Pain....Terrible Pain.

WHen anakin decides to go butcher the sandppl, yoda feels his pain and remarks to windu

"Pain...skywalker is in terrible pain.."

Now, is there any reason windu and/or yoda do not grill anakin about this pain, and what was happening to him? He is supposed to be the chosen one, and its obvious from rots they have their eyes on him. SO what gives? IMO quite a bit could have come from such a short interview; once they learned what he did, they could have halted his training and expelled him from the order or something, saving the jedi from betrayal later on.

 

Well if he did get expelled, he would still be the most powerful person with the force in the galaxy. They knew he had a mother and if he found out if something bad happened to her he was going to be angry. They just couldn't expell him. He is The Chosen One, you said it.

 

They expel him and we get the events of ROTS a few years earlier, he feels the Jedi have betrayed him and his good friend Palpatine is there to help him get back on his feet, either way you end up with Anakin becoming a Sith.

 

Agreed. He would have been a liability in any case...it was one of those Catch 22 situations.

 

Yes, but why did they never ask him what happened? DId yoda just forget about what he felt? And keep in mind when I mean expell, I mean whatever it is the jedi do with trangresssors within their ranks. Whateever it would have been, it would easily have removed anakin as a threat forever. (anakin was never a match for windu or yoda or even kenobi, as can be seen from rots). In aotc trebor coleman could have subdued anakin easily.

 

that's always bothered me, too.

why don't they address any of this?

likewise when yoda's giving advice in ROTS and anakin plainly states, i'll not let this happen again. why not talk to him some more?

find out what's wrong. or maybe listen a little more attentive.

 

I'm sure that Anakin was questioned. And most likely he told them that his mother was killed, but he probably left out the fact that he slaughtered the tusken raiders.

 

Where is it stated that Yoda/Mace never questioned Anakin ? I find it hard to believe that Yoda with all his wisdom and insight would not do so after the events of AOTC.

And during that questioning, its logical to assume that Anakin would not mention the sand people slaughter, and report only about his dead mother.

 

Actually, if they did know, they'd be foolish not to expell him. To keep training him would be most unwise. Remember, he gained a lot of power between AOTC and ROTS.

 

It's true that they would be foolish not to expell him if they knew. Anakin should never have even gone to Tatooine, much less slaughtered the Sand People. The Jedi encourage love, however, they aren't understanding when one of their own experience it. That's totally understandable to me. If Jedi are caught up in outside events, they think about things other than their duty. It's just not a good idea.

 

Good point Smuggler...Anakin was compromised from the beginning. He was too old to start the training. He had already formed too many attachments. Tatooine was his coup de grace.

 

Actually, if they did know, they'd be foolish not to expell him. To keep training him would be most unwise. Remember, he gained a lot of power between AOTC and ROTS.

They'd be foolish if they did expel him. It has been shown that there are plenty of people who the Jedi have rejected that have gone on to become powerful force users who shroud themselves in the dark side. You're telling me that if Anakin was expelled that he wouldn't end up being trained to further use his powers by a Sidious, Dooku, Ventress, or some other powerful force user who doesn't believe in the Jedi. Anakin at that point in time was destined to be the most powerful Jedi ever, to expel him would have been utter foolishness bordering on downright stupidity on the part of the Council.

 

They knew his mom died. But didn't know he slaugjhyteterd all the sand people.

 

Please at least pay attention to the other posts people have spent time writing. The point has already been made that Jedi would never simply 'expel' transgressors without making sure they will never represent a threat. We do not know how this is done in canon,

1) Perhaps said 'threat's' connection to the force can be severed somehow?
2) Put 'threat' into house arrest in the jedi temple. Without training or even allowed use of saber skills anakin would no longer be a threat.

Whatever the case, keep in mind the jedi MUST have someway of dealing with a threat such as this. For instance, even though mace and the 'posse' knew sidious was a sith lord, they gave him the option of turning himself over.

When anakin was standing over dooku with palpatine telling him to kill dooku, anakin was torn; obviously there was some method the jedi would have used to deal with dooku without killing him otherwise anakin would not have hesitated in killing him.

This is an obvious plothole, and a rather large one I might add since it shows Yoda, of all jedi, was lacking in his duties big time. However, I have rationalized it like this:

Anakin is grilled by Yoda. He says that he had dreams of his mom, went to find her, was too late in saving her from death at the hands of torture. However, before he could make off with her body, tusken raiders came upon him and in self defense he killed them; they ran away. (thus anakin leaves out killing children).

The above theory though still has a few holes though, but not much to be done about it.

 

well the didnt halt his training back when he was like 8 years old, they didn't want to train him but they did. and its the force dudes

the force is in control everything.

I don't know why the heck the force had to go and make anikan turn bad and kill tons of people, and I don't get why he had to go threw so much crap. but really, if they did halt his traning there would be no luke skywalker or anything, it would SUCK!

 

Please at least pay attention to the other posts people have spent time writing. The point has already been made that Jedi would never simply 'expel' transgressors without making sure they will never represent a threat. We do not know how this is done in canon,

1) Perhaps said 'threat's' connection to the force can be severed somehow?
2) Put 'threat' into house arrest in the jedi temple. Without training or even allowed use of saber skills anakin would no longer be a threat.

I have paid attention to all of the other posts, you're just failing to grasp the concept of just how powerful Anakin is, even during AOTC. There have been plenty of cases of people learning how to become somewhat powerful force users even without the aid of Jedi training, now in the case of someone who is already very naturally strong in the force like Anakin is, he doesn't need the Jedi training in order to learn how to use the force. Even if they sequestered him away he would still continue to train himself in the force, there's no way they can stop him from meditating, from looking inward for strength, and they can't cut him off from the force, that's never been done, so they wouldn't be able to do it out of the blue with Anakin.

Mace Windu makes the observation that Sidious is too strong and dangerous to take into custody, and it would be the same way with Anakin. To have someone who is as strong with the force as he is kept away meditating on the force all the time and building up his anger and resentment towards the Jedi would lead to one very strong and pissed off Anakin, which is exactly what we get in ROTS.

 

This doesn't exactly have to do with the question at hand, but there was something I noticed the other day while watching AOTC for the upteenth time (I rented it and only had it for a few days, so I watched it a million times so I'd start noticing things and such. God I'd kill for the dvds to the saga X_x)

At the scene where you quoted Yoda, the sounds of pain and screams and what not is accompanied by Vader's breathing. One breath, but still. It totally freaked me out when I heard that (just because I didn't expect for it), and I've always wondered about why that was done. Obviously it was to keep people understanding what turned Anakin, but Yoda was the one hearing it.

I may be putting too much credit into the little green guy(I'm still pretty new at Star wars, just warning you guys I'm not a 20+ year long fan or anything XP).

I always thought that Yoda possibly knew Vader was going to come about. Maybe not directly or completely, but I just can't get that possibility out of my head. Not only did I notice that scene with Yoda sensing Anakin's pain(with the back-sound of Vader's breath), but Yoda gave Anakin absolutely horrible advise concerning his premonitions of Padme. I do know that Yoda is not stupid, and to tell someone like Anakin 'Learn to let go and be happy that they're dead' is complete idiocy. I feel like Yoda might have known, in a subtle way, that Anakin would turn. But that could just be me.

I know this isn't really about what the question was, but it's just something that I noticed about the scene that I've been wondering about.

 

If anakin was so powerful in aotc how did he get crushed by dooku? How did he get captured and put into the arena? I can understand you are an anakin fanboy, but at least try to look past your prejudice and try to grasp the concept that the order could have made sure, if it wanted to, that anakin would not longer be a threat (notice obi-wan used a more violent way of doing the same at the end of rots when he crushed anakin). Its ridiculous to think otherwise. Thereafter, once they were sure he was properly disciplined and the threat of the sith had passed, they could have started retraining him and bringing him back into the light.

In tpm, even though he was 9 yrs old, he had not murdered anyone in cold blood with a lightsaber and using the force. (the fluke with the trade fed ship was not really murder ofcourse, but an act of 'heroism')

As for mace, he gave palpatine the option of turning himself in prior to fighting. You ought to have paid more attention in rots.

 

The jedi are blind and stupid. There simply is no other explanation to it (IMO). They keep om ignoring important clues/hints on other matters as well. (Did they question Nute after TPM? They could have found out that Maul was the apprentice. Clones/Jango..No questions. Padme and Anakin..Padme leaps into Ani's arms after Dooku escapes..No one wonders what their relationship is). So ofcourse they should have grilled Anakin. Obi has conserns but no one cares. The jedi are stupid. They deserved to be wiped out

 

Yeah, the Jedi should have questioned him more thoroughly on this one. It seems that Anakin has put all his trust in Sidious though, since he seems to know all about the incident.
("Remember what you told me about your mother, and the sand people?")

 

It's never stated that Yoda didn't question him about what happened on Tatooine. I'm sure he must have done. How much Anakin told Yoda, how much Yoda told the rest of the Jedi and what action was taken, is open to question, but I'm sure it would have been brought up.

 

If anakin was so powerful in aotc how did he get crushed by dooku? How did he get captured and put into the arena? I can understand you are an anakin fanboy, but at least try to look past your prejudice and try to grasp the concept that the order could have made sure, if it wanted to, that anakin would not longer be a threat (notice obi-wan used a more violent way of doing the same at the end of rots when he crushed anakin). Its ridiculous to think otherwise. Thereafter, once they were sure he was properly disciplined and the threat of the sith had passed, they could have started retraining him and bringing him back into the light.

Here's the problem, you're completely missing the point. Nowhere am I saying that the Jedi wouldn't be able to discipline Anakin, they certainly would be able to discipline Anakin. However, everything that we have ever been shown about Anakin tells us that their discipline wouldn't work, because Anakin is guided by his emotions more than any other Jedi. There's also the problem of you not being able to differentiate between how strong Anakin actually is during AOTC, and the potential strength that he has inside. Why is it that every single Jedi that is in the prequels is able to look at Anakin and go, "Whoah, this kid is going to be massively powerful someday" yet you easily dismiss him as weak because of his shortcomings as a Padawan?

Therein lies the problem of your theory of the Jedi reprogramming Anakin, it just wouldn't happen. There's the issue of the Jedi not really wanting to mess with one of their own, they've had problems with Jedi in the past, but they never try to reprogram them, they try to bring them back into the fold, but they do so through natural almost caring methods as opposed to the military like reprogramming that you seem to want them to impose on Anakin. This is where you neglecting to realize the potential strength that Anakin has, to go along with his already considerable amount of strength in AOTC that you ignore, is also a problem. Someone who is as headstrong and as potentially strong as Anakin is isn't go to just sit back and let things happen, he will use his time when he is supposed to be being disciplined to look into the force and continue to make himself stronger so that he can do what he thinks is right.

It's also very nice that when someone is able to come into the discussion and present an argument that isn't the same as yours you respond by calling that person an "Anakin Fanboy." Resorting to that type of argument is always the first sign of someone who can't really back up his argument at all and instead has to grasp for anything to try and discredit the points that the other person is making. Do I like Anakin? The answer is yes, but that doesn't make me an Anakin fanboy, I also happen to like Mace Windu and Obi-Wan Kenobi, so I guess I must be fanboys of them as well, since lord knows if I ever try to argue any valid points about them that's what I would be in your world.

As for mace, he gave palpatine the option of turning himself in prior to fighting. You ought to have paid more attention in rots.

Mace did give Sidious the option of turning himself in, but then he fought Sidious, and realized that he was both too powerful and too cunning to let live. This goes back to the point of how the Jedi would have no way to cut Sidious off from the force, or to contain his power, so therefore Sidious would just continue to get stronger while continuing to harbor his resentment towards the Jedi. It would be the same exact situation with Anakin if the Jedi decided that they needed to expel him from the order and place him under some sort of "arrest", all of the reasons for why they could never "expel" Anakin from the order for his actions without there being reprecussions are right there for you to see, you just continue to ignore them.