Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith (Non-Spoilers)' started by Emperor_Sebulba, May 24, 2002.
If this thoery is true then how would they explain what happened to her? I say just let it be.
To anyone who truly knows about storytelling-
Who wants Padme to die of childbirth or natural cause?
I don't. I want her killed. That's right. The key to storytelling is emotion. We all obviously truly care for Padme. Meaning Lucas done great in her character development, monotone acting and all!
But my point- if she is killed on-screen, imagine the emotion. It could end up being one of the strongest character deaths in any movie. In Episode I, she was a tragic character. Her planet was taken over, her people almost wiped out. Episode II- a mere Senator for Naboo. She falls for Darth Vader. That's not good. Again, another tragedy.
We all love Padme and her character. So- why not have a very tragic death scene? No, I don't suggest that the Death Star shoot her and blow her frickin' guts all over the place. Just a nice, clean death scene. Maybe even by Anakin. Imagine if Anakin ran her through with a saber. That would be so awesome. And don't even say it would be too much for Star Wars- Qui Gon had it done to him by a satanic character.
If Padme "just dies" I'll be terribly upset. I won't even cry. However, if she is murdered by whoever, and the right music plays, wow, what a scene it could be. We all love Padme, and we truly care about her character. Not only that, but she mothers Luke and Leia...which automatically makes her close to SW fans.
She shouldn't just die of natural cause. I say she should be killed off. If anyone disagrees...well, sorry. But it would be so much better if she is killed off. Especially if Anakin done it.
So, here's to Padme just "not dying" but being murdered, on-screen.
I agree Sabersparx. Padme is too important to die offscreen and she's too strong to die of natural cause at age 25 or so. She should be murdered. Anakin killing her would be the most dramamtic, but I don't know if that would happen. Palpatine killing her would be good too. I'd love a scene similar to the end of RotJ where Palpatine is killing Padme with Anakin looking on. But instead of saving her, like he did Luke, Anakin would just let her die.
No matter what happens she derserves a fitting, dramamtic death. And it's a death the fans should see.
(This is a revised version of what I posted in the old "Fate of Padme" thread.)
If we're speculating about the fate of Padme in Ep. III, it's not really logical to offer our emotions as evidence (as in "I'll be really upset if they don't show Padme's death," etc.). If GL spent all his time worrying about how to satisfy the fan base, there would have never a Jar-Jar, etc. So what do we know? (I'm leaving out novelizations--just facts from the films.)
Fact 1) Padme obviously dies at some point between the birth of the twins and ANH (so between the end of of Ep. II and ANH).
Fact 2) Leia remembers Padme; Luke does not remember Padme; Luke and Leia don't remember each other.
Conclusions: Luke and Leia must have the same capacity to remember--even if you subscribe to the theory that their force-sensitivity would allow them to remember things from infancy, there's no reason to think that Leia would have a better ability to remember early events than Luke. I don't buy this infant memory theory anyway: if the twins were capable of remembering their infancy, why wouldn't they both remember each other? Why wouldn't they both remember their mother? So the disparity in their memories suggests the following:
a) Luke and Leia are separated before they are old enough to remember each other.
b) Luke and Padme are separated before he is old enough to remember her.
c) Leia and Padme stay together long enough for Leia to remember Padme.
d) Hence, Leia and Padme must stay together for some period of time after the separation of the twins.
Judging from the average human ability to remember things, Leia has to be at least 2-4 years old to know and remember her mother. In other words, it's not likely that Padme dies in childbirth or very soon after the birth of the twins.
Fact 3) It's not clear if Vader knows he has children before ESB; he definitely does not know that Padme had twins (hence: "Sister? Obi-Wan was wise to hide her from me"--excuse me if I just flubbed that line a little).
Conclusion: Anakin's fall must occur before the birth of the twins--otherwise the circumstances (and number!) of their birth would not be so hidden/confused for their father. So there's not really much of a chance that the birth of the twins will occur between Ep. II and Ep. III--as I think we all agree that Anakin's fall has to be shown in Ep. III.
Furthermore, if Anakin's fall is before the birth of the twins, then his fall (and Ep. III) probably takes place anywhere from 2-4 years before Padme's death. No previous Star Wars movie has show the passage of years--they all depict the events of a few days or a few weeks. And Ep. III will also have to show (I think by general consensus) the fall of the republic, the rise of the empire, the clone wars, and the crumbling of the Jedi order. That's a lot of story for 2-2.5 hours.
So I don't think its probable that Padme's death will be shown on-screen in Ep. III unless GL doesn't maintain continuity with the OT. And in that case, all bets on everything in Ep. III are off.
Padme is too strong willed to let her children suffer. Giving into Anakin and such isn't the same as your own children.
Anyways, she can't die on Alderaan because Leia says she died when she was very young.
All you "Padme has to survive" people are overlooking one very large thing:
You can't leave a MAIN characters future unexlained. In Episode III we will learn that Padme has accomplished nothing, whereas the heroes of the OT accomplished the fall of the Empire, so they can be left alone in the future.
If we don't see Padme die, it will be bad storytelling because you can't let loose ends like that go.
Oh my GAWD if Palpatine electrocutes her as Anakin lets him without stopping him...WHOA.
WHOA X 300
I mean...that would just be so awesome. And it would greatly foreshadow the end of ROTJ.
lol, now if this doesn't happen, I'll be disappointed.
In terms of tragic storytelling, "resolution" does not equal "death on screen of all major characters." If Padme survives Ep. III (which I believe for the many reasons that I listed above), it doesn't mean that her storyline will be left hanging.
In general storytelling, you don't need to know every detail about a character from his/her birth to his/her death. To use a Star Wars example, I don't need to know all about Han Solo's childhood to understand his character in the OT--and I don't need to know what happens after ROTJ to feel as if his character's story line has been resolved. His transformation from rascal to hero is complete in the movies. Anything before or after the films is irrelevent to his story arc: I don't need to know if he marries Leia or if they eventually have a house, 2.5 children, a dog, and a cat.
So in Padme's case, her story line is essentially tragic. She'll have lost everything--her husband, her son, her friends, the Republic that she loves. We don't need to see her die to know that her life is tragic.
Anyway, in the hands of a good storyteller, it can be more tragic for a character to survive than it is for them to die.
I know this thread's been pushed back a little, but I think I'll put my two cents in. In short, Anakin somehow comes to believe Padme dies. He pins the whole thing on Obi-Wan, and a duel ensues. Anakin knows she is pregnant, but not with twins, he thinks all is lost, and that he has failed. THis will be the turning point in his life. Remember Anakin telling his dead mother he was not strong enough, and that he failed, and that he would not fail again. Yet, he failed, or so he thought. So IMO, no Padme doesn't die. Not so short, but, eh, whatcha gonna do.
Perhaps Obi-Wan will be assigned to protect Padme. Since she doesn't like hiding, she will get killed by an assassin. Perhaps Nute Gunray will finally get her killed. No matter how she dies, Palpatine will convince Anakin that it is Obi-Wan's fault. Thus, their epic battle would begin.
as Count Dooku has said: "She will die!"
She does die.. Leia said so. I think her part will be like this. When Leia talks about her mother in Episode VI.. it will go into a flashback of Padme. I doubt she's going to show up in the movie as an old lady.
Of course she dies. Just not in Ep. III.
I meant in Episode III. So... She will die in Episode III
Expect people to say she doesn't die because of that rumor "confirmed" by Horizon that she'll be reinserted into ROTJ DVD.
And if it's true, then it is indeed sad, the OT will look even more patchwork, andm ess up the pacing of ROTJ even more.
Actually, perhaps George does have something in store with making people THINK Padme is dead in Ep3.
After all, he edited that plotline out of the beginning of AOTC, which would make sense if he intended to use it later on.
All you "Padme must die" folks have offered a lot of interesting theories about how that might happen, but...
All of them contradict the evidence regarding Padme from Leia and Luke's conversation in ROTJ. Your theories can only be true if GL throws continuity out the window. Of course, if GL throws continuity out the window on such an important issue, absolutely anything can happen and the integrity of all six episodes will be completely undermined. I don't think that's going to happen, and I still haven't seen one piece of hard evidence from TPM, AOTC, or the CT that Padme dies in Ep. III.
Give me convincing evidence (not aesthetic arguments and not personal preference), and I'll believe ya.
Edit: By the way, I agree with you all that the Portman news is irrelevant--it doesn't prove anything either way. But in the same way, all your aesthetic arguments about character resolution and good storytelling are also irrelevant--they also don't prove anything either way.
Here's one big hunk of evidence: Episode III will be the "middle" movie. She's a main character, then she disappears and has no relevance to three more movies?
Unless you're used to bad storytelling, you'd know that leaving a loose end THAT huge is terrible.
That's not evidence--that's your opinion of what constitutes good storytelling.
As far as I'm concerned, evidence = SW canon = TPM, AOTC, ANH, TESB, and ROTJ.
Someone already mentioned this but I'll say it myself. How do we know Leia is actually Talking about Padme in ROTJ? She only knows of herself as Leia Organa, not Amidala, Skywalker, or Naberrie (depends which name Padme decides to use after the wedding). Being raised as Organa means that the real mother is also Organa, her adopted mother. So, that's what I think.
It's not necessarily "bad storytelling" to have Padme die offscreen between eps 3 and 4. As someone already mentioned, a capable storyteller can make that even more tragic. There are more ways to wrap up a character's story arc than "SHE DIES".
You know, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Padme ended up in the New Jedi Order, alive and well, yet aged and senile. Most folks will say that is absurd as can be. But you never know because the StarWars galaxy is huge. I've read through all of the opinions, and all of the theories.
If Padme dies then it might be of a broken heart. Maybe she goes a long time without eating or sleeping because she's too grieved. Sleep deprevation over a period of time leads to cardiac arrest. She will not be killed at all on top of all that grief. That would be nasty. Also, if she dies, it will be after Anakin has turned to the dark side and left her behind. She gives birth to Luke and Leia, then goes to Alderaan and weeps until death about what has happened to her world, to her Annie, to her children, to the Republic. It will all be gone. Then there's Obi-Wan, and Yoda who will be awaiting the new hope, Luke Skywalker. She may even leave Alderaan and return to Naboo.
It has been mentioned that Padme would never just stand aside and let her children struggle without her being there if she remained alive. But what could she do? The Empire at this point has total control of most of the galaxy, and even at the height of the Rebellion there's nothing that neither great Jedi Masters like Yoda and Obi-Wan can do about it. If they can't do much but stay in hiding then what could Padme do?
But Padme, showed she was sad in TPM, showed more strength and courage. "I will take back what's ours". While she could be very well downcast about the loss of Anakin and what he has become, she should also know as a mother, as a woman who gave birth, that her son Luke would right the wrong that Anakin did, and that one day in the future, when the Empire has fallen, at least one of her children would search her out.
But I doubt if GL will let EU explain anything as regards to Padme Skywalker. But my personal opinion is he should.
Sounds good, but old and senile. No, I'd expect that from Yoda, but not Padme. *LOL*
She only knows of herself as Leia Organa, not Amidala, Skywalker, or Naberrie (depends which name Padme decides to use after the wedding). Being raised as Organa means that the real mother is also Organa, her adopted mother.
Theoretically, it's possible that Leia isn't talking about Padme as her "real mother" in ROTJ.
However, I don't think it's probable. What sticks out to me is Luke's insistence on the phrase your "real mother." There's no reason to use the word real if he isn't trying to distinguish between her real mother (Padme) and someone else who she considers her mother. Think about normal human conversation. When I refer to my own brother or my friend's brother, I say "my brother" or "your brother." Not "my real brother" or "your real brother." If I was talking to a friend in a fraternity, however, where the word brother is used to refer to people other than one's blood relatives, then I might use the phrase "your real brother."
Furthermore, Leia's behavior in this scene strongly suggests that she already knows that she is adopted. In particular, she really doesn't have much trouble accepting the news that Luke is her real brother and Vader is a real father. Surely if she thought she was an Organa, her reaction would have been something along the lines of "What on earth are you talking about?"
Sure, if Leia is wrong, Padme could die during Episode III. That I'll happily admit. But once you start assuming that characters from the CT are that confused/wrong, you open a huge can of worms.
In that case, do we really know that Darth Vader is Luke's father? Maybe he made a mistake! Sorry, I'm being facetious, but you get my point.
If Padme doesn't marry Bail Organa, then the mother she speaks of definitely isn't Padme...
If Padme doesn't marry Bail Organa, then the mother she speaks of definitely isn't Padme...
Huh? Explain the logic of this to me.