Palpatine and Sidious - New Ideas.

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by billydeewilliams, May 19, 2002.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. billydeewilliams Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 1
    Beatzello, thankyou, thankyou. I think you're the only person whose understood what I've said. I'm going to repost your excellent message on my new thread all about the role of identity (especially Dual identity): The ULTIMATE mystery: Can YOU solve it?
  2. Undomiel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2002
    star 4
    I believe several other force-netters have also extrapolated on the possible dual identity of Palpatine and Sidious. In fact, I read a thread some 15 pages long, covering this same concept a few days ago [started by jedi-wanna-be]. It was the first I'd considered the idea, although I was reluctant to accept it. However, as the logic of it sank in, I realized it was not only possible but a great plot twist.

    Those who don't like to be wrong concerning his identity, and who have argued over this same topic following the release of TPM, have already stated they will be angry if such is the case. Some even say they would consider it a poor plot device. I think it's a marvellous idea. It would redeem the jedi, insofar as it would prove they are not completely inept. It would be hard for me to believe none of them would sense the dark side in Palpy at some point in their interactions with him if he were indeed the Sith Master Sidious. Even so, it's nigh on bizarre they don't sense Sidious' influence on Palpatine [at least Yoda appears to be catching on... finally].

    -Undomiel
    "Roads? Where we're going, we won't need roads." - Doc Brown, Back to the Future II
  3. billydeewilliams Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 1
    Yes Undomeil, yes. It would be a great plot twist, echoing events in TPM. I've read those threads you mention and seen so many people say: 'I'll hate it if that happens!' But i think there are going to be an awful lot of dissapointed people out there.

    At least i'm providing a valid reason as to why, Thematically, it's more than a distinct possibility.
  4. Boola Cronk Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 1999
    star 2
    sorry If I missed this but am I the only one that noticed that Palpatine was on Geonosis at the end and Sidious was in the industrial district of Coruscant? How do people still think they are the same when they are on 2 different planets. At least it looks like Geonosis to me, at the end when all the troops are loading up and leaving.

    I for one was a firm believer that Sid and Palp were one and the same at the end of TPM. In fact that is what GL wanted you to think at the end when the camera pans over to Palpatine at the funeral. Now at the end of AOTC it appears that GL is now trying to get us to think the opposite by having Sid and Palp on 2 different planets at the end.

    Any takers??

  5. Darth_OlsenTwins Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    Why are there some people that think that they are on Geonosis? They are on Coruscant.
  6. Boola Cronk Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 1999
    star 2
    Well namely the huge rock formations located in the background. It seems logical to me that they were being loaded up after the Geonosian war was over and were leaving the planet. Why would they be loading them up on Coruscant?
  7. Darth_OlsenTwins Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    Those rock formations are buildings.
  8. Anakin1337Skywalker Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2002
    only on a crappy bootleg could those buildings look like "rock formations."
    Someone call the PO-Lice on that fool.


  9. JMad_Dog Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    Just wanted to note the credits:
    Starring: Ewan McGregor (Obi-Wan Kenobi), Natalie Portman (Senator Padmé Amidala), Samuel L. Jackson (Mace Windu), Hayden Christensen (Anakin Skywalker), Ian McDiarmid (Supreme Chancellor Palpatine/Darth Sidious), Ahmed Best (Jar Jar Binks/Achk Med-Beq), Kenny Baker (R2-D2), Frank Oz (Yoda), Pernilla August (Shmi Skywalker), Anthony Daniels (C-3PO/Lieutenant Faytonni)

    You will notice that Ian McDiarmid plays both parts, that should be a big hint.
  10. Boola Cronk Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 1999
    star 2
    maybe they are buildings I only saw it once. Although the trailer looks like the rock formations on Geonosis. And are they loading the clones up or unloading them at the end, where all the ships are taking off?
  11. Darth_OlsenTwins Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    They are buildings. The lighting is the same as the two previous scenes on Coruscant as well.
  12. Disco_Dooku Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2002
    star 2
    BillyDee....nice theories!!!

    I have to agree with you and the OlsenTwins :) that Yoda and Mace know more than they are letting others believe. I think that it is something that even the rest of the JC is unaware of. If Syfo-Dyas was once a Jedi then "died" when he became a Sith/Dark Jedi and others on the Council knew about it, Ki-Adi's line in TPM wouldn't make sense.

    Ki-Adi: "The Sith have been extinct for a millenium."

    How could he make that statement if others on the Council knew what Yoda and Mace know. There is more there than meets the eye.

    This goes into you mystery thread.....there has to be a traitor.
  13. Boola Cronk Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 1999
    star 2
    Jmad_dog, you forgot to mention that Nute Gunray and Kiadi Mundi were also played by the same actor. Does that prove that Nute Gunray and Kiadi Mundi are the same person in the movie?
  14. JMad_Dog Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    Starring: Ewan McGregor (Obi-Wan Kenobi), Natalie Portman (Senator Padmé Amidala), Samuel L. Jackson (Mace Windu), Hayden Christensen (Anakin Skywalker), Ian McDiarmid (Supreme Chancellor Palpatine/Darth Sidious), Ahmed Best (Jar Jar Binks/Achk Med-Beq), Kenny Baker (R2-D2), Frank Oz (Yoda), Pernilla August (Shmi Skywalker), Anthony Daniels (C-3PO/Lieutenant Faytonni)

    Notice anything? Same actors?
  15. Boola Cronk Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 1999
    star 2
    Even if it isnt Geonosis, Palp and Sid are clearly in two different places on Coruscant at relatively the same time. I believe that GL is planning to pull a big 180 on us for Episode 3 on this whole Palp = Sidious debacle. All those who so firmly believe that Sid and Palp are the same person I think may be in for big surprise when EP3 comes. LOL!

  16. Darth_OlsenTwins Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    Now I can buy THAT timeline argument however. They are in two different places on Coruscant.
  17. taeseesiin Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 1
    Ok, BillyDee, I can understand your not being interested in the EU or what goes on outside the movies, but I still think that the overwhelming evidence IN the movies points to Palpatine and Sidious being one and the same person. I can understand your discounting of the EU, but how can you discount the fact that Lucas and McCallum have both unequivocally stated that Palpatine and Sidious are one and the same? I think the proponents of the theory that they are not the same person are reading WAY too much into things.
  18. Boola Cronk Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 1999
    star 2
    taeseesiin, Ive said this many times before. What you are quoting from RM and GL is simply a mis-quote. RM himself confirmed this at the Celebration when he said that they never stated that the character(s) Sid/Palp were the same person, they were only implying that both characters are played by the same actor.

    If they did come out and blatantly say the 2 were one and the same in the movie then that would ruin a rather important plot point that GL is obviously trying to obscure. No doubt about it, the Palp/Sid IS a mystery, otherwise there would not be such a huge debate about it among the fans. I believe GL knew what he was doing when he created the Sidious character, he knew it would keep people guessing all the way through to Episode 3. Kudos to GL for conceiving such an intriguing plot!


  19. billydeewilliams Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 1
    Yes Boola Cronk, I agree.

    And to my friend Darth Olsen: .
    You said:

    'Now I can buy THAT timeline argument however. They are in two different places on Coruscant.'

    So Mr Olsen, how do you expalin it?

    Let me know.
  20. NickDL32 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    since someone brought up the subject of leia remembering her mother, i jsut had this thought. why is it that leia can remember her mother but luke can;'t? i'm thinking that maybe luke and leia get separated at birth. luke may go off to live on the farm right away, and padme might run around with leia fro a few years before leia is given to the organa family.
  21. ObiDanKenobi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 1
    I thought it was quite obvious they were separated earlier, isnt there a line in ROTJ that says they were separated at birth?

    Anyway, nice theory about Paply & Sidious BillyDee - well thought out etc.

    One problem though....

    The databank on the official SW site says they are the same person - not just the same actor.

    Thats enough proof for me.

    http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/palpatine/index.html

    (unless of course you think they will change the info on the site when Ep III comes out to reveal a twist... very unlikely though id say.)
  22. tgmb Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 1
    Just a few thoughts on these related topics...

    I also keep coming back to the patterns in the OT that are being replayed in the PT. GL always seemed to come back to the simplest solution to the various questions in the OT. I remember spending lots of time after ESB trying to figure out who Vader really was, how the clone wars were related to who Vader really was, and became convinced that he was the clone of Anakin, with a whole backstory of why clones were the only way to defeat Jedi - but it turned out he really was Luke's dad, just like Vader said. But that didn't fit with what Ben told Luke in ANH? Well, the explanation was a simple as Ben admiting that he had just lied to Luke, which was the most straightforward solution (albeit very disappointing to me at the time).

    When I think back to ESB and RotJ, it seems to me that the only real mystery that was not solved between the two was who Yoda referred to as "another". I remember that the two serious contenders were Leia and Han, and I guessed Leia since it would instantneously elimimate the romantic triangle that had formed. All the other major plot points just played out from ESB straightforwardly once you decided that Vader really was dad and got past the denial and desire to make things complicated.

    In the same way in AOTC, Dooku reveals the truth of the situation to Obi Wan, implying that Palpy is Sidious, but Obi-Wan (and the other Jedi) choose not to believe him in the same was as Luke didn't immediately (outwardly) believe Vader. My guess is the solution will be as simply as before - everything really is as Dooku says, and whereas before we had the revelation that Leia was Luke's sister, here we will have that Sifo-dyas was Sidious using an assumed name to create the army that he knew would play into his plans. Like Ben lying to Luke, it's not as exciting as we might like, but it is the most obvious solution.

    Key things from this movie that I think will play out in ep3: Anakin talking about becoming powerful enough to stop people from dying; Anakin and Padme's common understanding that trying to live a lie will have destructive consequences; Yoda's shock at hearing Qui-Gon's voice and the implications it has on the way the force is behaving. I've come up with any number of theories to explain how these will play out, but I'm having doubts about all of them. I think all of these things will play into the story explaining why Anakin crosses the line, and for both the Jedi and us to understand what "bringing balance to the force" really means. These are the major plot items related to the main story that need to be resolved, and I think they'll be the focus of ep3. I also think the resolution will have to explain why Obi Wan and Yoda wind up in their OT states...
  23. ObiDanKenobi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 1
    Anakin brings balance to the force when he kills sidious at the end of ROTJ...

  24. Darth_Cronus Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    I guess I'll throw in my two cents also. Palpatine is Darth Sidious aka the Emperor. If you look at the credits for ROTJ, it lists actor Ian McDiarmid as playing the Empoeror. Now why does that name sound familiar? Maybe its because he plays Palpatine in both TPM and AOTC. It never hurts to check the actors lists.
  25. billydeewilliams Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 1
    Er...seeing as the whole premise is they are twins / clones thye'd have to be played by the same actor wouldn't they? Unless Ian has a twin....

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.