Padme Amidala Padme Dark Senate Dress

Discussion in 'Costuming and Props' started by Mara_Jade_AZ, Jul 21, 2002.

Moderators: Commander-DWH
  1. Doc_Bev Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2003
    star 5
    Darth_Eagle I think that padawan_adri wore this dress to CIII, but your picture link from April doesn't work anymore, so I can't tell for sure if it's the same lady. Here's a picture of her with HothGirl in her Sabe.

    ~Doc_Bev
  2. Darth_Eagle Fanforce CR Singapore

    Chapter Rep
    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2001
    star 4
    Ya, I think it's the same person as the size is a giveaway ;) (no punt intended as I am also Plus Size [face_blush] ).

    Hmmm.....the link still works for me. [face_thinking]

    Jedi Girl of Corellia, good luck! [:D]
  3. Miana Kenobi Admin Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 2000
    star 8
    At FIDM's Dressing a Galaxy exhibit yesterday, I was able to go upstairs where this dress was (seperate from the main exhibit) and get some detailed shots.

    http://www.kodakgallery.com/Slideshow.jsp?Uc=eg1smzw.xosk94k&Uy=-51k3jx&Upost_signin=Slideshow.jsp%3Fmode%3Dfromshare&Ux=0&mode=fromshare&conn_speed=1

    I have the large high resolution of all of these shots, so PM me if you would like any of them for reference.

    My friend jess_squared also got many good detailed shots of this dress. If you need any of them in high res, you can PM her (or me, since I nicked them from her computer ;) ) and have one of us send them to you!

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/45504478@N00/sets/1521664/

    It's a beautiful dress; I wish those of you brave enough at attempt it good luck! :D
  4. Jedi Girl of Corellia Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 2000
    star 6
    Oo.. those are some fabulous photos!

    I've got the yellow part of the dress made and am currently searching for the beads to use. I'm being extremly anal about them. Anyone that has seen the dress, would you say they are black with a purple/blue iridescent shimmer to them? What color are they?

    The shawl on the back, does anyone have an idea on what kind of fabric it is? I know there is an embroidered pattern on it, almost a honeycomb vine looking pattern, but the luster of the fabric is what I'm finding hard to produce.

    I'm also working on a wig. Just getting the hair wefted together right now, but I'll let you all know how that turns out too.

    Ah well, back to the machine!!
  5. MiraxTHorn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 2000
    star 4
    Oh, Jedi Girl, I'm anxious to see your dress! This is going to be my next big project, too. I have to double-check when I have it in front of me, but doesn't Trisha's book say that the beads are navy? Please post pics of your progress!

    I was wondering if people who have seen this dress in person think that the gold part of the dress is one piece or two? I suspected it was two pieces, a blouse and a skirt, and I was examinining Miana's picture's last night I think I found confirmation of that. But, Miana has actually seen it in person, and she disagrees, so I don't want to go only by photos.

    Here's what I think shows two pieces - If you examine the beaded 'vees' and compare the one right at the waist to the others, it appears to be thicker and set off a tiny bit from the fabric behind it. The Moire pattern doesn't quite line up there. Also, if you look closely at the hook holes at the waist, the lower holes have the gold moire visible behind them, suggesting a skirt. The upper ones are white behind them which I believe to be the mannaquin.

    I would so love to know what the underdress really looks like! It's those kind of mystery details that just drive a perfectionist crazy! :)

    Regards,
    M.
  6. PadawansGuide Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2002
    star 3
    I think it's at least two pieces - you can see the bottom edge of the bodice clearly in this pic - and you can also see that the coat is laced to it. It may be that it is a stomacher rather than a full bodice under the coat - I'm not sure!

    http://www.padawansguide.com/fidm/dm_senate_detail.jpg

    http://www.padawansguide.com/fidm/dm30.jpg


    (cut and paste the links if clicking doesn't work - they are Darth Manos' exhibit pics)



  7. Jedi Girl of Corellia Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 2000
    star 6
    The beads are navy? Ok, that's great I've got some in mind that I can use. Unfortunatly I don't have Trisha's book :( So I'm going off of pictures here.

    I agree with Maggie that it's two pieces. It wouldn't be practical if it was one full dress.
  8. kay_dee Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2002
    star 4
    I was looking at this dress this weekend as well. I also agree that it is a top and skirt. And yes, it is a full skirt (someone I was with got on hands and knees to see underneath). I believe she thought she also spotted a quilted hoop-skirt under it (which would make sense since we know a few of Padme's other full gowns use a quilted hoop skirt). I asked her what color she thought it was and she thought it looked like a dark color - maybe purple. But obviously she was very limited as to what she could see. She was not touching the costume.

    So you think it's just a stomacher? I thought that it looked like a full bodice with eyelets sewn into it for the metal hooks to hook into. Similar to how the purple senate dress has hooks and eye bars for the coat.

    The fabric for the shawl seems to be similar to a metallic silk organza (but not sheer like organza). As I recall we had seen some synthetic versions of this unusual fabric in the fabric mart area of LA.

    I also believe there is actually wire worked into the finished folded edge of the shawl which helps give it that stiffness.

    - Kay Dee
  9. Jedi Girl of Corellia Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 2000
    star 6
    Wire? Hmmm... And would you say it's broom stick pleated too for the texture??
  10. kay_dee Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2002
    star 4
    Oh yes, it is pleated. The fabric didin't seem to come that way either. I don't have my pictures uploaded, but near the bottom 'tails' of the shawl in the back the pleating stops and the fabric is smooth for a good 5" or so before it's finished off at the ends with some kind of dark metallic looking embroidery or trim. (I'm hoping my photos will show this detail better since the lights were dim when we were upstairs. For all I know they were beads.).

    - Kay Dee
  11. MiraxTHorn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 2000
    star 4
    kay-dee - You're in one of jess-squared's pics of this dress, taking your own pictures of it. :) I figured you'd have some good insights!

    What is a quilted hoopskirt? I did a search, but all I'm finding are quilted petticoats?

    Regards,
    M.
  12. kay_dee Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2002
    star 4
    Quilted hoop skirt - what is it? Well, it's the way I describe a few of Padme's hoop skirts. It's like they made a quilted skirt (2 layers of fabric with thin batting in between and then top stitched into little squares) - then added channels to the inside of it they way you would for a hoop skirt or farthingale for the hoop wire. I guess that's a good way to have a hoop skirt and not have the wires show through to the outside of the dress. The Purple Senate dress I made wasn't done that way, but some of Padme's other hoops (well, 2 or 3 for sure) were done that way.

    Oh, I'm in some of her pictures? I haven't taken a look at all of them yet! LOL! We were all standing around the costume at one point snapping away.

    - Kay Dee
  13. Miana Kenobi Admin Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 2000
    star 8
    I didn't didn't touch the dress ( ;) ), and the shawl felt incredibly stiff and almost hard. I couldn't place what it felt like, since I'm no fabric expert. I know that's not much help, but I hope it helps a little bit.

    And Ooooh... I see the two pieces now. Guess I wasn't looking close enough!
  14. Jedi Girl of Corellia Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 2000
    star 6
    LOL... so the fabric is really stiff. Cool. Now to find something like that!!

    And Kay_Dee, I've got a pretty good picture of the bottom of the shawl, it's definetly beading on the end.
  15. MiraxTHorn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 2000
    star 4
    re: the shawl fabric - I found some sheer fabrics with a similar embroidery style on a belly-dancing website I ran across. They were listed as Persian fabrics. I emailed the website owner because she is willing to keep an eye out for special fabrics. She said that she had never seen anything similar to the shawl fabric, and that those Persian fabrics were over 10 years old. I suspect this was one of Trisha's antique fabrics that she so loves using.

    Thanks for the info on hoopskirts, kaydee. Are there any pics somewhere of what you're describing?

    Regards,
    M.

  16. kay_dee Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2002
    star 4
    That's good to know it's beading. I have not looked through my photos yet and there just wasn't enough light to see that detail clearly with the naked eye.

    Again, I'd have to look at my photos - but I thought thet the embroidery stopped a few inches before the edge of the bottom tails of the wrap/shawl. That would suggest to me the fabric didn't come embroidered, but the work was custom by the woman who did all the embroidery for the costumes.


    - Kay Dee

  17. PadawansGuide Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2002
    star 3
    I suppose there's no reason not to post these now, since other people took pics of it!

    Here are all my pics plus a few Darth Manos ones:

    http://www.padawansguide.com/fidm2_maggie_dark.shtml

    The shawl was definitely a metallic crinkle of some sort, only embroidered.

    I don't know that's definitely a stomacher, I was just throwing that out there! :)
  18. MiraxTHorn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 2000
    star 4
    I'm finally starting to gather patterns and sketch out the seam lines for this costume. Hopefully I'll be getting to the muslin stage fairly soon, but I need to sew the underpinnings first.

    For those of you who saw this in person and peered underneath, do you happen to remember what color the "quilted hoopskirt" might have been? Also, are there any pics of the hoopskirt kay-dee described above for any Padme costume?

    What do you think would be an accurate corset for under the bodice? I'm leaning towards something similar to what kay-dee did for her Purple Senate costume.

    Regards,
    M.
  19. kay_dee Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2002
    star 4
    I think my friend AudToo might remember the hoop skirt color because it was she and her friend who got on their knees to try to see it. I'll e-mail her and ask if it was gold or purple (I know I asked her at one time and totally forgot).

    I've actually seen silk at fabric stores that looks like the quilted stuff that was used to make the hoop skirt I saw on another padme costume. I just never had a camera with me to take a picture of it. It's just like 2 layers of dupioni with a thin layer of batting sandwiched between and stitched together in a quilted square pattern. This Home Decorating Web Site has some photos of the kind of silk I'm talking about (but they are small). I'm sure if you look around at places that sell fabric made for upholstry you'll find it. I think I saw it at Poppy Fabrics in Oakland and maybe Discount Fabrics in San Francisco.

    It's just a regular Farthingale or hoop skirt, only the fabric used to make it isn't thin broadcloth, it's the quilted silk fabric. It looked like a strip (not bias tape, I can't remember the name of the tape) is sewn to the inside of the hoop skirt to make a channel for the hoop wire. The same way that most farthingale and hoop skirt patterns work.

    As for the bodice, I got the impression from biba-fett that a lot of the bodices on Padme's costumes have the corsets kind of sewn into them. Although the black corset gown is actually 2 seperate corsets. The black outer layer is more decorative, and there is another corset worn underneath the leather that really gives the extreme shaping. They couldn't even use the under corset when they put the costume on display because it was so tiny!

    I should have jotted down what she told me about the Purple Senate Dress that I made. I seem to remember asking her if the corset underneath was seperate and she seemed to remember it as a being a under layer of the bodice that was connected to the outer layer. I don't know if it has any baring on the Dark Senate Dress, but she said the Purple Senate Bodice laces up the back. In the end I think you should do whatever is easiest for you to give you the shape and support you are looking for. Nobody will be the wiser.

    - Kay Dee
  20. Jayne Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 16, 2002
    star 2
    I think an Elizabethan corset would be the best shape for this dress. I think the flat front and high bust it gives to a shape is extremely evident in this exhibit photo from Padawans Guide:

    http://www.padawansguide.com/fidm/maggie/dark20_med.jpg

    See that line at the almost-bottom of the beading? Where it goes from being really smooth to kinda ripply? That's the line the top of an Elizabethan would give when there's no bust underneath. Usually the breasts would be pushed up to give the top of that beading more support and make it less ripply. It also has a really flat front, not a rounded one, which would be what you would get out of a Georgian shape. Kay Dee used an Elizabethan corset pattern on her dress. I think that Elizabethan would be a safe bet even if you didn't know that much about corsets, though, because in the Art Of book they say that "Lucas wanted the now-senator Padme to be attired in regal, Elizabethan finery for th enew production." The quote is right next to a costume design pic that looks a lot like the final Dark Senate dress (pg 22 if you're looking). There's a great, free pattern generator for this kind of corset:

    http://costume.dm.net/custompat/index.html


    I'd also agree with Kay Dee's bet that the corset and hoopskirt are probably one piece. In period they would be separate but tied together. Tricia's production, though, seems to favor one-piece workings, probably for ease in transporting (less pieces to loose) and dressing the actors. See the pics on Padawan's Guide of the Packing Dress and the Green Velvet Gown:

    http://www.padawansguide.com/silver_gallery.shtml (at the bottom)
    http://www.padawansguide.com/green_gallery.shtml (again, at the bottom)



    Probably Bone Casing. It's a tape woven into a tube that's usually used to bone corsets. Easy to use, just sew on and push the boning through the hole. Here's a pic from my favorite supplier of corsetry stuff:

    http://store.corsetmaking.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=BC-W12YD&Category_Code=BC
  21. kay_dee Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2002
    star 4
    Oh, I didn't mean to imply that the corset was connected to the hoop skirt. Rather, some of padme's corset support is connected to the outer shell of the bodice. I seem to recall Biba-fett telling me that with the purple senate outfit I made (loyalist committe), that the corset was connected to the bodice. I remembered thinking 'darn I did it wrong' anyway. But now I feel like it doesn't matter, because I still get the same silhouette and it's easier for me to have it as two seperate garments (I can wash my corset!).

    I remember now, It was cotton twill tape that my pattern called for to make a casing for the hoop skirt :)

    - Kay Dee

  22. MiraxTHorn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 2000
    star 4
    Ok, I think I've got a better idea of what you're talking about now, kay-dee. Those pics from the Green Velvet and links are very helpful too, Jayne. Thank you both!

    Do either of you happen to know how much difference there is between the width of an Elizabethan farthingale and a Civil War hoopskirt? I bought this pattern, but I'm thinking it might be too full?

    Regards,
    M.
  23. jadedknights Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2002
    star 1
    I can't wait to see someone's gown. Mirax T, I think the farthingale's more of a "coned" shaped than round. I can vouch for your pattern though. I made that one myself and it's really round. It had such a really big circumference (?) I had to cut it down to 90". Did I help any? :) I'd definitely stick to the farthingale.

    Jen
  24. kay_dee Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2002
    star 4
    The shape of a farthigale is more like an even cone, while the hoop skirt you have a link to is a rounded bell shape. I think you need to switch to the cone shape of the Farthingale. Off hand, I think this Simplicity #8881 pattern would work well for the gown. The pattern I used was some kind of historical "Spanish Farthingale" pattern and the circumference was a little smaller than Simplicity's version of a Farthingale.

    So yes, I think the Dark Senate hoop skirt looks like the Elizabethan Simplicity Pattern rather than the Civil War style.

    - Kay Dee

  25. Jayne Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 16, 2002
    star 2
    Hmm, I totally did not know that pattern included undergarments. Even more to like about it! Is it still available in stores?

    Another great Elizabethan costuming link:

    http://costume.dm.net/

    Drea Leed's site used to be THE place to go. Things like corsets and farthingales will be under undergarments or underpinings. Great place to search for links.
Moderators: Commander-DWH