Padmé as a role model for girls - uh, not so much

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by ~ô¿ô~, May 31, 2005.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. jewlmc Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 1999
    star 4
    I'm so tired of all the appologists for this Stupid Plot Device saying things like "Well...if YOU had just been choked by the love of your life who turned evil, and given birth, you might have died"

    Or, phrased differently:

    "Well maybe you would have gotten over your evil husband without dying, but was that along with being choked and giving birth?"

    Let me tell you something about myself. If my husband went evil, would I be devastated? Yes. If he choked me and ALMOST killed me, would be depressed and despondent? Yes. If it brought on labor, would I be more stressed and and hurt? Yes.

    No question. But would I DIE? Would I "lose the will to live"? Heeellll nooo! Not unless I died of complications from the choke or childbirth. But this idiocy about just dying of a broken heart? Pfft!

    No WAY would I "have no reason to live" if I had babies. Even if I felt responsible, I would live on to help correct the mistakes I made. I'd live on just to kick my husbands butt. Love him or not, he did a terrible wrong, and would deserve to be punished. I would want to see to that personally if only for the safety of my children. If I felt they were safer away from me, I would see them given to someone else and hidden. But I would live on, so that one day I could help them when the time was right.

    The ONLY thing that would keep me(or most decent women who LOVE their children) from helping my babies is a strong STRONG reason to die. Like actual injuries or illness.

    And you know what? I'd do all that, and I've never been a Queen and led an army at 14 or a senator at 24, who also leads an army. Padme is supposed to be a heroine. But she doesn't act like it.

    And this symbiance thing is ridiculous. What is this? ET? If anything it makes even less sense. Afterall, Anakin is still alive in Vader. Padme says it herself. "There is still good in him." Well, Padme, if that's the case, you DO have a reason to live, even if you don't really care for your children, your honey pie is still salvagable.
  2. yoshifett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2004
    star 5
    Calm down.
    It's only a movie.
  3. Jovieve Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 4
    I think I'm going to go with stormcloud8. We're used to seeing the women in the Star Wars movies as being people ANYone would look up to in terms of smarts, guts and fashion sense. But this time, in this last movie and a half, I think storms got the ticket. As the series descends into a tragedy, perhaps - like Romeo and Juliet - Anakin and Padme are not meant to serve as role models, but rather as warnings to others.
  4. sithrules70 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2005
    star 4
    """"You all are missing a very important aspect as to why Padme CHOSE to die at that moment. She PURPOSEFULLY takes herself out of the equation. Let me explain...

    Padme knows Anakin is obsessed with her and that this obsession causes him to do unspeakable things. She sees that Anakin believes he is doing all of this for her. He wants to save/protect her, and this is his justification for the murders, the plots, the evil that he embraces.

    Padme, had she remained alive, would have justified Anakin's actions.

    She cannot place her own life above those lives of all the people Anakin slaughtered or the Republic. She cannot condone his course of action. She cannot justify the things he has done "to protect her life" so she removes herself from the equation.

    She willingly let's go because she cannot imagine the evil Anakin will tap into in order to always protect her. If she is gone, Anakin has no need to continue down this dark path. She senses good in him, and in an effort to bring him back or at least eliminate his motive, she let's go...

    That's my take.""""


    you know,this is an excellent post and i would agree with it if it wasnt for the fact that padme's death is what finally completes anakin's turn.it was the final touch.

    as u said maybe her intentions were good but it only ended up backfiring and making of vader the "more machine than man,twisted and evil" we all know from OT.
  5. JediLaura01 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 20, 2001
    star 3
    Padme' was as strong as she possibly could have been given the circumstances.

    Lots of strong people lose the will to live, if broken down enough.

    I still think she's a strong female character. She could have followed Anakin to the dark side and ruled with him, but it's not what she believed in. She stuck to her beliefs, even though it broke her heart. That's strength.
  6. RolandofGilead Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2001
    star 7
    Please re-read Ewokthatcried's posts and then think about the sacrifice Obi-wan made in ANH that we all readily accepted. I believe this explanation with all of my being. Padme sacrificed her life to put out the angry fire inside Anakin. Obi-wan did the same some 20 years later leaving Vader with nothing to lose or hope for until he finds his son.

  7. sithrules70 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2005
    star 4
    """"I think this was the bravest move Padme made, she sacrificed herself for the greater good... she let go of her attachment to everything she loved in order to save the one she loved... something Anakin could not do.""""}


    and tell me.how did her death saved him? padme's death only ended up making vader more angry more evil and less human that he already was.
  8. Windu_Wan Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2005
    I saw nothing wrong in Padme's death to me GL wanted to show no matter how evil and twisted Anakin became what was worth it. He became this sith lord, dark evil machine but at what cost, the one he did it for is gone, he has killed all the jedi, become this evil man, so not like he can turn back he has nothing to attach himself too until he finds Luke.

    Padme died because she feels guilty for Anakin's turn, she knows he was posessed in trying to save her and it ended up destroying the republic, jedi and turn him into something she couldn't love. It didn't matter children or no children her life was dead when she was on Mustafar and tried to turn him then and didn't work and ended up going into the force choke.
  9. XenoSkywalker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2005
    star 4
    Her heart was "broken"...OK!

    Jeez....cant choo all see that she IS strong, but had her heart "broken"?......Sheesh!

  10. JediLaura01 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 20, 2001
    star 3
    I don't know. I can understand Padme' sacrificing herself, and it seems to make sense, but don't you think GL would have spelled it out a little better (like he did with Obi-Wan in ANH) if that was the case?
  11. Jumpman Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2003
    star 4
    Why does everything have to spelled out? That's the beauty of Star Wars for me. Not everything is spelled out and what you get is what you get on these boards...discussion(or argument) on certain aspects and meaning in the Saga.
  12. ezekiel22x Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2002
    star 4
    I think this was the bravest move Padme made, she sacrificed herself for the greater good... she let go of her attachment to everything she loved in order to save the one she loved... something Anakin could not do.

    I don?t really see how Padme?s death could be construed as a sacrifice. If anything, it seems like her losing the will to live despite the fact that her children were born and that she still thinks there?s good in Anakin indicates that she is not strong-willed or noble at all. She?s weak, and I think that from the very beginning of her relationship with Anakin she knowingly allowed herself to be drawn into a situation she didn?t totally believe in. For me, the two characters seem to force themselves to love each other, hence the problematic endings they both meet at the end of Revenge of the Sith.

  13. JediLaura01 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 20, 2001
    star 3
    Why does everything have to spelled out? That's the beauty of Star Wars for me. Not everything is spelled out and what you get is what you get on these boards...discussion(or argument) on certain aspects and meaning in the Saga.

    Not everything has to be spelled out. I have my own take on things. I was just wondering what Lucas' intentions were.
  14. Sauntaero Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 2003
    star 4
    That's very true, ezekiel. Going along with something you only half believe in can be quite devastating. I tried that once in a relationship and gave myself an emotional breakdown.

    But I didn't lose the will to live.
    (So y'all get to put up with me alittle longer ;) )
  15. forever_jedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2002
    star 5
    Padme sacrificed her life to put out the angry fire inside Anakin. Obi-wan did the same some 20 years later leaving Vader with nothing to lose or hope for until he finds his son.

    :confused: What "angry fire" did she put out inside Anakin? You mean without her sacrificing her life, Vader would have been even more bad than choking Imperial officers, quietly abetting blowing off a planet, hunting down the remaining Jedi, and generally being pretty evil all around?

    How exactly are her death and Obi-Wan's the same? Obi-Wan sacrificed himself so that Luke and Leia could escape the Death Star at that moment. And so that he could continue to guide Luke almost immediately from the afterlife. Padme's death leaves her newborn children in the care of two droids and three acquaintances. Why couldn't she have arranged for a decoy death like she had been engaging in for her entire life?

    Padme dies from her feelings of betrayal and guilt. Not from any intention of a sacrifice for her kids. She starts to "die" before her children have been born. It is understandable - because despite it not being her intention at all, her actions and choices helped establish an Empire and drove Anakin to the Dark Side.

    However, her story from when she grew up, in AotC, should be a cautionary tale of what NOT to do.
  16. Gungan_Sith_Lord Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2002
    star 1
    PADMÉ: That was when I went with the Relief Group to Shadda-Bi-Boran. Their sun was imploding, and the planet was dying. I was helping to relocate the children. See that little one I'm holding? His name was N'a-kee-tula, which means sweetheart. He was so full of life. All those kids were. I did everything I could to save him, but he died...they all did. They were never able to adapt...to live off their native planet.

    Moral: If you cannot adapt, you die. Padme could not adapt to Anakin's fall, the republic's demise, and the guilt of her role in all of it.
  17. JediLaura01 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 20, 2001
    star 3
    Interesting, but that would suggest that Padme' could not adapt to change, when it was really Anakin who couldn't. That's what aided in his fall.
  18. Disco_Dark_Jeedai Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 19, 2001
    star 4
    I think it would have been better if she died as result of AniVader's choking her rather than the not having the will to live.

    It would have been more moving had it been done that way as we would have seen him turn to the dark side in order to "save" her but because he turned to the dark side he ends up "killing" her.

    Just as the Jedi freed him from slavery and the Sith made him a slave once more.

    Full circle.
  19. HawkHeadKentil Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2003
    star 3
    Leia is so much more the bomb, than her lame mother. Im sure if Han went all dark side and "bean pie" on her, she would have slaped him good. Padlame had a bigger responsibility, but chose the lame path to ultimate lameness.
  20. JediLaura01 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 20, 2001
    star 3
    It would have been more moving had it been done that way as we would have seen him turn to the dark side in order to "save" her but because he turned to the dark side he ends up "killing" her.

    Well, this is actually what happened, but not in a physical way. She lost her will to live because Anakin turned to the dark side, so he is responsible.
  21. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    I'm so tired of all the appologists for this Stupid Plot Device saying things like "Well...if YOU had just been choked by the love of your life who turned evil, and given birth, you might have died"

    And maybe people are tired of being called apologists for a stupid plot device.

    So what if YOU wouldn't have done what Padmé did? You aren't her. Saying that this way is the right way because YOU would have done it is presumptuous. I recall an author of a book about divorce whose thesis was that even if your spouse cheats on you, you should not divorce them, that you should forgive and move on. They based this thesis on their own personal experience.

    And you know what? I'd do all that, and I've never been a Queen and led an army at 14 or a senator at 24, who also leads an army. Padme is supposed to be a heroine.

    Is she? Or is she just supposed to be a female character who does some heroic things, but ultimately is fallible?
  22. Disco_Dark_Jeedai Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 19, 2001
    star 4
    "Well, this is actually what happened, but not in a physical way. She lost her will to live because Anakin turned to the dark side, so he is responsible."

    True, but the "no will to live" seems really bad in light of knowing you have to care for a child.

    If it was symbionic between her and Anakin, that would be a little better to swallow.

    Does anyone remember if she dies right when they put Anakin in the suit?
  23. sithrules70 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2005
    star 4
    yeah and if the force choke killing her had happen it would have been awful because GL tried to show us the he wasnt 100% monster yet.


    can u imagine her dying because of the choke?¡?¡?¡? :_|

    her death is tragic enough already,give the poor girl a break.
  24. HawkHeadKentil Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2003
    star 3
    Padlame is just as responsible. She goes with a guy that admits to murdering defensless women and children in AOTC. What the hell was she thinking......."he will make a good father"? The guy had issues, and she refused to tell him to get bent.
  25. JediLaura01 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 20, 2001
    star 3
    True, but the "no will to live" seems really bad in light of knowing you have to care for a child.

    If it was symbionic between her and Anakin, that would be a little better to swallow.

    Does anyone remember if she dies right when they put Anakin in the suit?


    You have a point about the children, and yes, she dies right after Anakin enters the suit and takes his first breath in it.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.