Palpatine: The Puppet Master or the Master of Plan B?

Having been around a while now, I've noticed that there are two prevailing interpretation of Palpatine and his various machinations. One interpretation is that the fall of the Republic was meticulously planned by Palpatine, right down to the conception of Anakin whilst another interpretation is that events always conspire against Palpatine but that he has the uncanny ability of taking advantage of the possibilities that arise with the new situation.

I find the idea that Palpatine is the Master of Plan B to make the character all the more devious, insidious(!) and formidable as an antagonist to our heroes. To think that Palpatine's plans were threatened several times, especially in the PT, makes all the twist, turns and eventual climax all the more thrilling, at least for this viewer

 

I think they're one in the same: the ability to masterplan something, and the ability to make adjustments when things go wrong (which they always do).

 

Palpatine definately adapted his plan as he went along; but the initial efforts he laid out for the groundwork of his takeover left him plenty of room for variables. By creating a situation that would gain him a sympathetic vote from supporters (under the influence of his Sith aura) he could use his new political power to create a war between two factions that he himself was the governing head of. By doing this, he allowed himself to take advantage of both sides and create an environment of fear. In such an environment, the weak often look to the strong for rescue. Knowing this; he made himself the only option for that protection. By having a clone army programmed to kill Jedi, he makes the Jedi look like part of the problem since the population do not know how or why the conflict began or why the Jedi are at odds with the Emperor. At the same time he makes the Jedi appear to be doing the very same thing he himself did but without suspicion onto himself; ie attempt to take over the senate and the basic freedoms of the Republic.

 

He is both. He is a puppet master who had several things planned out, especially in TPM. I don't think he planned for the discovery of Anakin. Just because Anakin may be some Super-sith, doesn't mean Palpatine knew where he was. But he is able to adapt and change his plans. I believe Maul was supposed to be THE apprentice. He was supposed to lead the assault on the Jedi Temple. He was supposed to be the one that would enforce Palpatine's rule accross the galaxy.

But some kinks were thrown in. Maul was killed, so Palpatine immediately found a new apprentice (Dooku) and began grooming for a new one (Anakin). AOTC also shows how he is able to be the "Master of Plan B". There is no way Palpatine orchestrated for Obi-Wan to find Kamino, but yet he worked around it and used it to his advantage. His original plan was to kill Padme, who was probably the biggest opponent of the Military Creation Act, and then when the act passes, he would have the Kaminoans contact the Republic to say the Clones are ready.

ROTS is the culmination of Palpatine's plans. Anakin turns, Palpatine declares himself Emperor, and the Jedi are destroyed. In ANH, Palpatine believes his rule to be secure, until the Death Star is destroyed. After learning of Luke Skywalker, he tries to have him killed. Later, he tries to convert him. Palpatine's goals are probably constant, but the way in which he achieves them are always changing.

So, throughout the Saga, Palpatine has shown he is a Puppet Master (TPM) and a Master of Plan B (ESB, ROTJ).

 

I have to agree with the sentiments already put forth, that he is both. He has his original plans, and then the Jedi mess those up slightly, so he adjusts them, and it ends up working even better. He not only copes with setbacks, he turns them into advantages. Sure, some of it could be bluster, like, how many of those things that he claims "he has forseen" did he actually foresee, and how much of it is just him taking credit for them after the fact? I am sure some of it is...but the fact that nobody can actually prove him wrong, only makes him look even smarter. He isn't just good at making and adapting plans to suit his needs, he is masterful at making you think his plans were even better than they actually were.

 

Actually, it's really R2-D2 who is the real Puppetmaster.

Without R2-D2, people would have died, and R2's plot to take over the republic would be gone forever.

 

He is the master of adaption and willing to adjust his plans in light of change, but never forgets his ultimate goals. In the same era the Jedi have become stagnant and resistant to change, which leads to their downfall by the Sith. They were prepared to fight the last war, not how to adapt to the changing times and be ready to fight the Sith in whatever form they may take. After being the Emperor for a few decades, it is Palpatine who then becomes stagnant and unwilling to change, trying to preserve his Empire against the Rebel Alliance. The rebels have adjusted to fight a different kind of war the Empire isn't used to or built for, and the Jedi have become adaptable and made necessary changes to battle this new breed of Sith. It's evolution. You either adapt to the change, or you die off. Just look at the different between Palpatine's temptations to Anakin in ROTS and Luke in ROTJ; he had gone from master manipulator skilled in adpting to changes and setbacks in his plan to defeat by the rebels without having a plan B and giving up on turning Luke after a couple of hours of telling him to get really angry and not having a plan B when that failed. From mastermind to overconfident and pathetic.

 

Thanks for the input everyone. Good stuff

You know, I think the only time Palpatine really played the puppet master and had people dancing after his flute, so to speak, was when he had Anakin go to Naboo with Padmé to protect her in AOTC. I'm pretty sure he was aware of Anakin's strong feelings for her and that he hoped that something would happen on Naboo between them (which it did).

I also agree with the sentiment that the loss of Maul was perhaps Sidious' greatest setback. I believe that Maul was intended to be the apprentice, the "Jedi-killer" and that it was only lucky for Palpatine that Anakin was discovered. That's why I also reject the theory that either Plagueis or Palpatine created Anakin through the Force because it makes everything so convuluted. The discovery of the Chosen One was a lucky break for the Sith.

 

Actually, those options are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

 

Good point!

 

I agree with this and most of the other statements made here.

 

True, but to get some kind of debate going, I pitched them against each other. The question should probably be: What is Palpatine more of? Puppet Master or Master of Plan B?

 

R2 is the real Pupptetmaster, I tell you...

 

I really think Palpatine is more the Plan B master than he is a puppetmaster. Yoda himself says that he can't see the future, and no matter how much Palpatine would like to believe otherwise, he can't either.

The thing I really find interesting about Palpatine is that all his supposed power over the dark side never does him any good, and in a way he somehow relies on the dark side that exists in others. During the Clone Wars, he relies on the Neimoidians being greedy as **** to the point where'd they risk outright treason against the Republic. He relies on Dooku's anger to keep him firmly entrenched in the dark side so that he can bend his talents for his own purposes. And probably most vividly, he relies on Anakin to run in and save him from what should have been the most important lightsaber swing in galactic history.

In fact, Palpatine relies so much on other people being evil that he doesn't understand how Luke can possibly resist the idea of becoming his apprentice. That's why he loses his marbles when Luke finally does throw down his lightsaber and let loose with the Force lightning....and doesn't notice that his apprentice (who's spent the last 20 years trying to kill him!) is now in a perfect striking position.

 

AOTC makes me think it's a Plan B type of situation. I just don't think everything in that film was planned.

 

I'd boil it down to this: For Plan B to work at all, Palpatine has to be a puppetmaster. If the Sith did in fact have a grand plan a thousand years back, there's obviously alot of things that probably changed and rendered elements of the plan worthless.

To me, it seems their plan is basically "hide until the Republic is so messed up we can tear it down from the inside out." There's absolutely no way Bane or whoever could've predicted things like Anakin showing up on the scene, Dooku turning evil, the Trade Federation, taxation of trade routes, etc etc etc..there's just too many variables.

 

Pragmatic adaptability is necessary for the effective execution of any plan. While prior planning allows for certain degrees of success--nothing can be completely mapped out. Chaos and uncertainy have to be factored in. There are inevitable road blocs and obstacles. Regardless of whether you have certain things engineered to happen, it is still important to manipulate events as they occur.

In Palpatine's master plan was no doubt provisions to elevate himself as Chancellor (Naboo invasion,) secure emergency powers (galactic crisis,) develop the clone armies, construct the Clone Wars, and undermine the credibility of the Jedi Order. Where he really improvised was the apprentice factor. He could have never anticipated the death of Maul, the emergence of Dooku, or the discovery of Skywalker. Yet he exploited each event to his advantage. The one thing he didn't factor in was the existence of the Skywalker children--which will lead to his demise.


-Seldon

 

That about sums it up.

 

This is what I believe as well. It was suggested or implied in LOE.

 

Palpatine was most certainly more puppetmaster I think. After all while mainly his Apprentices changed his plan largely was the same beggining to end, and he for sure had to know that his enemies would not act exactly as he had foreseen. As far as apprentices go Maul's death would have to have been the biggest setback; Dooku's death wasn't a setback at all though, he knew Dooku couldn't beat Anakin and planned to use Dooku's death to further his goal's with Anakin. Which is why he told Anakin to kill Dooku even though it would leave him without an apprentice for a while. That kind of bold move is either reckless or insidious and we all know the Dark Lord's name implies the latter.

 

I'd say he's both. He did an excellent job catapulting himself into power through his machinations(see: the blockade of Naboo) but at the same time when he machinations failed he always had a back up plan and a back up plan to that back up plan. He was a pragmatic conspirator who understood that in order to defeat the Jedi he was going to need contingency after contingency.

 

I think it's a bit of both.

 

This dude was the master of plans A, B, C and retrofit A, B and C. He didn't miss a trick and he lied and said he didn't if he did. Sidious' huge mistake was pulling Vader into his fold; not because of the betrayal (although granted that wasn't excactly wizard), but because Anakin was always headstrong and Sidious had to have realized from the start that Vader was still Anakin underneath. Obviously Vader got things done, but I can only imagine how many times Sidious sat asking himself "what the heck is he doing???????!!!!!". Vader was willful, stubborn, intelligent and arrogant as all get out and it is just very difficult to bend a person like that completely to your will. But the great thing about Sidious is that he was always ready and I imagine he got better at it as time went on. He just made provision for Vader moving in odd last minute directions. I felt that in ANH watching it the very first time which is odd as it was the first SW movie I ever saw, but I totally thought to myself - what a headstrong guy to be 2nd in command. By ROTJ, Vader was of course following his personal agenda, but he'd learned to placate Sidious as well - who was simultaneously going about his agenda. One can hardly miss Sidious calling Vader "friend".

I think with others working for him, it was much easier for Sidious because over all, most seemed fairly predictable. Sidious could easily figure out their true agendas and call in Vader to squelsh them if things were not going well. But he'd always have his secondary and tertiary plans in the wings in case the minions switched up or circumstances did not go as planned. Plus of course, for the most part, Sidious could see outcomes, if not every detail along the way, so even with Vader he could give freedom of decision without too much worry - and easily restrict the other minions to staying within a range of desired behavior toward the outcome.