Palpatine and Sidious - New Ideas.

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by billydeewilliams, May 19, 2002.

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  1. Senator_Thunder Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2002
    It's entirely possible that he is Sidious, even though that they look different in AOTC. Remember that the Emperor is a master of deception and if Palpatine is the Emperor, then he could be giving off the appearance of a younger look as Sidious. We can't see Sidious's entire face to know for certain.

    As for Palpatine seemingly aging rapidly, keep in mind that in ROTJ, the Emperor looked extremely old, with the wrinkled face and the seemingly false dependence on his cane. That would certainly chime in with Palpatine being the Emperor wrt to the aging issue.
  2. Darth_Tarsh Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2002
    star 1
    hmm......Palp has blue eyes.....the emperor has yellow eyes......we haven`t seen Sidious eyes so far.....
  3. donvegasjr Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    I personally think that Palp and Sidious are the same. But just to clear something up once and for all.

    The starwars.com databank mentions that Palp is/ will become the emperor, it NEVER says that Palp & the Emp are Darth Sidious.
  4. JMad_Dog Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    They may be the same actor but come on, they don't look anything like eachother, they're so convered in make-up you couldn't mix them up. Look at the Palpatine and Sidious's chin, they look the same. They are the same...
  5. vaibhav Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2002
    Can someone explain me this:

    How could Leia remember her mother but not Luke? After all they are twins!

    Therefore I feel that Padme does survive long enough for Leia to recall her while Luke is packed off to Tatooine.

    I believe that just as Luke defeated Vader, Anakin defeated Dooku to become Sidious' apprentice.

    Sidious = Palpatine cause finally all six films cover one huge story. Sidious and Palpatine being different would make the whole story too complex. Star Wars is simple!
  6. nightlight Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2002
    hey - palpatine and sidious weren't at to different places in the end of AOTC. Where do you see that?
  7. Darth_Marvellous Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2002
    Palpy is NOT Sid' for one good reason:

    Can you honestly see the sumpreme leader of billions of planets just popping out to sith town to put on his robes...

    Guard:"My lord where are you going?"
    Palpy:"err, just to the loo mate wont be a tick"
    Guard:"what? again!?" TO himself: hmm what is with him?

    or

    Yoda on the holophone: "Hello is anyone there?"
    Answer Machine: This is the sumpreme chancelors office, im afraid im out at the moment but you can contact me at my other office on the dark side of the planet. I would would like to leave a message....."
    Yoda: "Hmmm strange this is"

    No way could he just wander off on his own like that. People would ask! Think about it could Tony Blair just bugger off to the Wicans Town Meeting during PM question time?

    Come'on he HAS to be two people unless the Sith can teleport themselves.

    Just my 2p worth


  8. Wajas Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 15, 2001
    star 1
    I don't have a problem with that...for me, if they were clones/twins/best friends working together whatever, it would destroy the character of Palpatine. I'd have a lot less respect for him...I think he's such a good baddie because he's so damned cunning.

    And it wouldn't surprise me if his guards are kinda in on the whole thing...just stuff about them I've read would suggest to me that they're not 100% white as white...

    Can he do both at once? Yeah why not.
  9. billydeewilliams Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 1
    I refer you all to Mason's earlier post, which i think is worth reposting here:

    'Here's a thought worth mentioning(if it hasn't been already): When has Lucas tossed out a name to 'us', one that causes a particularly important event, and NOT come back and substantiated that name with a real person, or a reason for it even being mentioned(for that matter)? He hasn't.

    For that reason alone, one individual in EpIII will be shown as having at least two names (their duality), with one being Sifo-Dyas. ...and I think we all agree that if this happens, then it will likely be a force using individual.

    In the SW universe, I can't remember ONE instance where something was tossed out there, with major implications, just for the heck of it.'

    And you know what? He's right. I have been saying the same myself on my Duality thread.

    Check it out.
  10. Only_2 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 3
    Ok, Billy dee, good morning, here's an idea I thought of last night. What if Supreme Chancellor Palpatine is/was/will be a good guy all along?

    I know what the official site says, but that doesn't take into account that Sidious may be an evil clone of Palpatine, who killed Jedi Master Sifo-Dyas and then used his name with the Kaminoians to order the clone army. And then later in Episode III kills Palpatine and replaces him (because he's Palp's clone) and starts the Empire.

    Lucas has been waaay too up front about Palpatine becoming the Emperor. Maybe it's not so cut and dried. A Palpatine becomes the Emperor, not necessarily thee Palpatine.

    More Duality than you can shake a stick at.

    And definitely simple enough for Lucas to explain without confusing anyone, and just sneaky enough to fool most people who think they already know what happens.

    Palpatine is greedy, this we know. What we don't know is if he's a bad guy, or just a greedy politician. Maybe he got greedy, and decided to check out the Kaminoian's Cloning Facility, because if he built an Army he could push forth his own political agenda.

    When he got there, the Kaminoians are not as stupid as they pretend to be with obi-wan and take a dna sample and clone him. they do, but the cloning process has an unexpected effect on Palpatine's force sensitivity, and alters the midi-chlorians to be multiplied in the cloned palpatine, and he falls to the Dark side under Dooku's training.

    If there is a good and bad Palpatine, the duality is there, and they are seperate people, hence he can be in 2 places at once. and, it supports the bad canceling out the good force theory with Yoda hiding on Dagobah behind the Dark Side cave. The jedi didn't know about the evil palpatine clone, because force-wise they cancel each other out.
    Just a thought...
  11. Darth Sin Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 1999
    star 5
    To further give credence to the mystery man Sifo-Dyas, let's think of a similiar example from the OT that we could use to parallel our mystery Jedi.

    By the way, before preceding any further; how would our discussions on this subject have been had Lucas kept the name Sido-Dyas??

    I think the answer would have been, and was before that this was none other than Sidious(Palpatine). So when Lucas changed the name, he created a totally new person that actually was a Jedi Knight(Master).

    Now he is either someone truly significant to the story that we have yet to hear his story. Or he just happened to be an unfortunate Jedi Master that was killed for whatever reason, and his name was used to cover up the work of others doing evil.

    I think the major thing that stands out above all else in the mystery of Sifo-Dyas, is the *10* years ago that he was killed.

    What is all common so far from the Prequels and this 10 years?

    Sifo-Dyas was killed *10* years ago
    Qui-Gon was killed *10* years ago
    Darth Maul was killed *10* years ago
    The clones were ordered/commissioned *10* years ago
    Dooku left the Jedi order *10* years ago
    Palpatine became Chancellor *10* years ago
    The Chosen One, Anakin was found *10* years ago

    So if you count, there were *7* major events that occurred *10* years ago that possibly affect the Republic and what is to come.

    If Sifo-Dyas is truly someone important to the saga; then he came to be someone weaved into all these events.

    Now back to my original thought. Who is an example of someone whose name was brought into the OT, then later explained??

    Darth Sin! :cool:


  12. Boola Cronk Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 1999
    star 2
    BillyDee and Demo Felogates, Senator Thunder brings up a good point about this though and is one of the reasons why it so hard for me to decide one way or the other.

    The emperor we know in ROTJ is seen to be very advanced in age. If you use the the theory that Palpatine is a clone of Sidious the advanced age makes since. The only question that presents though is, Did the clone assume the role of Emperor? Then what happened to Sidious?? Did the clone Palpatine kill Sidious to become Emperor?? If not, where is Sidious?

    If you use the theory that Sidious disposes of the clone Palpatine and assumes the role of Emperor Palpatine, then why is Sidious so advanced in age in ROTJ? Could it be that Sidious was actually a clone of Palpatine? NO, that couldnt be because Sidious doesnt seem to be aging as fast as Palpatine and we know that clones have accelerated growth. Is it possible that the Clone Wars involved the destruction of the clone hatchery and Sidious couldnt obtain anymore clones for himself? I dont know, its such a HUGE mystery.

    "Im so confused!" (C3PO- Attack of the Clones)

    By the way LukeSleepwalker thats a good point, Attack of the Clones could mean the attack of Palpatine and Sidious - LOL!


  13. WelshBob Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2002
    If the reason for thinking Palpatine!=Sideous is to provide a reason why the Jedi can't sense the Chancellor using the force, then this appears to be ruled out in AOTC.
    Right at the start, Yoda gives the Chancellor a suspicious look. This is in direct response to Palps finishing off Padme's sentence.One which appeared to have no relevance to what he then said.(if you see what i mean.Most people never do)

    Cant remember the exact words, but it went something along the lines of
    Padme : If I may, Chancellor. I don't...
    Palps : Yes,it really is that serious M'lady.
    Presumably,she was about to say "I dont think its serious (the assasination attempt) enough to warrant my missing this important vote."
    When i first saw this, i thought the sound edit was wrong,because it didnt make sense.
    The only explanation I can think of, is that he "saw something before it happened"

    Didnt know about that Romulus/Remus thing, which is very interesting. Will do some research on that. Thanks
  14. MrPeebles Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    Welshbob stated: "Right at the start, Yoda gives the Chancellor a suspicious look"

    Could it be that something in the way the Chancellor acted reminded Yoda of the dead Sifo-Dyas? Perhaps Sifo-Dyas was an ancient Jedi by the time Yoda, et. al. got to know him, so it is only now that his clone, Palpatine, is beginning to age and resemble Sifo-Dyas/Sideous.

    By the way, do we know who Sifo-Dyas was the Paduan learner of, or who he trained? (Sorry, I've only seen EPII once.) Who trained Yoda?
  15. Wajas Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 15, 2001
    star 1
    With Romulus and Remus they weren't working together, each went off to build their own city...then one jumped over the other's little wall, and Romulus bashed his bro's head in with a shovel.
    Nice founding for a city, fratercide.
  16. Chiromike Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2002
    To play devil's advocate...
    Lucas always mentions themes in these movies and how they "rhyme" with the original trilogy. Here's a thought that has not been rhymed or duplicated in the Star Wars movies yet...twins. Luke and Leah are twins from the original trilogy without a recurring theme or rhyme seen in the new trilogy. Just giving another possibiity to the idea that Palpatine and Sidious are not the same person. Or, they could be the same person, genetically speaking.
  17. skywalkersound Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 16, 2001
    star 3
    You know, on the OS, within the DataBank that Palpy and Sidious are all inter-linked to each other? ;)

    Summary: The Jedi Knights, his biggest threat, were extinguished by his greatest dark side pupil: Anakin Skywalker, who had become Darth Vader.

    During the Galactic Civil War, Palpatine ruled with an iron fist. He disbanded the Imperial Senate, and passed control down to the regional governors and the military. During the Hoth campaign, Palpatine expressed to Vader his concerns over Luke Skywalker, a young Rebel powerful in the Force.

  18. JackGreen Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 1
    Skywalkersound:"You know, on the OS, within the DataBank that Palpy and Sidious are all inter-linked to each other?"

    I sure wish people would read the rest of the thread rather than just the last page before responding.
  19. skywalkersound Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 16, 2001
    star 3
    I've read the thread... at least 90% of it. I think that the Romulus theory is possible, but come on, Plapy is Sidious... And if I am wrong, well then, I'll be in for a treat in 3 years. :)
  20. donvegasjr Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    Just to clear something else up In the story of Romulus & Remus Romulus(hence Rome) builds his city on Palatine Hill not Palpatine Hill. Remus builds his city on Capitoline Hill and makes fun of Romulus's city walls. So Romulus kills him.

    I still think Palpatine=Emperor=Sidious. I do like the idea of twins though, has anybody thought that maybe Palpatine kills his twin brother Sidious in a bit of betrayal that Sidious never foresaw?

    Just throwing it out there.

  21. BenQ Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2001
    star 2
    "Who is an example of someone whose name was brought into the OT, then later explained??"


    How about the Emperor? (mentioned in ANH, cameo in ESB, big role in RotJ)

    Until special edition Jabba fit this bill also.

    In a round about sort of way Luke's father also is part of this group.
  22. JackGreen Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 1
    I was only referring to your mentioning of the starwars.com database.

    As for my opinion on whether or not Palpatine and Sidious are one person, I'm really trying not to have one. There's so much evidence for both sides, and I think Lucas has done an amazing job in constructing this mystery for people like us to agonize over until Episode III comes out. just look at this thread: pages and pages of debate and scrutiny over this issue thus far which will be directly translated into giddy anticipation of the next movie's release.
  23. skywalkersound Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 16, 2001
    star 3
    OK found one more thing that might help BillyD's and other's ideas, but it could go both ways...

    OS DataBank Darth Sidious

    Supreme Chancellor Valorum was voted out of office, to be replaced by the ambitious Senator Palpatine. And despite the death of his prized apprentice, none of the Jedi knew for sure of Sidious' existence, or of his true identity.

    The only clue that I find to be blantant is the fact that the Emporer in the OT is not called Sidiuos, would could hint to the fact that Palpy kills Sidious.

    Let's not forget the convo in ATOC between Anakin and Palpy, Anakin does say to Palpy, that "without your guidence... etc" (really bad paraphrasing)- My 2 cents.
  24. YodaSkywalker Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    Who trained Yoda?

    Yes, who trained him indeed? I guess he invented the Force. :cool:
  25. ladyvader1979 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    Damn, impressive, very impressive. I had never in my simple mind thought of that possibility. But it makes SO much sense. GL does still need to suprise us if he is into this recurring theme, which apparently he is.
    I agree also that the Council is hiding info about Sifo-Dyas, like OB1 lied to Luke about Vader killing Anakin (you learn your behaviors). So I think Sifo -Dyas is Sideous, turned bad, But , Palpatine is merely a puppet. They are from the same planet.
    But a question arises, my boyfreind has a toy that say "Emperor Palpatine". So theyre twins, clones or two look alikes...but how would that change the story? It's still about Anakin , well the Skywalkers.
    Another thing..I may be wrong, but in the novels after ROTJ didnt they make a clone of the Emperor, so he never really "died"?
    We still got 3 years....
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