Palpatine was right the Jedi were afraid of what Anakin could become and thus held back his training

Palpatine tells Anakin that the jedi are frightened by his abilities, though this may seem like a typical Palpatine lie to manipulate Anakin, it is sadly very true. Anakin himself castigates Kenobi for holding him back, which again many people felt was Anakin being petulant and failing to accept his own short comings, but I disagree. I think once the films are seen in order it becomes apparent that the jedi did indeed hold Anakin back and he was justified in his resentment of this.

Whilst it is true that Anakin was progressing at a remarkable rate (faster than any jedi before him), his progress was incredibly sluggish when compared to his natural talent. Anakin should have been able to beat Dooku in AOTC and when he says that he is not the jedi that he should he is ROTS he is once again correct. I have come to this conclusion by comparing Anakin to not an average jedi with normal potential, but his equal in Luke. Within the space of three years Luke's has gained enough power to surpass any jedi that has ever lived before him apart from Yoda. Luke is strong enough to beat Darth Vader, who is 80% of the emperor's power and withstands force lightning far better than Mace Windu. How can two people with equal amounts of potential be trained by the same group yet one takes 13 years and the other 3? I believe that their are only two reasonable options the first that one student was clearly not working hard or the second the instructors deliberately held one back. The first is not really plausible considering Anakin's fervent desire to be the improve. So I think the most probably answer to this is that the jedi were holding Anakin back.


If you accet the first part of the arguement then we should examine the reasons why Anakin was held back. Again there are three possibilities 1. Luke's training was rushed due to the dire need, 2. There was less chance that Luke would turn in the eyes of the jedi 3. The jedi as Palpatine said feared the power of Anakin.

If you look at the first point it can be argued that the jedi needed Luke trained quickly since Yoda did not have much time left and the sith ruled the galaxy. However, the same could be said about Anakin's time. They knew that Anakin was the chosen one and the sith had revealed themselves for the first time in a 1000 years. Not only that, but their connection to force had diminished. Looking in hindsight Luke's situation may have seemed more desperate, but if you did not know what would happen in the future then you would think that the jedi considered this their most dire time for a 1000 years. As for, who was more likely to go the the darkside, I believe Yoda had serious misgivings about both Skywalkers and just as he did to Anakin flat out refused to train Luke. Yoda also notices the same qualities in Luke as in Anakin and as the saying goes 'once bitten twice shy.' SAO I don't believe that Yoda felt that Anakin was more susceptible to the darkside than Luke. Hence we come to the conlusion that the jedi really did fear Anakin was did not want him reaching his potential since he would be imppossible to control. Fear is of the darkside; the jedi's fear of Anakin led to him being and angry and resenting the council, which contributed to his desent to the darkside. Luckily by the time of Luke the jedi had realised, but their mistakes with Anakin were fatal to the order.

 

Is this fact often disputed?
Personally, I thought it was pretty obvious that Anakin and Sidious were completely right to think the Jedi were afraid, and "holding Anakin back". The problem is, Sidious made the Jedi's motivation to do this seem way more selfish than it really was.
We see that Anakin already thought they had selfish motivations (to an extent) before this, through his conversation with Padme after killing the Tuskens in Episode 2 - "Obi-Wan is jealous. He's holding me back!"
Yes, Obi-Wan and the Council were holding him back. But obvious to us; it wasn't out of the selfish motivation of jealousy, as Anakin believed. (Offtopic - But I wonder if Obi-Wan ever got jealous of Anakin's abilities/status during other times that we weren't shown?).
Anakin didn't see that they were protecting him as much as they were protecting themselves. Unfortunately, by being so cautious and keeping a tight leash on Anakin, they were just adding to the isolation Anakin felt in the order. It wasn't shown much, but I am almost certain that most Jedi would treat him different to the majority, as he started training so late, and had the whole "chosen one" label to deal with.

Wow, really? I think this was mostly people that just hated Anakin.
In the scene I mentioned, he was trying to comprehend how the Tusken slaughter happened, and thus was making excuses to an extent here. but this doesn't change the fact he was completely right.
I think a mistake Lucas made was having only Anakin and Palpatine state it, because some people probably got confused which facts were true. You know, like:
"Oh, that's just Anakin being angsty/ a whiny bitch" and
"Oh, that's just Sidious spreading his Sith lies"

All 3 of those are probably true, and they aren't mutually exclusive.

I don't think you needed to state a lot of what you said, just to prove this.

Your point about the Jedi's fear is interesting. In The Phantom Menace Yoda says to Anakin : "I sense great fear in you."
Then later, he says to Obi-Wan:
"The chosen one the boy may be. Nevertheless, grave danger I fear in his training."

It was a bit hypocritical to preach about fear then, wasn't it?

 

Great topic, I agree. Its funny how the councils negative outlook on Anakin is what did them in. Just more proof that Qui-Gon knew what he was talking about..."Your focus determines your reality". Like you said, the council was afraid of Anakin and his power, so they held him back because they were afriad that he was dangerous and could destroy them. They let their fear determine what they did based on what they saw in the future. Qui-Gon on the otherhand, only focused on the positive and what Anakin was at the present, a good, innocent kid that was the choosen one and coud bring balance back to the force.

Again, great thread and it gives me something new to focus on when I watch them again.

 

Too rigid, the Jedi Order had become. Let it change, Yoda did not. Too blind Yoda was to see that the way of the Jedi Order and code was not the only way. Failed the Jedi, Yoda did. Those other Jedi Knights and Masters Yoda trained in the past long gone, of a different time they were. Blind he was not to heed Qui-Gon's lessons on the Living Force, Yoda was.

Skywalker, the Chosen One, the one who was slated to bring balance to the Force, perimitted to retrieve his mother from Tatooine, he should have been. But the Order had grown too rigid, it did, because allowed it to change, Yoda did not.

Permitted his fall to the dark side of the Force, such things could have. Compassion is the answer to darkness, it is. Not codes. Not rigidness. If not enough insight it offers, then causes blindness, this attitude does.

Senator Amidala, the wife of the Chosen One, a good woman she was. Her life meant everything to young Skywalker, it did. Had there been no codes, just compassion and love, not worrying about being expelled from the Jedi Order, young Skywalker would not have feared. Thus turned to the dark side for an answer, Anakin would not have.

Failed the Jedi, Yoda did.

 

With as much power as Anakin had, of course the Jedi were tentative and down right scared about his training. The council stated this from his first visit to the temple. His force potential was off the charts, statistically moreso than Yoda. The only Jedi that was not afraid of Anakin was Qui-Gon, and even his spirit sensed Anakin's fear and rage as he cried out for Anakin to stop his slaughter of the Tuskens.

But I agree, neither Obi-Wan nor the rest of the Jedi held him back out of jealousy. It was due to his refusal to put down his other passions and in their eyes he could be easily distracted to the extent that lives could be lost. Anakin, though having great potential and matured a great deal during the Clone Wars, was still highly impressionable and felt he had something to prove, and so became a liability for the Jedi. Though Obi-Wan put his reservations aside, some such as Windu and Yoda distrusted him, not because they were jealous, or even disliked Anakin as a person, but because he was very powerful and dangerously distracted and impressionable. Sidious played upon Anakin's realization that he was being held back, but reinforced the jealousy and corruption motive.

Perhaps the PT Jedi were wrong about not allowing romantic love, but it was Anakin's lack of discipline, which the Jedi viewed as absolutely essential, which caused them to have reservations about promoting Anakin to the extent that they would be expected to trust him (as they would any Master) with their lives. So they were justified in holding him back, in hopes that he would become more self-disciplined, from that point of view.

(Kind of makes Luke look all the more like a superior Jedi because he mastered self discipline much faster, 10+ years faster, than his more powerful father. Sorry, no more OT talk here.)

 

I think they became more afraid after they knew Dooku turned - if a Jedi Master could turn to the Dark Side, why not the volatile, young, undisciplined Anakin Skywalker - the Chosen One?

I also think the Jedi were not afraid of Anakin, but afraid of what he represented: extreme danger. We never get to hear exactly what the Prophecy is, but I would bet it involves bad things happening.

At the same time, letting Anakin push ahead as much as he wanted would have been a recipe for disaster.

Talent without experience, intelligence without wisdom, confidence without patience.

 

was more then 3 yrs with luke the OT was 4-6 yrs in time

 

I have to think that the Jedi held Annakin back to some degree. He was clearly a loose cannon and they knew how much untapped power was waiting inside him; I think they felt they were holding him back for his own good, not out of any jealousy. Of course I think they were also lying to themselves and had no plan or ability to train him properly under normal Jedi practices. The prophecy is clearly left vague for a reason as were all premonitions of the future in SW - from Annakin's dreams to Sideous seeing that Luke would be his downfall. In each case, people were left to interpret these and failed, mostly to their own demise. Much of SW is about accepting one's destiny, but I also think there is an amusing sub-story of sorts about what happens when you attempt to cheat destiny - it always fails in the worst possible way...

 

I do personally belive the jedi council played a big part in Anakins turn to the dark side. However i dont belive this was intentional i think they held him back not because of jealousy but because of uncertainty of his future obviously not realising his fear of padme dieing this added to his frustrations making it easier for palpatine to seduce him. Like yoda says in episode one to anakin at the age of nine fear ultimately leads to hate and suffering hence the reason attachment is forbidden for a jedi.

 

Nobody held him back, he was being impatient, and Palpatine fed him the ego-boosting line he naturally wanted to hear.

 

palpatine didnt need to tell anakin he was the greatest jedi anakin already knew this palpatine preyed on him because he knew he was vulnrable because of the way he felt about his mother and padme. palpatine knew Anakin had all the feelings a jedi should hold back on.

 

Yes it is true that all those things are not mutually exclusive and it was probably just like you said a mixture of all of them. However, i still think the jedi should have allowed Anakin to train at a pace that was right for him. Perhaps if he was not being held back he would have realised that power is not the answer to everything and there are things that he couldn't 'fix anything'.