Pahk your cah in the yahd: The Bawston Red Sox Thread

Discussion in 'Archive: The Arena' started by Saper, Nov 21, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Onoto Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2004
    star 5
    The Sox should retire Wakefield's number when he retires. Ol' #49 has done a lot for the Sox over the years and he deserves that much.
  2. Baron-Soontir-Fel Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 15, 2005
    star 5
    Now hold on. Wakefield was a solid contributor, but how many teams retire the # of a 3rd/4th starter? I'd say Pedro, Manny and Ortiz have the best shots of getting their #s retired by the Red Sox.
  3. Onoto Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2004
    star 5
    Maybe you're right. I agree that while Wake's played well (over about a decade of work for the Sox he's posted over 150 wins, a WHIP of less than 1.35, almost 1700 strikeouts, and an ERA almost half a run lower than league average), he hasn't been legendary. What I think makes him worthy of the Red Sox Hall of Fame and quite possibly number retirement is that he's been a tremendously positive influence on the club during the years he's been in Boston.

    He's done everything the organization's asked of him, and done it pretty darned well. He's been our ace ('95), closer and spot starter ('99-'02), and he's carried the team on his back ('03 ALCS; they wouldn't have gotten to Game 7 without him). The fact that he's been willing to change his role depending on the team's needs says a lot about his character. Most athletes would refuse to sacrifice their own starts, their own spot in the rotation, but Wake has been more than willing to do so for the team.

    Remember how in the '04 ALCS he threw 3.1 innings in that 19-8 shellacking? That saved the bullpen a lot of throwing, which was very fortunate considering how deep Games 4 and 5 went. Wakefield gave up his scheduled start to help the club. Another example of his great character would be when he signed a contract with the Sox with almost nothing in the way of security when he could have gone someplace else and made not only more, but guaranteed money. Wake wanted to stay a part of the team, and he did what was necessary to make that happen. He's a wonderful role model - a hard worker, a team player - and that really should mean something.

    I guess all I'm saying is Wake's been a better-than-average pitcher for more than a decade, shown fantastic character and leadership, and in general been a great guy to have around. I love the guy as much as I can love a man I've never met. I can't imagine the Sox without him. Maybe that isn't enough to have his number retired, but if it was up to me, it would be.
  4. DT421 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2003
    star 5
    Even though they won the Series, I wouldn't retire any of their numbers. That kind of thing needs to be reserved for the rediculously great ball players of a franchise - ever.

    Wake - meh.
    Manny - wanting out of Boston every year. No.
    Papi - Keep producing and we'll see.

    I'm mean were talking Williams and Yaz worthiness here. Even though I love Wake, Manny and Papi, they aren't at that level.
  5. Onoto Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2004
    star 5
    Don't forget about Bobby Doerr. They retired his number, and as good a player as he was (he deserved to be inducted into Cooperstown), Manny's better. Still, all in all, you're probably right. If I were king of the world, I'd do it, but as I'm not...

    I still believe that the organization needs to come up with something to honor Wake. Maybe instead of his number being retired, Wake gets into the Red Sox Hall of Fame and whatnot.
  6. Baron-Soontir-Fel Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 15, 2005
    star 5
    So I assume by skipping Pedro's name you believe he is worthy of having 45 retired. He gave the Sox some of the greatest pitching seasons in this generation, and was a great competitor.
  7. Onoto Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2004
    star 5
    You could make the argument that when Pedro at his peak he was the best ever. They've got to retire his number.
  8. New_York_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2002
    star 6

    He didn't play enough years with the sox. You need ten years of playing for them.
  9. DT421 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2003
    star 5
    Well, I made that post rather quickly without going and looking up every retired numbered player and listing all other potential retirees.

    IMO, with the way free agency is and the way players come and go, I just don't see any numbers being retired any time soon. I think it should be more than just numbers that a player puts up.

    Pedro, I'd say no. He was great - between April and August. Come Sept and Oct - he stunk.

    Of course this all simply an opinion. No biggy.

  10. Baron-Soontir-Fel Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 15, 2005
    star 5
  11. DT421 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2003
    star 5
    I'm not denying his greatness. I just don't think it's great enough. And as I said before, it isn't simply just about stats.

    He didn't play in Boston for a terribly long time and he took off to the Mets for $$$. Boston loved him and he split for money.
  12. Baron-Soontir-Fel Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 15, 2005
    star 5
    Okay, Mr. Intangible, who was the guy who wasn't afraid to pitch inside to anybody and gave the Red Sox an edge when he pitched?

    So I assume you have the same flippant views on Damon, who also left because he wanted a four year deal. Not that Damon is an all time great Red Sock, but he contributed a lot.
  13. Onoto Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2004
    star 5
    Pedro's coming out of the Bullpen against Cleveland in '99 to throw six innings of no-hit ball is enough for me. Just as good as - if not better than - the Bloody Sock Game.

    Still, I suppose that New_York_Jedi has a legitimate point about most of these guys. Except Wake, of course.:p
  14. New_York_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2002
    star 6
    I'm not denying Pedro is/was brilliant and is definitely a hall of famer. But the Red Sox, unless they change their guidelines (like they did for Fisk- you used to have to retire as a Red Sox player to have your number retired), can't retire Pedro's number. Or Wakefield's, unless he makes the hall of fame. Which he probably won't. ;)
  15. Onoto Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2004
    star 5
    Speaking of retiring numbers, did y'all see how the Astros retired Bagwell's no. 5? They've retired eight numbers overall. What happens first? They win a championship or run out of jerseys?

    Sox are sitting pretty right now. 7.5 up, 31 to go. Oi vey.
  16. DT421 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2003
    star 5
    Name a pitcher with the Sox that is afraid to pitch inside.

    And I'm pretty sure I share the same views, regarding Damon, along with a few million other Sox fans.

    I guess I was just lucky enough to be old enough to remember sports before it became a 'business'. Players, the team and the city all had loyalty to one another. It's not really like that anymore and it kind makes it hard to embrace players like you used to.

    Papi has a good thing going right now. If he stays around a while, I could see the Sox easily retiring his number.
  17. DT421 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2003
    star 5
    The Yanks are getting hammered 10-0 by the Tigers right now. That'll put us up 8 games going into the series with them tomorrow.
  18. Onoto Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2004
    star 5
    The Yanks lost 16-0. Mussina couldn't get an out this month if you spotted him two strikes.:D
  19. DT421 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2003
    star 5
    They call Buchholz up from Pawtucket and he throws a No-Hitter!!! [face_dancing]

    Only his second career start in the Majors.
  20. tulakhordpwns Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2007
    star 2
    Does anyone else find it odd that now the red sox and yankees have all these good prospects? Usually they just get veteran free agents. Buchholz is going to be good.
  21. Onoto Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2004
    star 5
    What I'm amazed at is that a guy has thrown a ho-hitter in one of his first two starts twice before. That's just crazy.

    I have to give a big pat on the back to Epstein and Co. I love how they've been focusing on young pitching and building through the draft as opposed to doing what other big money teams do (selling their prospects for veterans). We've really seen that shining through the past couple of days, what with Pedroia, Buchholz, Lester, and Ellsbury coming through for the club this past series, and I thought it warranted a comment.

    6 up. 25 to go.
  22. Master-Fett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 25, 2002
    star 6
    Five and a half lead... 18 games left... four games vs the Yankees.... its gunna be a long rest of the season.
  23. Ryno Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2002
    star 4
    Tough loss for the Sox and Schilling.

    Kazmir is going to look really good in a Red Sox or Yankees uniform someday.
  24. Baron-Soontir-Fel Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 15, 2005
    star 5
    If he keeps up his Red Sox ownage, Steinbrenner is gonna throw Fort Knox at him.
  25. Ryno Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2002
    star 4
    That's assuming the Old Man is still around, which I hope he is since he makes it fun, when Kaz hits the open market.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.