider their fate. A Mothers natural instincts would be to survive and protect her young. It is that way with humans as it is with animals. A Mother isn't detoured from the love of her children because of imperial plots and the loss of a husband gained through a rushed marriage. None of this should be enough to make her roll over and die. She was primed for such political tragedies and treason. Why would she be so shocked now, and to death no less. She practically fell in love with Anakin over night and it oblitorated her judgment then on. She becomes dingy and clingy.

    Obi Wan should have been disgusted in that operating room. She believes that there is still good in Anakin, yet she STILL hasn't a will to live. Lucas turned her character into a baby machine. They should have shot her and the operating table out of the garbage hatch and into the asteroid field.
     
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