Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Garrett Atkins, Feb 11, 2013.
Read the TOS and see you in 24. -Darth Boba
Thanks for the insult.
I'm 55 and yeah, I like the lightsaber fights. I like the PT better than the OT, although I truly really like them both. I like the politics in the PT and the machinations of evil.
But, you know, damn it, I'm not going to "defend" myself against your putdowns and insults towards PT fans by reciprocating in kind.
Don't feed the troll -Darth Boba
Nobody cares about the boring, sterile, emotionless cardboard cutouts in these films. Palpatine is the only one with any logic, since he is great at manipulating idiots such as Anakin, Dooku, Jedi Council, Senate, Nute Gunray and Separatists, Grievous, Asajj Ventress. Why are these films better than the originals then?
Well, perhaps you should stop trying to guess what people are like from whether or not they like/dislike the same things in the same way that you do. You should, I hope, be aware that liking the original films probably puts you in that brackett as far as all those non Star Wars geeks are concerned.
You're wrong! Flat out WRONG.
SOME (a lot) of folks care about "these films." Don't confuse your tastes with "everybody's" or assume yours is the only correct viewpoint. That is probably the only thing on these boards I'll flatly contradict a poster on because opinions are not wrong.
But your "fact" is flat out wrong.
I'm not guessing, no one is saying why they like the prequels better the originals in detail. I'm not attacking anyone personally, don't get me wrong.
See, no need to get personal and attack the poster, just tackle the questions.
I diddn't like the sudden "Dooku is as dumb as a sack of bricks" turn around myself,
so in all honesty cannot answer the OP questions to a satisfactory degree
as I too think it was dumb
1. I imagine that Dooku knew that it was pointless. Who is Anakin going to believe -- Dooku (who is the head of the Republic's enemies) or his dear friend Palpatine? Plus, Dooku must be well aware that Anakin wouldn't particularly be inclined to listen to him after he cut off his hand. There's also the issue that if Dooku said anything against Palpatine, then it might enrage Anakin even more. Anakin's momentarily struggling with the decision and Dooku might have not wanted to push him one way or the other.
2. Grievous may very well have intended to use them as hostages -- they are high profile targets (Obi-Wan calls Anakin a poster-boy). He might have wanted to put out a holo of their executions or he might even have wanted to interrogate them for information.
3. Palpatine's plan. Not Dooku's though. But it's clear that Palpatine arranges things in order to test Anakin -- "soon I will have a new apprentice, one far younger and more powerful"
4. I doubt Dooku knew. He was just another pawn and Palpatine would have fed him some half-truth to get his cooperation.
5. If Anakin didn't kill Dooku, Palpatine may very well have tried to kill him. And even if Anakin had wanted to take Dooku prisoner, it's not like he would have survived. Once Anakin cuts his hands off, there would have been no way for him to hang on in the elevator shaft.
2 things however
1) all that leads too much risk, even for Palpatine, so much could go wrong
2) AOTC Dooku was far too clever to fall for all that, he knew the rule of two,
the way ROTS handled Dooku was in my opinion a disgrace
Tyranus isn't Gunray
Why didn't Grievous keep the Jedi in the Ray Shield, or hide the lightsabers somewhere other than his cloak?
How would the droids have been able to bring the three to Grievous if they were still within the ray shield?
Did you see that when Grievous "opened up" he was wearing more than just Anakin and Obi-Wan's lightsabers? He wore them as trophies.
Keep them in the ray shields while the ship is blowing up in half!
I can imagine that the ray shields could not be held up for long. They would likely need to be incredibly powerful to resist a lightsaber and thus I can imagine that they might need to recharge quickly. Hence why Grievous went to get them.
Of course, he may have wanted to interrogate them and procure their weapons which would have been another reason to release them.
Why didn't Anakin and Obi-Wan use their lightsabers then?
Err...That was my point. The ray shields are designed to stop lightsabers -- hence why Anakin and Obi-Wan knew not to bother to draw them out and try to cut their way out. But at the same time, it must take an incredible amount of energy to power those shields and it's possible they'll need to recharge soon.
Anakin and Obi-Wan can't do anything but wait for the shields to give out at this point. Grievous knows he's caught them, though, and that's why he makes sure they are surrounded before the shields have a chance to give out.
At least, that's the way I look at it.
Then send eight droidekas to shoot at them while they are in the ray shield. In The Phantom Menace, Droidekas can go through ray shields, right?
But why kill them immediately?
Palpatine is the leader of the Republic and would likely make a wonderful hostage. And all three of them would be troves of tactical information for the war -- either through interrogation or torture. Or he could plan to televise their deaths given that they are prominent figures. Anakin was called a "poster boy" by Obi-Wan, for instance.
Really, there's dozens of reasons he wouldn't want them dead right that instant.
Killing Anakin (the Chosen One), would have been a huge blow to the Jedi Order and the Republic. Didn't Grievous know that Jedi could use the force to, you know, snatch their lightsabers while being held "hostage"? Why did they need Artoo's distraction anyway?
Of course killing Anakin would be a blow (same with Obi-Wan), but again, I'm pointing out that there's no reason to do so immediately, not when Grievous might want to get information out of them or televise their executions as a psychological attack. Plus, it's unlikely that Grievous knew about the prophecy in my opinion.
Grievous knew they could use the Force, but he didn't know about R2. He bound their hands and had guards watching them, but was unprepared when R2 created a disturbance. Like a lot of villains (and some heroes too), Grievous got overconfident. I imagine if they had tried to use the Force while Grievous was paying attention,there's a chance he would have simply snatched their sabers right out of the air.
Don't forget, Grievous is augmented and likely has the reflexes capable of that.
If I were Grievous, I would kill Obi-Wan and Anakin because they are a huge threat to, say, kill him while on a mission on Utapau. And kill Palpatine because he doesn't know Palpatine is Sidious. I know Grievous had orders not to, but at this point, it would seem like a safe bet to me.
Again, though, your choice isn't the only logical choice. If you have high-profile targets in your grasp, it isn't illogical to try to interrogate them or use them as leverage. You're not necessarily wrong, but yours is not the only possible course of action. It seems to me that Grievous had several plausible options.
It seems to me that Grievous isn't the smartest guy in the Galaxy.
I don't see Grievous as a well-conceived character, and as a result Jedi hardly ever seem to use the Force against him and thus don't seem to fight him effectively. Darth Maul can pull a spaceship down off a ridge while running away, I'd think an experienced enough Jedi being charged by Grievous could just grab him in a Force hold while another Jedi took advantage and went in for the attack. On the other hand, with few exceptions such as Nahdar Vebb's killing, Grievous never seems to use his additional arms effectively; of what use are multiple sabers if they're all going to the same place, as opposed to striking at an opponent's lower body while simultaneously attacking from above?
It is pretty ridiculous he just keeps them in his cloak as an easy force pull, it's happened in the cartoon in his first appearance, [though on body not cloak same issue] ROTS and probably other EU. I suppose Jedi in general don't use the darker powers, and a force push or similar does nothing, he can use his lightsabres to slow him down as shown in TCW, or is fine as shown in ROTS. As soon as he meets a more, open force user, Windu, he just crushes him right away. Grievous vs Dooku or Sidious would be very interesting, just to see how a force user could destroy him in a fair fight.
Dooku didn't beg for mercy/spill the beans because he's an honourable guy, he was bested and tricked and accepted his fate.
Grievous didn't have the droids kill Anakin/Obi Wan I assume because he wanted to gloat and kill themselves or hold them hostage, the two heroes of the Republic and the Chancellor would shatter morale if they were killed, or maybe he was going to wait for Dooku [did he know he was dead?] or Sidious to give him orders once he had left Coruscant.
If Anakin hadn't killed Dooku Palpatine would have to ensure he died on the way back. Dooku would have stayed loyal if Palpatine hadn't ordered his death but now he's a rogue cannon.