Padmé as a role model for girls - uh, not so much

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by ~ô¿ô~, May 31, 2005.

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  1. Lyvia Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2005
    star 2
    She did not stick around to give birth to the twins because there was no reason for her to check out. The woman has no reason to just die like she did. The loosing the will to live thing should have been cut out because it just shows how Lucas wrote off the Padme character. If she really was going to stick around so her children could live she should have stuck it out for another 2 months because she wasnt to term and premature babies could easily have died. She was not stickign around to give birth the medics on that planet had to hurry and get the babies outbecause she was already bailing for no reason. Why the heck does Padme have to be an idiot because Anakin is one? Padme could have gone down with some balls if Lucas had just given it some thought. And Padme was built as a role model from the beginning because she was a smaller younger copy of Leia. Yes her death had to be tragic but the way Lucas did it makes it pathetic not tragic.
  2. ObiWanIsTheOne Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2005
    star 2
    What did you want Padme to do, go and fight Anakin with a lightsaber until he cut her down?

    *Padme shoves Obi-Wan to the floor and grabs his lightsaber*

    "What the-"

    *She ignites it and faces Anakin*

    "I wouldn't be in character if I didn't try to fight, evne though I'm 9 months pregnant and it isn't in my nature to get into stupid pointless fights, but the fans..."

    *Does a triple back flip over Anakin.*

    Ah yes...the much...BETTER and "correct" depiction of Padme.
  3. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Just cause Padme was a strong character in the beginning, doesn't mean that Lucas was intentionally making her a role model. He's making a point that she changed because her relationhip with Anakin was a bad idea. She's not an idiot. She's a woman who has lost everything and not even the prospects of having children can save her. She has become like Anakin. Selfish. It separates her from Leia.
  4. Greedo_forever Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2005
    star 3
    Did you even WATCH the movie? People do drastic and sometimes foolish things when the are utterly crushed emotionally. Have you ever been REALLY depressed? Ever have anyone DIE on you? Some pretty terrible things happened to her character. Yes, her reactions were over the top, but that is what Star Wars is: over the top.

    Tragedy involves PATHOS to the extreme. The word "Pathetic" derives specifically from that word. So, you are right, it WAS pathetic, but not in the way you use the word, exactly.
  5. SHAD0W-JEDI Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 3

    Greedo:

    What is interesting about your post, I think, is that it touches on two different things...

    (1) Was Padme a "role model"....
    (2) Was she MEANT to be a "role model"...

    There are many people on this Board, many SW fans in general, who think that Padme is an admirable character, and that her romance with Anakin is tragic not in the sense that it is a "bad thing", or that Anakin is a bad choice for her, or that they are bad together... but in the sense that those nasty Jedi and their rules really spoiled a good thing for everyone. They think it is "romantic" that Padme "gives in" and indulges in her relationship with Anakin, despite realizing, in AOTC, that no good is likely to come from this, for either of them. They see her as almost wholly admirable, and, therefore, yes, a role model of sorts. A strong, smart woman who falls in love, deeply, and who has a passionate "forbidden romance".

    As I noted in my earlier post, I see all of that VERY differently. I think Padme has many great qualities, and has had a hard life (despite her being raised with great wealth and having wielded great power - she had enormous responsibility thrust upon her at an early age!), and she is smart enough and moral enough to KNOW that a romance between her and Anakin is a terrible idea... but she succumbs to temptation nonetheless. I have a harder time putting any sort of positive spin on her rationalizing of the Tusken slaughter, but that has been well thrashed out in any number of threads, so I will not go into it here. If I had to "summarize" my view of Padme, it would be that she is a smart, savvy young woman of great courage who makes some HUGE mistakes when it comes to her dealings with Anakin... and those mistakes have terrible consequences for the SW galaxy. If someone wanted to define her as a tragic heroine in the old sense of that term, I would have no argument with that. But I WOULD argue with those who want to focus on her admitted good qualities, overlook her dangerous failings, and paint her as a wholly admirable, or positive character.

    I DO think Lucas made a misstep with the whole "lost her will to live" thing. He has every right to portray Padme that way, but I think, in doing so, he made it even harder to view the character in a generally positive way. She believes her lover has much good in him and can still be redeemed, she knows she is giving birth to two young children who arguably will need her help in some very dark times, she knows (on a less directly personal level) that the Republic is teetering on the edge of disaster.... and she just gives up? Can't summon the will to live? I am sorry, that, to me, is a hard sell. If she had said to Obi Wan "You were right... the Anakin I knew is gone... he HAS gone over to the Dark Side... protect my children, please..." and died... well, I could have seen it, perhaps. Crushed by the "realization" that she had been wrong all along (wrongly, perhaps, given Luke's eventual turning of Vader!), she can't bear it and dies. But... believing Anakin can still be redeemed? Just having given birth to his children? She just can't find reason to hang on?

    What makes this especially unfortunate, I think, is that Padme, in ROTS, was finally allowed to show some of the moral and practical strength that was suggested in TPM and AOTC. In ROTS, she LOVES Anakin, but she clearly begins to see that he IS being seduced by his lust for control and power, giving in to his pride, etc. I think ROTS did quite a bit to "redeem" her for her earlier weaknesses and rationalizations. But GL kinda pulled the rug out from under her with her death scene..IMHO.

    SO...

    Guess what I am saying in my long-winded way is that there ARE those who think Padme IS a "role model", and the argument would be more with them than with those who see her as a "tragic" (and thus flawed" heroine...

    Shadow

    PS - A ways back, someone said that NO ONE fares well in ROTS. I have to disagree. I think Obi Wan gained a great deal of "gravitas" because of ROTS. In him, we see the Jedi at their best. I th
  6. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    I think the genesis behind her saying that there is still good in Anakin, comes from the fact that as she's dying, her last words are an epiphany that she has, which is that he is still good. She has forgiven him for what he has done. She has the compassion to forgive Anakin for his evil ways. Just as Luke has that same compassion, years later.
  7. TrueJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 5
    I think Padme's transformation in ROTS was not only necessary to the continuity of the OT but also brilliant in the writing of ROTS. Thank you, George.
  8. Lyvia Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2005
    star 2
    And I will say this again THE WOMAN HAS NO REASON TO BE DEPRESSED. She hasnt lost nearly as much as Obi Wan, Yoda, Luke, or Leia did yet they stuck around when the going got tough. Even if someone is really depressed and they decide to check out it is for a reason SHE HAD NO REASON! She did not die to save her children, she did not die by bringing them into the world, she did not die of a broken heart! That is the main problem, she dies for no reason and gives up for no reason. Padme suffered from nothing more than her husband turning out to be an idiot which she should have already known. Everyone else in this saga fights while Padme just dies. Everyone else in this saga actually has a reason for dying and its not some last ditch effort to erase her like she never existed. As someone who has been depressed and has been around many depressed people THEY DONT DIE FOR NO REASON IN 5MINUTES! You dont become suicidal in 5minutes! If she had killed herself it would have been better slightly.
    She is not a good mother
    She is not a good role model
    Yes she was suppose to be a role model stop trying to pretend the Padme of the first 2 movies wasnt suppose to be a role model
    SHe gives up on life for no reason and leaves others to clean up her mess.
    If Lucas was going to write off the Padme character he should have just had her be a prostitute who Anakin had a fling with.
  9. PMT99 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2000
    star 4
    NO REASON? Padme has just witnessed Anakin turn evil and tried to kill her, the Republic which she has stood for has fallen into the crapper, and she just found out that the man she elected Supreme Chancellor is a Sith Lord who has been behind everything including the invasion of her home planet, the death threats on her life, and her husband turning evil.

    Padme has EVERY reason to be depressed.
  10. CJedi72 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2005
    star 4


    Now we'll just wait for the ROTJ SE in 2007:

    Luke: Leia, do you remember your mother, your real mother?

    Leia: No.

    Now we have continuity...
  11. Greedo_forever Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2005
    star 3
    That's over simplifying it.

    If it torments you so much, just put your fingers in your ears at the part where the medical droid informs the audience "that she's given up the will to live" and mentally replace it with "she is dying from physical and emotional trauma".
  12. RebelScum77 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2003
    star 6
    I disagree with you here. Obi-Wan, while doing some pretty difficult things in the face of tragedy, and clearly the hero, also showed himself to partially blame himself for letting his love of Anakin blind him to what was really happening. Many people think Yoda gave terrible advice to Anakin, he tried to bring out the Sith by leaving Coruscant, a plan which backfired, and then he failed to kill Sidious later on. Alot of people think Mace was a jerk and did the totally wrong thing by treating Anakin with disdain, and not allowing him to come arrest Sidious, which could have given the whole thing a different outcome. Bail is the only one who comes through pretty much unscathed. But this is all Lucas' intent, the Jedi are not without blame in this whole thing, though that's as hard for some people to swallow as Padme losing the will to live. But the point is that everything we thought we knew in TPM gets turned upside down, characters act in extraordinary ways, for good or evil. The untouchable Jedi crumble from within, the strong-willed Senator's world completely and horrifyingly blows up in her face, and the worse part is that she's to blame for some of it. So the Jedi fall, and Padme dies. The Galaxy that everyone thought existed actually never did.
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