Palpatine thinks he's a good guy

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith (Non-Spoilers)' started by Latorski, Jun 4, 2005.

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  1. Latorski Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 2002
    star 4
    This has been alluded to in other threads and may be redundant. I find it interesting that Palpatine genuinely believes he's doing the right thing. (I know very few bad people actually think they're bad people, but it always seemed ROTJ Palpatine knew exactly who he was and didn't care.) Good is, of course, "a point of view" and Palpatine seems to feel that the Senate and Jedi, while not necessarily bad, need to be removed for the greater good. The political maneuvering, false war and Jedi murders was a necessary means to remove an ineffective senate and destroy powerful special interests. As Anakin said in AOTC, someone wise will now make everyone agree and the galaxy "will have peace."

    Palpatine can even be a caring and compassionate person. (Unlike the Jedi, do the Sith embrace love?) He has a great time watching protege Anakin defeat Dooku. He's positively giddy knowing that his new apprentice will become the best thing ever and brags to Yoda. He gets to Mustafar when he senses his friend is in trouble. He walks down to Vader's charred body, immediately calls for medical attention and even puts his hand on his forehead. His "Lord Vader, can you hear me?" is one of the kindest things I've seen in Star Wars (its up there with Leia consoling Luke afer Ben's death).

    Did anyone else get this impression of Palpatine? He's an evil person who thinks he's doing the right thing. Anakin/Vader, on the other hand, knows he's doing the wrong thing. Who's more evil?
  2. stormcloud8 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2002
    star 4
    I think Palpatine was aware he was evil. I don't think he ever intended to be a good guy. He's definitely more evil than Anakin. He is 'pure' evil, while Anakin is 'confused' evil.

    That being said, I do think he cared about Anakin. Hitler had a girlfriend/wife and dogs, so even supremely evil people can love, in a fashion.
  3. Bacon164 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2005
    star 7
    I must disagree, stormcloud. I always thought that Palpatine thought he was doing the right thing by going into power to rid the galaxy of the politicians and Jedi while getting a bonus of being ruler of the galaxy as an Emperor/Sith. Or maybe it's the other way around...
  4. hippie1kenobi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2002
    star 2
    I don't believe Palpatine thinks he is doing the right thing any more than I beleive Anakin stops Mace from killing him because it is against the code. Palpatine "cares" about Anakin because he has invested years into grooming him to be the most powerful apprentice possible...not because he truly enjoys a beer with the boy at 5:00 on a Friday.

    These are selfish characters acting in their own best interests. In fact, admittedly so. When Ankin tells Palpatine that the Sith care only about themsleves, does the Sith Lord deny it. Hell no. He does his usual schtick of trying to convince Anakin that the Jedi are the bad guys.

    As stormcloud mentioned, even bad guys have friends or at least allies..doesn't mean they aren't still bad guys.
  5. kingthlayer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2003
    star 4
    Palpatine can even be a caring and compassionate person. (Unlike the Jedi, do the Sith embrace love?)

    > They definitely embrace hatred.

    He has a great time watching protege Anakin defeat Dooku.

    > Yes because he knows how far he can push Anakin, and he knows that at this point, not much is holding back Anakin from the dark side.

    He's positively giddy knowing that his new apprentice will become the best thing ever and brags to Yoda.

    > I call it taunting.


    He gets to Mustafar when he senses his friend is in trouble.

    > It's because he doesn't want his new apprentice to already get jacked up. Anakin was much more nimble as a human than as a machine.

    He walks down to Vader's charred body, immediately calls for medical attention and even puts his hand on his forehead.

    > See above. Just trying to save Anakin before he's too late.

    His "Lord Vader, can you hear me?" is one of the kindest things I've seen in Star Wars (its up there with Leia consoling Luke afer Ben's death).

    > I disagree, it is extremely sinister. He follows it up with a lie about Padme that cements Anakin into his service.

    Maybe he does think what he is doing is right, but I doubt it. I've never seen a sane person have so much fun killing off people and manipulating them the way Palpatine did. There was no good in Palpatine. He was definitely evil, if he really wanted to do the greater good he would've kept Plageuis alive and they could've tried to change things for the better. Instead he killed off his master and found it comically ironic later.

    Palpatine wanted power for himself, he didn't care anything about peace. It was just convenient for him that peace would be the result of his absolute power, because there would be none left to oppose him. Everyone was just a pawn to him, Anakin just happened to be a valuable one. Who else would wipe out the Jedi later on?
  6. Jedi Greg Maddux Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 1999
    star 6
    Palpatine is the epitome of evil. He bribes, blackmails, lies, cheats, steals, murders, and does every trick in the book to accomplish his goals. Palpatine is wicked, and he knows it. But he projects himself as a good guy, and blames the Jedi for all the problems going on in the galaxy. By having the Clonetroopers dispatch the Jedi, his greatest perceived threat is out of the way and he can commence building his new Empire.
  7. Kish Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2004
    star 2
    I have to disagree. Palpatine is an evil evil character, and he knows it.

    I didn't see his motivations as wanting to bring peace and order to the galaxy. But instead to kill all the Jedi, AND consolidate his power.

    He didn't kill the Jedi because he thought they were corrupt and getting in the way of the Republic. He killed them because of a long standing hatred thats been going on for over a milienia.
  8. Latorski Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 2002
    star 4
    They definitely embrace hatred.

    Obviously, but I think there's more to them than that. Hatred, fear and anger don't have to be the only emotions they embrace. Anakin's hatred helps him kill Dooku, but his love is what finally turns him to the dark side. Perhaps love is the reason that "there is still good in him" and no good in Palpatine.

    Yes because he knows how far he can push Anakin, and he knows that at this point, not much is holding back Anakin from the dark side.

    I agree to a point. If Dooku kills Anakin, Sidious still has his apprentice and the Jedi lose their golden boy (and Obi-Wan too). Palpatine doesn't necessarily gain anything if Anakin wins. He certainly thinks he can turn Anakin, but I also got the impression he's actively rooting for Anakin because he likes him.

    I call it taunting.

    It is taunting, but Palpatine also brags that Vader will be more powerful than he is. I think he's genuinely proud of his creation and, for some reason, arrogantly thinks Vader will always be loyal him.

    It's because he doesn't want his new apprentice to already get jacked up. Anakin was much more nimble as a human than as a machine.

    Once again, I think he likes the kid though I admit there are 2 ways to interpret this. To me, Palpatine seems a little more protective of Anakin. He sent Darth Maul up against 2 Jedi with no back-up.

    I disagree, it is extremely sinister. He follows it up with a lie about Padme that cements Anakin into his service.

    The lie about Padme was incredibly cruel. But, IMO, there was a trace of caring in the preceding line. I still think Palpatine is able to like his new apprentice but is also selfish, manipulative and evil. Those traits can go together.

    One (of many) things I love about ROTS is that Palpatine seems so ambiguous to me. I see more than 1 interpretation for a lot of his actions. He's certainly evil, but I guess I see his motivations as less absolute than in previous films.
  9. kingthlayer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2003
    star 4
    It makes him an even better character if he's creating doubts as to how evil he actually is. Such is the manipulative power of Palpatine.
  10. leelee Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 4, 2003
    star 3
    Well Lucas has compared Palpatine to the devil several times... so I'm pretty sure that Palpatine enjoys what he's doing and does it because he is evil. He knows he is evil and misery loves company.
  11. Latorski Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 2002
    star 4
    I haven't studied this stuff in a while, but IIRC even Satan doesn't think he's evil. Doesn't he think that God is the bad one and that he's fighting His oppressive rule?
  12. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    Latroski, from a theological standpoint, no. In the first place, Satan is not "fighting" God. Although he's in rebellion against God, the consistently presented Biblical image is that he, like everything else in the universe, is compelled to obey God.

    As to the actual question at hand, I don't think there's any doubt that Palpatine has some capacity to care for people/be nice/to love. However, that has nothing to do with whether he's a)truly evil or b)thinks of himself as such. Even the worst and most infamous tryants had people they cared for. But that doesn't change what they were, or what they did.

    So Palpatine seems to have some kind of care for his apprentices. So? That doesn't change the fact of what he did. And in light of the fact that the majority of the "justifications" he gives for his actions are things he knows to be outright lies, we should probably assume he knows he's evil.
  13. LordIsurus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 1999
    star 3
    Palpatine most certainly knows what he's doing. His doings are not to make things peaceful or right or good or bad. They're to make all other beings pay some price for something. For starters, he'd remove beings who aren't human from having any control in the Senate. Then, even strip the remaining humans of their control. He does hate the Jedi way but ultimately, he hates the whole galaxy.

    He is not one who's concerned about being good or bad. He doesn't care if he's considered good or bad. Especially by other peoples standards. A dark and selfish Jedi, he is.

    However, Dooku and Anakin do believe they're doing the right thing. They believe with greater power, they can better form the galaxy into a peaceful realm. To remove the faults of everyone else and come to a time when they wouldn't have to graciously point out why everyone else is to blame for the galaxy's, and their own, problems. Sidious uses this to his advatage, of course, always promising peace will come.

    Isurus the White
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