Palpatine=Sidious ... its so obvious!

Oh yeah, thanks for the correction jasman.

 

Anyone else struck by the irony of LSD calling for a list of the facts, when practically everything we have is based on spy reports and conjecture. Ian McDiarmid playing both Palpatine and Sidious is not a fact. It is a spy report put forth by T'Bone. He may be sure of his source, but we have no reason to be.

The only facts we have are the action figure packages (I am assuming that someone didn't go to all the trouble of actually faking an action figure). We all admit that comparing action figures is ridiculous when they have a hard enough time resembling the character they are suppose to be. However, the outfits that each wear are generally well reproduced. They are practically the same, and they have the same broach. It could mean they are the same character, it could just be the particular outfit of office. Both are straight forward explanations.

The only real evidence worthy of compare is the pictures. First off I want to say that I think you are on crack if you think that young Palpatine looks anything like the Emperor. Yes, I know they are both Ian McDiarmid, but if I didn't know, I don't think I would have guessed it in a million years. The Emperor's face is hideously deformed and covered in latex, young Palpatin e is not. SO I submit that any claim made that Sidious looks like the Emperor does not necessarily imply that Sidious looks like Ian McDiarmid, ie Young Palpatine.

So lets compare the picts of Young Palpatine and Sidious. I bring your attention to the cleft in the chin. Both Young Palp and the Emperor have a very straight, verticle cleft. This is easily visible in all picture of the two characters.

Now look at Sidious' chin. The cleft is not straight. It starts verticle and then cuts horizontally. It basically resembles a upside down L.

In general terms they might look alike, but in the details I think that Sidious and Palp look like different people.




[This message has been edited by Chewchilla (edited 12-16-98).]

 

If someone doesnt like bickering they shouldnt try to start "bickering" as well (no flame intended). Another thing, I thought jasmen was a female name (no flame intended with this either, lol). As to the subject again the only true way we will know who's who in these films is either someone steals the scripts or we wait until we see for ourselves...

 

The jedinet.com also posted that Ian McDiarmid was playing both characters. This was months ago, while the were still filming the first time. This spy also said that he believed Lucas was doing this to throw people off the scent.....a red herring if you will.

 

While I'm intrigued by the fact that McDiarmid is portraying Sidious, I don't find that conclusive evidence. For heaven's sake, Jeremy Bulloch had two roles in TESB, and no one claimed that Boba Fett was really an Imperial officer in his spare time.

 

Good point, Gunga.

Geez, I thought everybody had read my "Gender Bender" thread by now. And it's jasMAN.

 

Didn't old whatshisface who played Wicket indicate that he was playing multiple roles in TPM too?

Perhaps he's playing one of the Space Sea-Monkeys!

 

Okay, let's list the "facts" instead of the facts.

 

i just want to know if sidious and palpatine are the same person is this going to ruin the whole movie for some of you.I mean some of you are acting like it is ,and also if they are the same why exactly is this lame.We know absolutely nothing on the circumstances and the hows,whys,wheres of it all once all is said and done it might actually be cool and might actually work within the flow and structure of the movies.

REmember that SW has never been overly conveluted or overly complicated,it has always been rather direct and to the point.That is the bueaty of it and the main reason of its success.It has always told a simple story of good v.s evil but with many layers.So i think we should just wait and see and if sid happens to be palp then im sure GL has a reason for making it as simple as that.

 

I don't think any information about Sidious is going to be given in this movie except that he exists. Remember, this movie is going to create a whole lot more questions then it is going to answer.....if it answers any.

 

Refer to prune face's and Lil Wookie's above responses to get my views in a nutshell. Thanks guys. You said it better than I could.

 

I'll tell you why it's lame. All this "secret identity" crap belongs in the comic books. Been there, done that. I think too highly of George Lucas to think that he would have to fall back on such a hokey trick. He's more imaginative than that.

 

jasman- "Graphic novel" is the "correct" term for comic books. I don't care, but some of those EU guys will get in a fit.

 

OK, let them have a fit.
Anybody want to respond to what I said?

GL said there would be plenty of surprises in TPM and the prequel trilogy, and I firmly believe that we will be surprised in totally unexpected ways. Before you say that sounds redundant, let me point out that all the "secret identity" theorists are obviously expecting a certain KIND of surprise. You think that the big "surprise" will be somebody's secret identity being revealed. GL's imagination is not that limited, even if yours is.



[This message has been edited by jasman (edited 12-16-98).]

 

no i dont think that the big surprises will be secret identities but i wouldnt rule it out. but what i was saying if this one plot point was as simple and "LAME" as it appears woud this somehow take away from the movie or the rest of the prequel trilogy,as this will not be the only thing that we will learn.I mean personally for me the emperor is not that interesting of a character,he is the basic evil badguy,so i really dont care about that .My main focus is on the story of ANAKIN as long as this is compelling every thing else is gravy.

Im sure that GL is going to throw some curveballs at us but we cant expect perfection at every point in the storytelling
as long as it is compelling and enjoyable im fine.

And by the way whats wrong with comic books!Thats what i do for a living and there nothing wrong with them,just good clean fun.Also im sure you know this but GL is a big comic book fan,so i wouldnt rule out them for inspiration(especially JACK KIRBY)

 

PF, I wasn't putting comics down, I was just saying that secret identities are a very common device used in comic books (all the super-heroes have one).

And it won't spoil anything for me if it turns out to be true. It's not that big of a thing to me, it's just an opinion. I'm not too emotionally invested in any particular theory. That way I don't set myself up for disappointments like many people do.

 

This thread is getting out of hand. I just wish someone that actually worked on the film would come on here and end this.

 

Ok.I wasnt getting to upset i just wanted it state my opinion.But i pretty much agree with you Jasman,i think that most of use shouldnt get attached to certain theories just for the same reason that you stated,as to not get dissapointed with what it eventually turns out to be.So lets all just sit back and let it unfold as it will,i garauntee that it will be all the more enjoyable that way.In the meantime i guess it is kinda fun speculating to a certain extent.

peace!

 

Hello? Is this thing ON? HELLO??

Chyren? Krista? Any comments on my observation on the physical difference in the chin cleft of Sidious vs. Young Palpatine/the Emperor?

Have you worked that into your Sidious=Palpatine duality theory yet?

 

I agree with your chin-cleft observaton. I went back and looked at all the comparative pictures that were posted by Chyren, and I still maintain that the two characters that look the LEAST alike are the younger and older Palpatine, which were definitely played by the same actor. This should point out how difficult it is to draw any conclusions whatsoever on the basis of these pictures. Makeup and latex can make anybody look like anybody else.

 

Hi all. I'm new here but here's my thought's on the Palpatine/Sideous relationship. If you look at the back of the action figure card of Darth Sideous and see one of the quotes, it says, "You have been well trained my young apprentice," speeking probably to Darth Maul (or maybe even Sen. Palpatine). Sideous' figure only interacts with three characters and Darth Maul is the only one that makes sense because it doesn't list Palpatine as an option. Darth Maul's figure only interacts with Darth Sideous, not Senator Palpatine. Ok, so this doesn't prove much, but what if Darth Sideous is the
person that tempts Palpatine to come to the Dark Side and what if the robes and the "bowtie" that Sideous wears is more a uniform of Evil Master Jedis'. Since the back of the action figure card say's Sideous is some sort of trade mogul, maybe the connect has to do with Palpatine's fund raising and maybe Sideous is his major backer. Anyay, upon the final corruption of Palpatine, he destroys Sideous and becomes what Sideous was, namely a really evil Lord of the Sith. Even though the same actor appears to play both characters, it doesn't mean that both characters are the same person. Don't know if any of this makes much sense, but it was just my thoughts.

 

I just read in a French magazine that George Lucas is working on the script for the new live action Scooby-Doo movie.

That right there is enough to convince me that Sideous and Palpatine are one and the same!! This is gonna be soooooo wizard!!!!!

 

Did anyone think that maybe those dark emperor robes signify status in the dark side of the force?

Maybe Palpatine dons those dark robes when he becomes a true master of the dark side of the force because perhaps those are the robes masters of the dark side are meant to wear?

Star Wars is filled with cycles. Lucas showed this when Luke discovered that Vader's hand was also artificial in ROTJ, hinting that Luke's fate could be the same as Anakin's if he did not realize he was going to the dark side.

Having Sideous appear in similiar robes as the future emperor would hint at a possible cycle with Senator Palpatine. Chances are Sideous will meet a fate similiar to the emperor's in ROTJ, and the cycle will begin again with Palpatine goes to the dark side and fills in the robes. If this is true, then it is STILL possible that Sideous and Palpatine are NOT one and the same.


However, since someone here like's to keep quoting Occam's Razor, here's an explanation that tends even more to the right answer:

In the original script for Ep.1, Lucas didn't not write a part for an actor for the character of Darth Sideous. This character would only be mentioned by other characters. However, after principal photography was concluded, Lucas realized this character needed to make an appearance, but no one had been cast for the part and no designs had been prepared. Out of convenience, he asks McDiarmid to "stand in" as Sideous (donning the dark robes so the audience doesn't recognize the actor from his other role as Palpatine).

Think I'm crazy? Well, as a hint, Jeremy Bulloch didn't reprise his role as Boba Fett in ROTJ:SE. Apparently, Lucas grabbed some guy from the Archives to put on the old Fett outfit and stand in at the last minute as Fett. This was done all out of convenience.
There it leaves open the possibility that my speculation COULD be true in its retrospective conserning the same kind of convenience in casting.

Just some thoughts. In other words, it is not obvious Sideous and Palpatine are the same character. It is possible though, that McDiarmid was also asked to play the role of Darth Sideous just for Ep.1, then another actor would take over Sideous in Ep.2. It is not unheard of that Lucas would find another actor to take over a role in the middle of a trilogy.

 

I think that all this is a family story again. GL likes that. Sidious is the father of Palpatine and he will not evade his destiny. The resemblance is a good reason to choose McDiarmid to play his own father (Sidious). I'll go farther that that... who knows the name of Anakins father? Maybe the good senator has abandoned her mother on Tatooine, not knowing about his child. Just like Vader...

 

As much as I detest the notion that everybody has to be related to everybody else, the idea of Sideous being Palpatine's father actually intrigues me. There's an angle I think no one has thought of before. Good call!

I also like the idea of the dark lords having the black robes as a sort of a "uniform". Nobody ever said all the Jedi were the same person because they wore the same outfit!