Palpatine: Reverts to true form OR damaged because of Mace

Wow, you just said exactly what I said.

 

Except you think Palpatine was faking his lightning, like it was on setting 3 when it could have gone to setting 10. The "point" in question is AFTER the lightning stops.

Lucas says Palpatine was definitely trying to kill Mace, not toy with him.

Mace is a better swordsman that Palpatine. Palpatine is a better manipulator than Mace.

 

When you see what Sidious does in his duel to Yoda, it should occur to you immediately that Palpatine was faking the entire duel with Mace.

 

i dont understand what you mean by this, what does he do in that duel that suggest that palpatine was faking the mace duel?

 

i dont understand what you mean by this, what does he do in that duel that suggest that palpatine was faking the mace duel?

a. he's a much better sword fighter
b. he uses everything at his disposal

 

When you read the script and listen to Lucas speak, it should occur to you that his intention was that Mace defeated Palpatine in lightsaber combat and overpowered Sidious to the point of him having to play possum to get an assist from Anakin.

 

Yes, I'm aware he says that, ETC. Ok, so Palpatine was supposed to be overpowered. And I ask you again...why can't he be faking it? He's clearly faking at the end. So....when he's getting overpowered DURING THE DUEL, why would he not be faking then? It only makes sense that he his. Does he want Anakin to come in to see a dead Mace? Not in a million years.

 

We are NOT turning this thread into a Mace v. Palps debate. Only discuss Palpatine's appearance or it too will be locked. Thank you and have a nice day.

 

yes, let's lock everything

 

edit: delete sry mods, didnt see your post

 

We have given ample and fair warning. The Mace v. Sidious thread was not even supposed to be allowed to exist until after the DVD came out, but we allowed it early. The level of flaming and baiting in it became unacceptable. This thread is not a substitute for that one. Stay on the specific topic of this thread. If you have any more complaints or concerns, it needs to be taken to PM.

 

And yet the topic of this thread is the Mace vs. Sidious fight and how Palpatine's face was deformed, whether Mace did it or Palpatine let it happen.

So... anyone have any ideas how to discuss this without mentioning Mace vs. Sidious? If you have any ideas, please PM me.

 

I must say I don't approve the mod's decision to lock threads as soon as the debate gets a bit interesting.

Lock all "Palpatine-transformation-Yoda-Mace" related threads and this forum will be quiet like a tomb.

Last I checked, theads were locked only because of flaming, baiting, redundancy, ...


Just my opinion.

 

SW77-83, feel free to PM me if you like to discuss. I'm game. I'll also be setting up an alternative discussion forum just for these topics the mods seem to dislike.

I'm already PMing with HookLineAndSinker.

 

And yet the topic of this thread is the Mace vs. Sidious fight and how Palpatine's face was deformed, whether Mace did it or Palpatine let it happen.

So... anyone have any ideas how to discuss this without mentioning Mace vs. Sidious? If you have any ideas, please PM me.

exactly. mods have gone power crazy.

 

That's exactly why it was locked. And this thread isn't the place for such discussion. Like I said before, PM a mod if you have a complaint or concern, we all talk to each other, and we're all in agreement here.

 

No, the mods are just being sensible since people take the Mace vs. Sidious discussion so personally that it invariably devolves into baiting and flaming. Look what happened in the newest version of that thread.

 

Threads that consist of people yelling at each other because they disagree about something in Star Wars aren't needed. That is why it was locked.

 

And you guys were warned repeatedly.

 

HOW many times were you guys told to get back on topic?

 

Removing quote

 

Get it on track.

 

Ok, in attempt to get this thread back on topic I'm going to post some thoughts I've been having recently about Palpatine's change. I've been considering the possibility that using the dark side is sort of like exposure to radiation. Now we all know that exposure to radiation can cause physical changes, and that the magnitude of these changes depend on the amount of exposure. Small exposures tend to cause minor changes, and if the exposure is for a short amount of time the changes tend to fade away relatively quickly(for instance small exposures to uv radiation can cause tans which will go away if you are not continually being exposed to uv radiation). Continual exposure to small amounts, however, tends to make it so these changes not only persist, but accumulate. Eventually after long periods of time these changes become huge (cancer, skin damage, organ problems, etc.). In addition there are also threats from exposure to large amounts of radiation, which can cause major damage to the body within a very short time span (for extremely large doses it may only take minutes to cause serious damage or even death). Of course we have developed many ways to reduce our exposure to high energy radiation when we're in situations where we might be exposed to it (shielding, lead vests, sun screen, etc.).

Now I propose that use of the dark side produces similar effects. When the dark side use is relatively small the change is not too big and temporary. This would be the case for Anakin in ROTS. His use of the dark side was not very extensive, and so the change it caused was minor, the change in his eyes, and was temporary, fading quite quickly. Now based on what we see in TPM Maul didn't use huge amounts of the dark side (it seems to me that he really only used it to throw a couple things and augment his speed and agility, which doesn't seem to me to take as much power as force lightning would for instance), and so the change was again just the minor change to his eyes. However, Maul had use the dark side for a longer amount of time then Anakin, and was using it pretty regularly. So though each exposure, so to speak, wasn't large, over time they've accumulated so that the change in his eyes has become essentially permanent, and won't fade even when he's not actively using the dark side.

Now on to Palpatine, which is the actual topic. I think that Palpatine was using the force to create a protection against the damaging effects of the dark side, sort of like a force created lead vest or sun screen. As result he could use the dark side without altering him phsically (for the record I think Dooku's mastery of the force allowed him to use the same technique and that's why he never showed any changes). Now I think that when he was shooting the lightning at Mace he was forced to drop this protection for some reason, and so the dark side begins to change him. Because he was using such a large amount of dark side energies and having a large amount dark side energy reflected in to him, his overall "dose" of the dark side in this encouter was huge, and so just like exposure to high doses of radiation the exposure caused massive physical damage, hence the major change in his appearance. In addition, I think the damaging effects may have been exaggerated by the fact that Palpatine's body was not used to being exposed to the dark side without the protection in place. Now the only question that's still a little vague to me is why he had to drop the protective barrier. Maybe he couldn't use the force to maintain the barrier and shoot all that lightning at the same time, or maybe the barrier collapsed under the weight of so much dark side energy, or maybe he dropped it intentionally to knowing what would happen so that he could gain Anakin's sympathy (please don't flame me on that last one, I'm not trying to start more debates, merely trying to point out all the possibilities and maybe get people thinking). Regardless of why it dropped, it did and so we get wrinkly palpatine.

So based on this theory was it the lightning or was it Palpatin

 

Physically - his appearance was changed by on outside force.

Metaphysically - the confrontation and change does nothing more than bring to the physical surface and insight into Palpatine's dark and evil soul. The Physical becomes and allusion (yes, I spelled that right - no illusion) into Palpatine's very soul.

 

MithrandirVader: I like your explanation. It makes as much sense as mine Maybe even more. Use of the dark side causes physical change. The greater the use, the greater the change. Man, that's clever!
This would mean, though, that Palpatine's struggle is greater in this particular scene than in any other. How would you explain that? I mean, is it really that hard for him to keep Mace's lightsaber away? As soon as he stops shooting lightnings, Mace stops pushing forward. It's not like he was actually trying to kill Palpatine just yet. He was just defending himself.



Explanations - they make sense
/LM