Discussion in 'Literature' started by bsmith7174, Nov 13, 2017.
(Sadly I think that's the only real reason)
Okay, how can we work that in in-universe?
"You're a slave?"
"I'm a person and my name is Anakin."
"I'm a character and it says here that I love you now."
"I was not written to watch my people suffer and die, but I was written to love Anakin, so I do." See you know she loves him because she said "I do". Awwww.
"So this is why liberty dies. It was written in the script, right next to my love for Anakin."
"Do you love me? I thought that was forbidden for a Jedi? What does the script say?" See, she's interested in what the script says about him.
"Anakin, the script says you're breaking my heart!"
"Anakin, you're so....LINE!"
"Anakin, we were destined to be together because someone wrote it down."
"Anakin, you know I love you, you've read the script as well as I". I think I just captured her voice with "as well as I". That's how she talks. This is her equivalent of Anakin's emo poet voice.
"Let's get an apartment together. We're at that point in the story where it makes sense."
"Anakin, the script says that all I want is your love! It seems kinda limiting, and kinda feel like I want a sandwich, but I don't get to choose these things, or know why."
Okay it works, I've got her figured out now. Forget what I said before.
YES. In TPM she wasn't so bad, and I used to like her back then because I thought she was a badass with her Naboo gang and would be like that in the other two films.
But then in AOTC... she started acting way different. Like a really awkward high school romance, except we were watching adults. And her whole "ruling badass with Naboo gang" demeanor and plotline were entirely gone.
And in TCW... actually I think she sort of had a stable personality in TCW, but the things we learned about her were less than flattering, like she was a rich spoiled girl with no idea of the problems going on around her. Her handmaiden whose family can't afford water to take a bath (because apparently Padme doesn't pay attention to her handmaidens' personal problems nor pay them enough to support their families). That time she blindly walks down a super sketchy street at night on Coruscant because she feels like taking a stroll. Those times she hangs out with her rich ex Rush Clovis even though she's married so they can chill at posh apartments and talk about All The Money In The Galaxy. That time she spends an entire episode making a ridiculous cake for Senator Aang because she needs his vote on a bill.
...actually I could keep going on with this but I'm gonna stop. But despite all that, I totally agree CT-Song-Numbers, I hope this Padme book does something to give her more depth. She really needs a character overhaul at this point.
I think all we can really do to explain why Padme fell for Anakin is that although she had things together professionally and was very intelligent in that area, however, when it came to men she was the complete opposite.
It's not that far fetched for it to be like that either. As in real life there definitely are people out there that are really smart professionally but really dumb when it comes to their personal lives.
Wasn't the point of Pursuit of Peace that Padme did talk to he handmaiden? That she was the only senator who really cared for how the cost of the war was affecting its citizens? And it wasn't the street that was sketchy, she was being specifically targeted, and fought back, beating her attackers.
As for Clovis, the whole point they got together the first time was because she was a spy, and the second to try and crack down on the Banking Clan corruption. It's Clovis who tries to re-ignite the relationship.
The cake, yeah, not Padme's greatest adventure, but it was hardly Anakin's either, who spends the episode in a tiny role with Padme. It was a comedy droid ep, not a grand senate adventure, and Padme wasn't even in most of it.
There's plenty of episodes showing Padme as an idealistic senator, or trying to independently save the day.
She emphasises with him, and that forms the basis of her love. It’s a bit too close to pity for my like, but I also absently wonder if Anakin’s feelings of inadequacy contribute towards the acts he takes to secure her love.
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I think the main problem with Padme is that she was created and written to be Anakin's love interest and Luke and Leia's mother, not as a character in her own right. In TPM she shows the most agency because she's not with Anakin yet. Once they meet again and the story decides they need to fall in love, her entire character goes pffft.
That's true. The character of Padme likely wasn't even envisioned until Lucas started planning out the prequels in the mid '90's. Until then all that likely existed of this said character who was Luke and Leia's mother was what we heard about her in ROTJ.
There's ways to write a love interest and still have them be their own character. Initially, I think that's what we got with Padme. But she evolved into "love interest" and nothing more. Her political scenes in RotS would have helped that.
What about Anakin's side of the relationship, what the hell does he see in her other than a pretty face?
-He spent his childhood in slavery while she (probably) spent hers in opulence among the elite
-He's a tech whizz while she probably can't start her own yacht without her servants' help
-He believes in action and adventure while she believes in peace and diplomacy
You see where I'm going. Sure, you can say similar things about Han and Leia however the difference there is that they had three years to develop their feelings for each other and even then they hid their feelings from themselves.
With Anakin and Padme they knew each other for about a week and even then they acted more like friends (at least on Padme's part).
What I've always found weird is that although during their ten year separation, it makes perfect sense for Anakin to grow up idolising Padme and remembering her as his "one true love", you'd think Padme would have more sense than that.
Padme: I'm sorry Rush, you're a brilliant senator and a caring lover but we can't go on.
Clovis: But why Padme, I love you!
Padme: I know but my heart belongs to a nine year old boy I knew for a week ten years ago!
These are exactly my points. She SHOULD have known about her handmaiden to begin with. She SHOULDN'T have been walking on that street. Etc etc. She's a dimbat.
And don't get me started on Clovis. I ain't defending Padme on that one.
Seriously, she's a terrible heroine for kids to look up to. TPM Padme? She had video games, books, tons of action figures, etc etc. She was a cool badass and had so much potential. AOTC/TCW/ROTS Padme? Good grief she was a mess. She made lie cakes for senators and hung out with bankers. She saved some kids from poison Juicy Juice packs sold by sketchy lizardmen. These are weird bizarre plots kids don't relate with or want to relate with (ok ok no San Hill jokes... I see it coming).
Basically I realize I'm not going to add much to this conversation because I've had pent-up rage against Padme since 2002. Which is longer than some of you have been alive. I'm probably going to bat this decaying horse every time you stick it in front of me, so I should probably remove myself from the conversation.
I see this as her last chance of redemption and I think they've got a shot at it if they play their author cards right but sheeeeesh how did they screw it up so bad this long?
My personal theory is that Padme loved Anakin because he was the only one in her life other than her parents who did not give a **** whether she was a Queen, Senator or handmaiden. He seemed to like her for who she was, not her position.
But I recognize that that argument doesn’t really hold up when you scratch the surface because he only knew her as someone who was kind to him on Tatooine and in her ship.
And don’t even get me started on Clovis. I’d like a fan remix involving Clovis and Kylo Ren getting attacked by Porgs.
I think you summed up my feelings of Padme over the years quite well Barris_Coffee. TPM I think is where Padme was at her best as a badass take-charge queen who truly cared for the safety of her people. Then the rest of the film's happened and ROTS in particular turned her into a glorified door mat with no interesting thing about her other then being the wife of the Chosen One.
And I'm still not sure what was going on with Padme in TCW.
So like many have already said I hope this book gives Padme some much needed deph as I really do think she still has untapped potential to be a interesting character.
I would like if we could learn more about her family who only showed up in a one canon scene. Back at her funeral.
I have the Porg trainer on hand:
Maybe they should have left those cut ROTS Padme scenes in the movie.
This is probably just me but I read Anakin and Padme's relationship in AotC as they're physically intimate the entire time from "Don't worry, we have Artoo with us!" to the trip to Geonosis (and maybe for spell when they're captured if they were kept in the same cell). But the rules are they can't fall in love (or kiss! ie. "I shouldn't have done that.") But they do fall in love which is why I read Padme's accepting the admission of the Tusken slaughter and her proclamation of love before their execution came from (and they fact they were, y'know, about to be publicly, brutally executed).
Mainly, I extrapolate this off of the shot of Anakin sleeping and Padme saying she heard him in his sleep. How is she going to hear him if they aren't sleeping in the same room together? Yes, we see Anakin talking in his sleep "No, mom." but that was more murmuring, she ain't going to hear that if she's sleeping in a separate room, seems like something she would only hear if they were together. Also, y'know, her somewhat ... provocative outfit in the fireplace chat.
I just think it makes the relationship more complicated if there's a something that the audience isn't entirely privy to (and helps me personally accept Padme's turn to undying love). Maybe she thought he was kind of a cute space monk or something. Naboo seems a pretty liberal, free spirited place.
Her hearing him mutter in his sleep is a bit of a stickler to me, though, and sort of extrapolate from there.
Just my view but I think it works. At least for me! Anakin Skywalker's big Girlfriend Experience weekend that got complicated. Or to use the plot of a Natalie Portman movie she made "No Strings Attached."
Ah, those ROTS scenes would have benefitted her character, the film itself, the entire saga narrative, and Mon Mothma (although in the latter case we wouldn't know how incredibly useful that would be, considering how big a part of TCW, R1 and Rebels she would turn out to be, often portrayed by the same actress). In any case, before getting too far off topic, this book has a chance to fix some things up once and for all, so here's hoping.
I never thought of that. Perhaps, physical sex is so innocuous in the galaxy, and just standard between a female and male companion. Sex doesn't mean love and perhaps they were just satisfying their urges.
Why so limited?
Are we really going to do this? Firstly, Hayden Christensen is very attractive, she's not blind. Second, both Padme and Anakin were isolated in careers that took away their childhoods. Neither have really lived a life, they live for others. They find comfort in each other. Episode II also states Padme is looking to start a family, she's open to romance. Clone Wars goes even more into it. Not only is he handsome, he's dashing, charismatic, adventurous and serving the Republic Padme loves so much. He's a hero. The Mandalore arc for Padme essentially casts her as Anakin opposite Satine's Obi Wan, highlighting the similarities in their characters. Padme goes to action, she doesn't follow rules, she doesn't accept the status quo. Even Forces of Destiny has Padme take on Anakin's mannerisms and explicitly has Ahsoka compare the two.
The most tragic thing about Revenge of the Sith is that Padme Amidala, who gave herself completely for others, wanted one thing for herself and it killed her. She didn't deserve that.
As for the grand cake adventure of Clone Wars, she's a politician, shmoozing is part of the deal. Why do you think State Dinners are served on good china? This puts a cake in perspective http://cdn03.cdn.justjared.com/wp-c...yal-in-red-for-state-dinner-with-china-13.JPG
Heyden was a creepster in AOTC! I don't know if it was his fault as an actor or what he was directed to do on set (I suspect both), but he kept staring eerily at Padme through the whole film. The tusken slaughter part was the worst. You don't hang out with people like that! You don't hug them! WTF.
The only explanation I can think of is that Padme had a few screws loose herself.
Also, as a general point, I think it's worth remembering just how much underuse/poor use of Padme there's been. Every time I've seen something specific in this thread that I felt like quibbling with, I decided it would be silly to do so when the overall aggregate picture is so bad.
I'm not going to make any value judgments of this (they'd be very negative), but I don't remember seeing any of this reasoning in all the Star Wars I've consumed. Can you point to any work that actually runs with this and makes it part of the narrative? It doesn't have to be stated directly, showing it would be fine. Yes, they've both been isolated and dedicated to duty, but when is this worked in/shown as the reason they love each other?
In AOTC...it looks pretty clear that Padme finds discomfort in Anakin. She even says he makes her uncomfortable, and she means that he is creeping her out. Anakin's love for her doesn't seem to be a comfort, it's said to be an inconvenience. Even in her confession at the end of AOTC she says she's been "dying a little bit each day". Doesn't sound like she finds comfort in him. (yes, I know that line has a double meaning)
After AOTC, they're separated for most of the war. Hardly any time to find comfort in each other.
When? I don't remember this.
If you're talking about this part from the script:
The bold parts are not in the movie. In the movie, it's this:
They spend most of their time apart in TCW.
I guess I'll have to take your word for it. I've seen almost all of TCW, including the Mandalore episodes, and I don't feel it helped me understand them. I can't think of a single moment where they really clicked together. I can't think of any episodes where I could go "okay, I can see why they're in love"....or that they were in love at all. The latter part is because the character work for them is ridiculously wooden. There's no passion for them on the part of Filoni and Co.
This is what I'm talking about. This is what I want. An "awwwww" moment where I totally ship the **** out of them. I want some actual romance, dammit. I want to swoon. These moments just don't exist, not that I've seen.
It doesn't seem like Filoni and Co, or anyone creating Star Wars content that I know of, is actually an A&P shipper themselves, or even a fan of Padme. This is what Padme needs, she needs someone who is passionate about her and really wants to make the character shine.
Padme needs someone to put the same kind of effort into her that Stover puts into his work, or Luceno puts into his crazy webs of continuity, or the passion Sean Stewart put into Dooku and Yoda. Hell, even the biased favoritism Zahn shows for Thrawn and Mara is way better than anything Padme has ever gotten that I'm aware of, because at least Zahn really, really wants to work with his characters. Doesn't seem like anyone wants to do anything with Padme, thus her lack of content and general lack of importance as a character.
Okay, this will sound obtuse...but what was the one thing she wanted for herself? When I read that, I drew a blank.
Then I remembered the dialogue. "All I want is your love". Yeah, but liberty had already died, she watched the Jedi temple destroyed from her balcony, and Anakin had already killed younglings. She's desperate and clutching at straws. Anakin's love is apparently all that's left. (well, there's the kids, but apparently they weren't enough)
I honestly think the political stuff is or feels more important to her than Anakin, it's where her passion lies. I think that would be the one thing she wanted for herself (her political dreams realized), but that part of her character hardly exists in AOTC or ROTS, and it's killed off when liberty dies.
In AOTC, he's a wreck, tearfully howling about her being in his soul, tormenting him, and he slaughters an entire tribe of Tuskens...and she has to sorta awkwardly console him. In ROTS, he's a paranoid wreck, afraid she is going to die in childbirth, and at one point basically accuses her of being a Separatist...and she has to manage his feelings, reassure him that's she not going to die and that the Jedi aren't out to get him. She seems more like his crisis counselor than anything. It looks exhausting. These are things people who love each other do for each other, but they're not reasons they love each other or fall in love. I mean, I've never heard anyone say they love someone because they're ridiculously neurotic and anxious. That's a problem you get someone help for.
In the movies, Anakin comes off as a wreck that she has to constantly manage. Even if that's why she loves him, because she likes taking care of him, it'd be nice if their relationship was more than just him being a psycho and her trying to keep him under control.