Padmé as a role model for girls - uh, not so much

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by ~ô¿ô~, May 31, 2005.

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  1. Jumpman Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2003
    star 4
    I aay we make Ewok's post a commandment when it comes this issue. It's just too sound.
  2. EwokThatCried Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2003
    star 4
    Yeah, well the cause of her death was something I struggled with initially until I paid closer attention to her withdrawal from Anakin on Mustafar. It seems pretty clear she realized that her own life was now linked to Anakin's descent into darkness and in an attempt to save him, she removed herself from the equation.

    I think this was the bravest move Padme made, she sacrificed herself for the greater good... she let go of her attachment to everything she loved in order to save the one she loved... something Anakin could not do.

    Thanks for the props, peeps!
  3. BIG_BEN Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2002
    star 3
    If GL had been as eloquent in his presentation of Padme's death as Ewok's explanation of it, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

    Although I loved the movie, I thought that her death was one of the weakest bits in terms of how it was presented.
  4. DarthHomer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2000
    star 5
    I've said it before, I'll say it again. I always thought the storyline was going to go as follows: Padme has the twins, Luke goes to Tatooine while Leia is sent with Padme to Alderaan. After a few years, Padme decides to go find Anakin and try to bring sense to him and bring out the good in him. This results at some point in Anakin killing her.

    PERFECT storyline for Padme. We got crap with ROTS.


    How exactly would that have been shown in the film? A "three years later" epilogue wouldn't have worked. Padme's death needed to be shown in the film, not left to EU.
  5. Darthette Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2003
    star 5
    I can't imagine how I'd feel to find that someone had commited unspeakably horrific acts because of me, and that in some way these acts had also hastened the destruction of a system I had worked so hard for all my life. It would be devestating.
  6. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    I think this was the bravest move Padme made, she sacrificed herself for the greater good... she let go of her attachment to everything she loved in order to save the one she loved... something Anakin could not do.

    That's it. Awesome. That's exactly the way Lucas meant for us to interpret it. :D
  7. stormcloud8 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2002
    star 4
    I think that both Anakin and Padme are not intended to serve as role models. They're intended to be viewed as good people with great potential who fail when it matters most. That's what makes the PT such a great tragedy.

    The role models are their children. Luke - the powerful Jedi who redeems his father and helps to defeat the Sith. Leia - leader of the Rebel Alliance who helped bring freedom to the galaxy.

    The PT is about good people gone wrong. The OT is about good people who live up to expectations.
  8. Philosopher1701 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2005
    star 4
    she sacrificed herself for the greater good... she let go of her attachment to everything she loved


    222 INT. POLIS MASSA-OBSERVATION DOME-NIGHT

    On the isolated asteroid of Polis Massa, YODA meditates.

    YODA: Failed to stop the Sith Lord, I have. Still much to learn, there is ...

    QUI -GON: (V.O.) Patience. You will have time. I did not. When I became one with the Force I made a great discovery. With my training, you will be able to merge with the Force at will. Your physical self will fade away, but you will still retain your consciousness. You will become more powerful than any Sith.

    YODA: Eternal consciousness.

    QUI-GON: (V.O.) The ability to defy oblivion can be achieved, but only for oneself. It was accomplished by a Shaman of the Whills. It is a state acquired through compassion, not greed.

    YODA: . . . to become one with the Force, and influence still have . . . A power greater than all, it is.

    QUI-GON: (V.O.) You will learn to let go of everything. No attachment, no thought of self. No physical self.

    YODA: A great Jedi Master, you have become, Qui-Gon Jinn. Your apprentice I gratefully become.




    Padme should have become one with the Force! :p
  9. Jedifer Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2005
    star 1
    Good point, Stormcloud8
  10. Darthette Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2003
    star 5
    I often wonder if Luke would have made the same final decisions if Leia had been his wife and not his sister. Pointless musing, but still....
  11. Gungan_Sith_Lord Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2002
    star 1
    The democracy she strived to serve is dead. Her "friend" and former ally revealed himself to be the dark lord of the sith AND a brutal dictator. She DIRECTLY helped him get into power, both by calling the vote of no confidence AND allowing Binks to vote him emergency powers. This same man seduced her true love into darkness (for her own sake no less) and turned him into a monster, willing to kill children for her.

    She's guilt-sticken. She helped set all of this in motion. Her actions set up Anakin's downfall, as well as the republics. Since she cannot live with the guilt she carries, she never fully recovers (mentally) from attack of her Anakin. Having given birth to two force-strong children, she cannot think of actually raising them in this darkness. Thus, Padme, unable to change and adapt (when you don't adapt, you die - Padme AotC)passes on, leaving the hope to her children and to the last jedi knights.
  12. Nixua Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2005
    ~ô¿ô~ your a feminist arnt you :p

    no i agree it doesnt portray Padme as a good role model
    but where is it written that she must be?
    and its not exactly a "she needs her man to live" statement
    its a "im in love" statement, i mean come on....if your gonna complain about Padme not going to be a good role model why not complain about Anakin being a good role model.
  13. Jedi-Atreides Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2005
    star 1
    "She willingly let's go because she cannot imagine the evil Anakin will tap into in order to always protect her. If she is gone, Anakin has no need to continue down this dark path. She senses good in him, and in an effort to bring him back or at least eliminate his motive, she let's go..."

    Good points, although he goes down the dark path even if she's dead; he even becomes more insane with nothing to live for. So her sacrifice was for nothing and now she has two motherless kids who are at the mercy of the now harsh galaxy. I don't know, I thought she would've fought to live, even after her force choke, and tried to protect her children from their father because she felt responsible for her husband's downfall and that she owed the children her protection, at least.

    Lucas should've ommitted the line "She has lost the will to live." and had Padme die from the force choke.
  14. Philosopher1701 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2005
    star 4
    Great thoughts on the relationship between Padme and Palpatine, Gungan_Sith_Lord! I never thought of it that way before. =D= =D=

    To be honest, that is actually quite sad. Palpatine used her to gain all of his power and glory, and he concludes all of it by destroying her husband.

    That jerk! Who could even have the strength and will to break poor beautiful Padme's heart! :p
  15. DarthNeil Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2003
    star 4
    Why do some of you find it weak or not beliveable that some one can lose the will to live? I have seen it happen in real life not the same as ROTS but it can happen.

    To sum up padme loses everyhing in ROTS i have seen people die for less.
  16. Sauntaero Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 2003
    star 4
    Okay, so now I can appreciate the 'losing the will to live' theory a little more, if she gives her life so that the kids can live. it's a long shot.
    but I think what's worse than her death is really just her initiative throughout the movie. or lack thereof.

    The definition of a role model isn't someone who's ordinary, or human, but someone who displays superhuman qualities or values. it's someone who people can look up to no matter what. And Padme in this movie did not deliver. She didn't give it that extra courage and defiance of destiny that any other character role model would. Even though her world was completely obliterated, she was expected to somehow hold on and commit one last act of heroism. Having the babies wasn't that act: they would've died with her if she'd had her way.

    IMHO, by not having her control her own life and decisions like in this movie, it's still saying that Padme is a passive character, and that is NOT the kind of role model girls need these days. And if they can't get one from Star Wars, where can they get one?

    Ach. don't get me started on sexist roles in the media.
  17. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    You can lose the will to live.

    I recall in the book "White Oleander," Astrid muses to herself while her friend Yvonne is in labor that she now understands why women in the olden days would die in childbirth. They didn't die from loss of blood or an infection. They just gave up, because they knew that even if they survived this birth, they'd just be going through it again the next year, and again the next, and so on. So they simply let themselves die, let their heads fall below the water, so to speak.

    The definition of a role model isn't someone who's ordinary, or human, but someone who displays superhuman qualities or values. it's someone who people can look up to no matter what. And Padme in this movie did not deliver.

    And who asked her to? Who ever described her as a role model? Or is that simply what you assume, because she's the only female in the main cast?

    I must say, I'm tired of every single stinkin' female character in movies, TV shows, whatever automatically being held up as role models, or else being criticized for NOT being role models. Why can't women just play CHARACTERS, the way men do?
  18. forever_jedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2002
    star 5
    When did Anakin and Padme become role models? :confused: From AotC onwards, I see them as models of behavior to avoid! I think GL very intentionally set up the parents as fallible characters who make wrong, morally weak choices, while the children do the exact opposite. Anakin and Padme, individually good people, are bad for each other, bring out bad traits in each other, and ultimately cause each other's destruction. Luke and Leia make the right choices at every turn. Han and Leia's love story is the opposite of her parents' - they made each other better people.

    Padme ceased to be a role model when she married a Jedi padawan in secret, and went along with keeping it a secret.

    I actually think her death makes sense in terms of the story arc set for her from AotC onwards. As soon as Anakin "came back" into her life, her entire existence became centered around Anakin to the exclusion of everything else. So that when she finds on Mustafar that the one person she loved is so different from what she thought he was, and was responsible for countless deaths, she couldn't justify living. Her motherly or senatorial instincts were far weaker compared to her identity as lover. When the object of her love betrays her, there is nothing else for her.
  19. BIG_BEN Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2002
    star 3
    Just so that we're clear: I fully believe people can die due to a lack of will to live. I don't dispute that. All I'm saying is that the presentation of it in this film was weak.
  20. RolandofGilead Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2001
    star 7
    "I think this was the bravest move Padme made, she sacrificed herself for the greater good... she let go of her attachment to everything she loved in order to save the one she loved... something Anakin could not do. "


    And something that Obi-wan bravely mirrored some 20 years later. :( ~sniff!
  21. G-FETT Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2001
    star 7
    When did Anakin and Padme become role models? From AotC onwards, I see them as models of behavior to avoid! I think GL very intentionally set up the parents as fallible characters who make wrong, morally weak choices, while the children do the exact opposite. Anakin and Padme, individually good people, are bad for each other, bring out bad traits in each other, and ultimately cause each other's destruction. Luke and Leia make the right choices at every turn. Han and Leia's love story is the opposite of her parents' - they made each other better people.

    Padme ceased to be a role model when she married a Jedi padawan in secret, and went along with keeping it a secret.

    I actually think her death makes sense in terms of the story arc set for her from AotC onwards. As soon as Anakin "came back" into her life, her entire existence became centered around Anakin to the exclusion of everything else. So that when she finds on Mustafar that the one person she loved is so different from what she thought he was, and was responsible for countless deaths, she couldn't justify living. Her motherly or senatorial instincts were far weaker compared to her identity as lover. When the object of her love betrays her, there is nothing else for her.


    That was a pretty good read F_J. Well done. =D=
  22. Elsongs Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2005
    star 1
    As much as I hate to sound like a male feminist, I did think the movie was lacking in that Padme was the *only* female character to have a speaking role (Since robots are technically genderless, I don't think the Widwife Droid counts).

  23. Sauntaero Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 2003
    star 4
    And who asked her to? Who ever described her as a role model? Or is that simply what you assume, because she's the only female in the main cast?

    Any character in a story, especially a saga like this, is supposed to be a role model. Achilles. Hercules. Odysseus. King Arthur. They're all analogs of what people strive to be--role models. So then we have Padme, a young female as the leader of a planet in TPM, who fights for herself, who isn't afraid to die in AotC, who follows her heart knowing very well what could and did happen. And then we see her dependent on another, not willing to see other viewpoints, standing by while all truns to evil around her, and in the end, giving up in RotS.

    As to her being the only female in the cast, it's tragic. But maybe it's supposed to mirror real life. How many female US Senators are there right now?

    She really had everything going for her, character-wise; I wonder what happened. Though I do still look up to her, that ending was not what I hoped for.
  24. rowdolf Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2005
    ewokthatcried,..


    Stands up to applaud
  25. yoshifett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2004
    star 5
    Padme is not a good role model for girls who are married to a Jedi who will eventually turn to the Dark Side. That is not how to act if your husband is seduced by the Dark Lord of the Sith!
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