Lit Palpatine's Dark Empire.

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Matthew78, Jun 1, 2013.

  1. Matthew78 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2006
    star 2
    The original TPB of Dark Empire suggests that Palpatine was going to eventually rule the entire galaxy and spread his Dark Empire into other galaxies, replacing all leaders with Dark Side users, this sounds a lot like the Sith Empire from The Old Republic game.

    But what would the universe be like if Palpatine's Dark Empire had actually expanded beyond the Star Wars Galaxy and gone to other galaxies? Seems like he might have rivals, either dark side users from the galaxy in question that already ruled or someone more powerful than Jedi that served the Light Side, the Yuuzhan Vong or worse too, and other threats.

    I would have loved to see Palpatine and one of his Sith Apprentices successfully win and have a Dark Empire that did just what the old Dark Empire TPB said that he wanted to do, to rule many galaxies and the universe itself too, see if the power of the Dark Side, the Sith Lords and Palpatine would be enough to accomplish this task, he certantly seems ambitious enough, considering that even the Sith Emperor who ruled for over a thousand years never ruled his own galaxy at all, yet certantly probably had even bigger plans than Palpatine did too.
  2. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    fixed
    Last edited by darklordoftech, Jun 1, 2013
  3. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    It'd be kind of ludicrous for me but your post does demonstrate just how sadly successful the EU has been in minimising the sense of scale for a GALAXY!
  4. _Catherine_ Force Ghost

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    Jun 16, 2007
    star 4
    Didn't Palpatine want to literally become all of creation? Not sure plans can get any bigger than that.
  5. Matthew78 Jedi Grand Master

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    Dec 16, 2006
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    I am pretty sure that if anyone did the Sith Emperor probably did, he ruled for over a thousand years, thats a lot of time to think up some evil things, and the Rakata ruled for thousands of years but probably acted mainly on impulse, not planning as much, Palpatine had a lot of plans but was only able to get things done because he was trained in politics and able to influence things from within the government itself, those who plan for open war would get killed off, so his plans were acted upon once he manipulated things enough, everyone else had plans too, but not the means to carry them out.

    I would love to see his Dark Empire win the galactic civil war, to get total control and expand outwards, a Sith Outbound Flight Project with an invasion fleet, controlled by Palpatine and manned by his most loyal men, meant to expand his Dark Empire to new areas, what a feat, these are not Yuuzhan Vong ships limited by living biotech that cannot travel through Hyperspace, Star Wars ships can travel through Hyperspace to other Galaxies and probably take a few months or years to get there, so it is very possible, the Vong could learn from them.
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  6. darklordoftech Force Ghost

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    Sep 30, 2012
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    As a HUGE Palpatine fanboy, I can't help but agree that Palpatine invading other galaxies would be 200% awesome!
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  7. Matthew78 Jedi Grand Master

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    Dec 16, 2006
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    Whats funny is how the Yuuzhan Vong travel at Sublight speeds for tens of thousands of years to get to the Star Wars galaxy but the Star Wars ships with their hyperdrives would only need to set their cordinates the nearest galaxy of choice and jump into Hyperspace, they need no lock point, only a destination, just stop right outside of the galaxy in question and find a way inside, using the hyperdrive to circle the entire galaxy until you find the appropriate entry point, it should take a few months or years, perhaps even days to get there, at hyperspace speeds, the sublight speeds of the Yuuzhan Vong of course take thousands of years, but technology eliminates the long journey or cuts it down severely.

    Then you have a Universal Empire where Hyperspace routes are established between many galaxies, lots of travel opens up and the Dark Empire is expanded quickly, so Palpatine's goal is something that could happen, even the original Outbound Flight Project could have done this but not for conquest, just to explore and meet new races and expand and learn more about The Universe itself, which would benefit everyone, unless you meet some local species that is in control and wants to conquer you, then suddenly they have the new means to do so and invade your galaxy, but actions could be taken to prevent that, Jorus C'Baoth and his Jedi with him must have planned for that possibility too, Palpatine certanly would prepare for such a thing happening.
    Last edited by Matthew78, Jun 1, 2013
  8. VanishingReality Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2013
    star 3
    My theory is that Sidious does not really want to use power to rule, just to cause pure chaos and endless war. Life itself offends him. That’s part of the reason why he doesn’t really use his full power to crush the rebels, he just sits back and even helps them at times. My theory is that he even started the rebellion on purpose, for the sake of having a conflict. He doesn't really care about the empire at all.

    This is why I can’t see him uniting everyone under the Sith, after the rebellion is crushed. He might even join the rebels under a disguise and start from scratch.
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  9. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Sidious isn't just about ruling, he's about total domination and the willing corruption en masse by willing individuals. There's no noble end here, just a really messed up society for all eternity.
  10. Matthew78 Jedi Grand Master

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    Dec 16, 2006
    star 2
    Anyone that wants to rule the galaxy is messed up, but Palpatine and the Sith Lord's all worked very hard to conquer the galaxy so they would want to rule it and control everyone, even if they make them all wage war against themselves or do stupid things, Palpatine wants to be like Don Vito Corleone, the Big Shot with all of the strings controlling everyone else around him, he does not care what happens but he wants to rule and be in charge of it all, and if by some chance he defeated the Rebel Alliance and was able to expand throughout he galaxy itself he might want to expand his power and Dark Empire to other galaxies like the Dark Empire end notes say that he wants to do, basically ruling more people and having more minions and pawns to control, more fun and games and more people to invade and wage war against, the Sith love war and conquest and chaos, they love to do the conquering themselves too, Palpatine is like a dark side version of The Joker from The Dark Knight, only he is still somewhat sane and has some plans, but he is also an agent of chaos.

    So the whole Dark Empire expanding into other galaxies might be more fun to him than it would be stratigically speaking, he has more things to do and more stuff and people to work with, his own galaxy gets boring and this new galaxy is fun and refreshing, you have Sith Apprentices like Darth Vader or Luke before he turned on Palpatine in DE, these Sith and others like them would want power and seek more of it too, they dont just want to rule one area, they want to rule it all, once they get it all who knows what they will do with it?

    But there is the quote that comes from a book where Darth Plagueis tells Palpatine "Gain control of a group, then a species, then a planet, then a system, then a sector, then the galaxy itself." in regards to controlling things, so Palpatine and the Sith do want to rule everything, once they do however nobody knows what they will all do, perhaps even Vader would become a cackling idiot and manipulating everyone too, but i can easily see Palpatine expanding his Dark Empire into other galaxies.

    Basically expanding on what Darth Plagueis said but adding to it "Then another galaxy, then the universe and the cosmos itself" basically why limit yourself to one galaxy when you can have Everything in the Universe and Cosmos that there is? Why settle for second best? Palpatine and the Sith want it all, of course they would learn that accomplishing this Dark Empire would be a major pain in the ass and a lot of rival alien species, rival Dark Side Users and Light Side Users would show up out of nowhere and wreck havoc upon their plans, like the Yuuzhan Vong or worse than them, or The Borg from Star Trek or someone like them with the same goals that oppose the Dark Empire, or someone like the Aing Ti Monks but even more powerful and dangerous.

    So the Dark Empire could be possible, but it would be a major undertaking for the Sith Lords, Palpatine as crazy as he is might enjoy that challenge, it would be more fun than fighting the Rebel Alliance and Jedi Order for him, and there are opponents and alien species out there with advanced technology and weapons that would kick Darth Maul, Darth Tyranus and even Unsuited Darth Vader's asses easily too, perhaps the Dark Empire would try and fail miserably to rule the universe.
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  11. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    There's Knight Errant, we know what Sith do when they're on top!:)
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  12. DarthJenari Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2011
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    It's interesting to think on exactly what Palpatine would do next if his Dark Empire had actually succeeded. He's not the type of person to be satisfied with anything it seems, evidenced by the fact he wasn't even satisfied ruling the galaxy, but where could he possibly go from there? Conquering all the galaxies? Creating more galaxies? Becoming a God?
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  13. Nobody145 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2007
    star 4
    Probably reach ever higher levels of power and understanding. The clones solved the mortality problem somewhat, and he was constantly building up more knowledge, Jedi holocrons, old texts, etc. Eventually he probably would have expanded even to other galaxies, but the main galaxy is still huge, the Unknown Regions themselves are still quite mysterious. And the Star Wars galaxy has quite a few satellite galaxies too to expand into, such as the the one where the Nagai and Tof came from. Kamino is near one of the satellites too, the Atlas covered that subject in detail (beyond the Outer Rim, but not quite out of the galaxy itself).

    Although just to mention, extragalactic exploration isn't simply a matter of sending a ship towards the next brightest spot in the sky. The Unknown Regions and even the edges of the galaxy have lots of hyperspace disturbances that make faster than light travel... difficult. Even the Yuuzhan Vong had to enter through one specific spot I think (it was mentioned in Vector Prime?). The Outbound Flight hoped to get around this problem by having the Jedi on board use the Force to find openings to travel through. Exactly why the area outside the galaxy is so turbulent is a mystery, although its speculated its due to the Celestials (intentionally or as a side effect of something else). The Unknown Regions have messy hyperspace lanes too, and its possible the Celestials trapped certain things in the Unknown Regions to keep them away from the rest of the galaxy.

    The Sith Emperor was one of the most powerful Sith in history, but even he never reached full galactic domination, nor did most of the other Sith that tried over the centuries. Even during the Republic dark age, no one Sith really ruled, and the Republic still held the Core somewhat, until eventually things ended at Ruusan. Palpatine is the one that took over the Republic and ruled (even if only for 20 years or so), and he was consolidating a lot of Sith and Jedi knowledge under him as well as a few other Force sects. How far he would have gone if the Skywalkers hadn't stopped him, who knows.
    Last edited by Nobody145, Jun 1, 2013
  14. Sable_Hart Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2009
    star 4
    I've harped on this ad nauseam, but the Sith Emperor is simply a more publicized realization of the Palpatine revealed to us through the wonderful-but-obscure Dark Empire Sourcebooks.

    Here's to hoping the Corporate Mouse guillotines Creatively Bankrupt, The Game.
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  15. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    I still love @Ulicus idea of the Sith Emperor's Empire being a recreation of what he glimpsed in a vision, Palpatine's Empire at the height of its power. Unlike Palpatine, however, he didn't realize that an Empire led by hundreds, if not thousands of Sith Lords is a recipe for disaster, and he didn't understand the benefits of indoctrinating his apprentices willingly, rather than using mind control that has been shown to be insufficient on strong willed subjects (Revan, Kira, that one Jedi Master whose name I can't remember near the end of the Jedi Knight story).

    He can be a precursor to Palpatine, but he's only the mold that Palpatine perfected.
  16. Sable_Hart Force Ghost

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    Nov 28, 2009
    star 4
    Actually, funny enough, Vitiate's haxx-mind control has its basis in the audiobook of The Dark Empire and its sequel.

    As ever, Ulicus is a font of [great] revisionist history; hopefully Daniel Wallace or whomever is authoring the Essential Guide of Characters will toss that in as a Take That to the TOR writing staff; a gentle reminder that no one cares about their Sith Emperor.
  17. instantdeath Force Ghost

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    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    I haven't actually had a chance to listen to the DE audiodrama yet (though I will very soon), but isn't it essentially Palpatine attempting to coerce Luke to his side willingly... then when he proves stubborn, he essentially says "screw it" and mind controls him? I actually kind of like that, if so. Really highlights the reason why Palpatine didn't just mind rape all of his subjects, if it can be defeated like that.
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  18. Nobody145 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2007
    star 4
    Huh, that would be a nice way to retcon the rip-off Sith Empire of TOR. Bioware went more than a bit overboard with them, and its probably just my own paranoia, but they sure seem to favor the Sith in-game a lot. I really wish I could read the Dark Empire sourcebook, must track down a copy someday.
    Sable_Hart likes this.
  19. Sable_Hart Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2009
    star 4
    It was after Luke's failed assassination attempt in the clone lab. The Emperor beats him into submission and psychically subjugates him. Luke frees Kam Solusar from a similar spell by Palpatine in the audiobook of Dark Empire II.
  20. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    Just to add even more mysticism to it, I like the idea of the vision coming at the moment of the Sith Emperor's "ascension"; the moment he absorbed the power of all of those Sith Lords (or whatever he did, I prefer not to remember Revan). In the moment where his power is immeasurably magnified, he see's the person that he is desperately trying to make himself into. He see's his purpose, and then takes off in an attempt to create it. He was sketchy on some of the details.

    I'm reading it now, it's fantastic.

    And shh, don't tell anyone
    Last edited by instantdeath, Jun 1, 2013
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  21. Sable_Hart Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2009
    star 4
    [IMG]

    I would ask that whomever writes it also be exactingly petty: mention Vitiate's utter despair that the Sith Lord in his vision outclassed him in every possible way. Make his entire existence the futile exercise of an inferiority complex.
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  22. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    And now I'm picturing Vitiate kneeling before a Palpatine shrine every morning, asking for advice, in every field from the ways of the Force to fashion. He's not only a prototype to Palpatine, he's a prototype to GrandAdmiralJello ;)
    Last edited by instantdeath, Jun 1, 2013
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  23. Gorefiend Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2004
    star 5
    Hyperdrives apparently don't really work beyond the edge of the galaxy, which is why the Vong (which also use Hpyperspace for FTL but just call it Darkspace) took that long. Any ship sent out there from the GFFA should suffer the same problem.
  24. GrandAdmiralJello Community and Lit moderator person

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    Nov 28, 2000
    star 10
    I take advice from Palpatine on which facial moisturizers to use. Who'd know more?
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  25. cthugha Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2010
    star 3
    Maybe it's just me but I can't really see Palpatine's "Hey let's just build a BIGGER superweapon" plans ever succeeding in the long run. There are two-and-a-half ways in which I could see him actually conquering the whole galaxy and maybe others:

    1) gaining some new Force power that makes him totally invincible without needing to rely on superweapons (say, exact foresight or something)
    2) becoming a Fort, i.e. distributing his personality over lots of people, literally "becoming everyone" in the long run
    2.5) decentralizing control of the World Devastators, which arguably could result in lots of Black Goo and nothing really to rule over.

    But the way he was acting by Dark Empire, I don't buy him ever holding the whole galaxy for any longer period of time.
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