PT Palpatines' Kidnap

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Garrett Atkins, Feb 11, 2013.

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  1. Garrett Atkins Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2013
    star 4
    1. Why didn't Dooku spill the beans about Palpatine being Sidious when he was betrayed?
    2. Why didn't Grievous kill the Jedi and Palpatine when he doesn't know Palpatine's Sidious?
    3. Was Dooku getting killed part of the plan?
    4. If so, did Dooku have a say in the plan?
    5. What if Anakin didn't kill Dooku?
  2. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    1. May have thought there wouldn't be time to finish speaking.
    2. Had orders via Dooku (via Sids) not to kill Palpatine
    3. Yes, if Anakin beat Dooku, he was to become the replacement.
    4. Dooku only "knew" that if he lost to Anakin, he'd be taken prisoner and eventually pensioned off and if he won, he'd still be the apprentice
    5. See above
  3. Garrett Atkins Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2013
    star 4
    1. Dumb Reason, go for it anyway.
    2. Dooku is dead, so his orders are irrelevent
    3. Then don't fight! Kill Palpatine while he is sitting in a chair a foot from you!
    4. Wouldn't Dooku be suspicious about not being part of the plan
    5. Awkward revelation of Sidious
  4. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    1. Dumb - well, people do dumb things.
    2. Maybe Grievous is dumb, or too preoccupied with the Jedi, or a bunch of reasons.
    3. Then Palps was dumb - he wanted to observe everything.
    4. Dooku was part of "a" plan he just didn't know he was not part of "the" plan
    5. There was no revelation in that scene. Your answer does not make sense to me.

    You seem to be suggesting there's something wrong with the movie if all the characters do not have 20/20 hindsight, brilliant deductive capabilities, make human errors in judgment, misread a situation...you are not going to be happy with this or any other movie using that reasoning the characters should be perfect.

    You asked for reasons; I gave some. You don't have to like them, of course, but there are in-universe and human experience reasonings answers to your questions.
  5. Garrett Atkins Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2013
    star 4
    No, the characters don't need to be perfect, they need to have common sense.
  6. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    @Valairy Scot, I am so proud of you for taking the time to stand up to this [snip] man. I don't have the patience.
    Last edited by SithStarSlayer, Feb 11, 2013
  7. Garrett Atkins Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2013
    star 4
    I'm assuming by troll, you mean brilliant man who can see the flaws in these poorly written films?
  8. Seagoat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2013
    star 4
    Easy there, join date today!
  9. Zapdos Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2013
    star 5
    Those "flaws" you mention aren't plot flaws. They're human flaws; ways of thinking and acting.
    I've now decided that I will never see a movie based on your life. A perfect streak and reaction to every obstacle in your course would be boring in the lenght. There would be no story.
    Last edited by Zapdos, Feb 11, 2013
    Darth Chiznuk, Samnz and Valairy Scot like this.
  10. BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    I just checked this guy's posts, in his very first sentence in his very first post he invokes the name of Red Letter Media which automatically means he is one to be ignored.

    "I watched a RDM review and now I must go onto the Internet to use it's exact same points!"

    Yeah. Sure. Go you.
  11. Garrett Atkins Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2013
    star 4
  12. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    Garrett, this is how you're spending your retirement?
  13. Garrett Atkins Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2013
    star 4
    So Prequel fans, if these films are so great, give me a list of reasons why to love them. Perhaps I will change my mind.
  14. BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    Stalkers know all of your dark little secrets, my pretty.[face_love]
  15. Zapdos Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2013
    star 5
    Okay. [snip].
    I'm not wasting my time. Good night fellas
    Last edited by SithStarSlayer, Feb 11, 2013
  16. Garrett Atkins Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2013
    star 4
    Zapdos, you're leaving because you can't find anything good with these films. Maybe I was right after all.
  17. only one kenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2012
    star 3
    Has it come to this? Do we not even attempt to answer the points raised? The first question....come on, everybody must have asked themselves that. Shock, perhaps? Maybe he believed Anakin wouldn't? The second question @Valairy Scot answered perfectly well, but that leads to the next two questions. Now, the first question is just an almost 'gut' question. These two, though, are equally reasonable. Or, let me word it another way; how come Sidious is confident enough to put his life into the hands of his apprentice....we know that the Sith look to empower themselves, right? So, Dooku then, must understand that the war is not about the Republic vs Separatists and that the end-game (the destruction of the Jedi and the empowerment of the Sith) requires that Palpatine lives. Dooku would understand that he needs Palpatine alive, at least for now. As for why he fought Anakin..... because he believed that he would win. All those answers are legitimate responses.

    The last question is, I think, a really good question. I hadn't thought of it before and I've not seen it asked before. What would have occured if Anakin hadn't killed Dooku? Of course one can say, quite reasonably, that - as with most voctories, Palpatine wins because he knew his 'enemies'. he knew Dooku would be proud and over-confident (and, even if he wins it simply means that he has over-estimated Anakin and under-estimated Dooku - though how he explains his emergence from captivity in that case is a bit messy). And he knew that Anakin would happily follow such an order.

    See, no need to get personal and attack the poster, just tackle the questions.
  18. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Are we supposed to care whether you love them or not? I certainly don't.
    Darth Chiznuk, Samnz, ILNP and 3 others like this.
  19. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    @only one kenobi: are you saying my answers did not answer the questions? :confused:

    As for telling "you" or anybody why these movies are good, I strongly suspect you'll dismiss any answer you get because you disagree. I have my reasons; I don't need to outline them to you so you can tell me how wrong I am. You dislike them, that's fine with me.

    You ask a question and you don't like the answer, that's fine with me.

    But accept that if I or others give you an answer, there are answers out there.
    Darth Chiznuk and ILNP like this.
  20. Zapdos Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2013
    star 5
    Fine. I'll try to answer.
    I don't love this movies in spite of what your saying. I love them for stuff like this.
    It's a story about imperfection. About peoples mistakes and what they lead to. How Anakin turned out, how noone managed to stop it, how the domino effect of unfortunate happenings lead to what they did. I'm sure not everyone shares this opinion, but this is a small part of all the things I really appreciate about the PT. I love it all. Even the stuff you're questioning.
    Now, I am willing to continue this discussion if I can see it get somewhere. But I will not waste my time on this if all I get is a troll answer.
    Darth Chiznuk and Valairy Scot like this.
  21. only one kenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2012
    star 3

    Ermmm...is all of this directed at me? I hope not as, I really don't dislike the PT. I may question aspects of the films, but I certainly don't dislike them.

    As for the first question, I was referring more to the other posters, who seemed interested only in attacking the poster rather than taking part in a discussion. Of course you answered the questions, I was simply trying to flesh them out in terms of them movies (which is generally how I discuss the Star Wars movies). I don't go alot on EU, even the novels, in terms of discussing the films. I tend to think that the films, if they are to be seen as a saga, ought to be able to stand up on their own merit.
  22. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    @only one kenobi: only the first line was directed at you, as I didn't know if your comment about not answering the questions was directed at me! Sorry 'bout the confusion.

    As for the rest - ah, keeping my mouth shut for now, but know that so many of these same questions HAVE been asked over and over and over and some posters are tired of dealing with them - but I'll let them speak for themselves.

    No harm, no foul? [face_peace]
  23. only one kenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2012
    star 3
    [face_peace]

    Sorry for any confusion I may have caused. Just to emphasise, the last question isn't, I think, what if Anakin hadn't won, but what if he hadn't followed Palpatine's order to kill Dooku. I think that is an interesting scenario. Of course, I think Palpatine knew his man.
  24. Garrett Atkins Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2013
    star 4
    I think that people who like these films like basic "plot" and then a bunch of cartoony action with lightsabers. If you look deeper, however you'll find a lack of logic in these films. (Which the books, comics, and toys try to cover up best as possible.)
    Last edited by Garrett Atkins, Feb 11, 2013
  25. Seagoat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2013
    star 4
    The PT is better than the OT simply because it isn't so black and white.

    It portrays its themes in less obvious ways, it uses many more subtle undertones and subtexts.

    The OT was so (literally) black and white, those are the good guys, those are the bad guys. In the PT, everyone is, in a sense, evil.

    From a certain point of view.
    Last edited by Seagoat, Feb 11, 2013
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