Lit Palpatine's view of Vader in the new canon

In the old EU, it sometimes contradicts each other about Palpatine's view on Vader, in some novels he wanted Vader to become more powerful than himself but in some others he just wanted Vader to stay as his right hand and search for a new apprentice.

How about in the new canon? Does he want to continue Rule of Two?

 

It depends when in the story we are talking.

Tarkin and Lords of the Sith Palpatine has a very positive view on Vader. Vader is basically his prize apprentice.

After ANH Vader falls from grace but he earns the respect of his master again when he deals with the Cylo threat.

He falls from grace again when he becomes conflicted and weakened in the dark side after TESB.

 

In the new Vader comics Palpatine demotes Vader and places him under command of "Grand" General Tagge


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Wonder if in canon Palpatine is angered or relieved when he first discovered Vader bsedie that molten bank

 

I think under the new canon, Vader was given his place. As the most prized apprentice to Palps and second only to him. He is feared and unstoppable. In legends, I think he lost some of that. He might be a failure because of what happened in Mustafar, but, still, no one could match and should match Vader's potential. It makes it fitting that at the end, only Vader could pick the Emperor and throw him down the shaft. Of course Luke had a big part with his compassion.

 

I think he would be angry, unless he is more obsessed about self preservation lol. I mean he got a really useful puppet instead of someone that could actually kill him. though ironically he did kill him lol

 

OK, I'm curious about this - where does this charge come from?

Purge? He killed all the Jedi. Ghost Prison? Again, kicked arse. Coruscant Nights? Even when not on the page, Vader's looming menace dictates their every move.

Dark Lord? Perhaps but that did have a Vader getting used to what he had become. Lost Command's supposedly wheepy Vader? No one got time for that!

Go all the way back to the Goodwin-Williamson Classic Star Wars and you have Vader manipulating Admiral Griff into a suicide run, while rampaging with the Executor.

I'd see the more likely source being that Legends had people slagging Vader off, but it's notable that save for a couple of infamous cases, it happened only after he was dead!

 

My view of Palpatine and Vader goes like this:

Palpatine in the Nu Canon really is a believer in the Sith Ideal and actually is cool with the idea that he's possibly going to be murdered some day by Darth Vader/Anakin. He's an actual believer in the Social Darwinist/Dark Side religion taught by Darth Bane and I wouldn't be surprised if there's a bit of the Rule of Two's founder inside him. This is a contrast to purely selfish Palpatine of the previous games. Even after Mustafar, Palpatine believes Darth Vader can overcome his injuries and return to his previous state as the Dark Chosen One.

But Vader...doesn't.

Vader spends the next twenty years kriffing and moaning about how much his life sucks as well as following Palpatine's orders to the letter. By the time of A New Hope, Vader is basically less Palpatine's apprentice and more the original Emperor's Hand. He's beaten down and broken. I really think Palpatine made Tagge into the Grand General of the Empire as well as made the cyborgs so Vader would be FURIOUS and decide to get back on track.

I find that infinitely more interesting than Palpatine is just being a banthabag.

On Vader's end, I don't think Vader ever gets the Rule of Two and if he did, he thinks it's the stupidest thing he's ever heard in his entire life. Which is funny because Vader has a history of murdering his masters. Darth Vader may kill Obi-Wan Kenobi and Palpatine but it's personal there. Not ideological. If he ever became Master of the Sith, he'd pass down his mantle peacefully to his son. Maybe laying down so Luke executes him once he feels he can't go on.

Vader hates Palpatine but he's broken after Mustafar and it takes a combination of personal humiliation and the discovery his son is alive to motivate him to really get back on the Sith murder train.

If you want to get Freudian, I think Vader doesn't believe in the Rule of Two because he was raised a slave and understands the kind of "the strong survive, the weak perish" dogma is a luxury of those who grew up with power. Vader grew up knowing obedience was the way of survival and even the strong could fall low at the hands of others or freak accident.

 

In the new canon? I sure didn't get that impression in Lords of the Sith, Tarkin or the comics...

 

As I've said before, I'm not sure any Sith really believes in the Order as a greater whole as opposed to their own personal interest, and particularly not in canon. (You can point to a few cases of this in Legends - but they all basically failed anyway). Hence the creation of the Rule of Two as a means to channel that inherent selfishness towards a long-term goal. So I don't think Palpatine views Vader particularly differently from normal. He lies to him, manipulates him, sees if others can possibly replace him - but that's frankly kind of normal for any Sith master-apprentice relationship. The idea occasionally toyed with that he saw Vader as a failure who could never achieve his full potential after Mustafar seems to have been moved away from.

 

I certainly did, so YMMV.

 

The RoT was just an emergency measure when the Sith were powerless and defeated. By the time of the Empire, the two Sith have all the power in the galaxy and just have a little personal Cold War going with MAD-level maneuvering. Publically, to each other, they've reached a point where they're discussing recruiting Luke to become "one of us". Secretly they're plotting against one another.

 

I don't remember a scene in which he was openly moaning about anything. On the other hand he seems to view his current position as being destined and him fulfilling the will of the force. I can't really say I get where you're coming from, to be honest.

 

You seem to be focusing on the word choice. Vader makes it clear he views the cybernetic horror that is his life is an "abomination." He also is focused on spreading the Empire and putting down its enemies versus taking out his master until 20 A.E.

 

At the end of the first Vader arc, he ends it by simply stating "I will have it all", and if you take into account ESB's speech he's already telling Luke that they can destroy the Emperor so basically I see it Vader is happy (well, as happy as Vader can be) working as Palpatine's second, and Palpy views him as such even though he gets a few "replacements" that's because he wants Vader to emerge either stronger or be dismissed (losing the Death Star was particularly miffed Palpatine). Once Vader finds out he has a son, all bets are off.

 

From what I remember from Lords of the Sith Vader is very much satisfied with his choices, and he even accepts his armor as a tool to get stronger in the dark side. The Emperor seems very content with him too in this book, Tarkin´s and the end of the Darth Vader comic.

All in all, their relationship seems now like I saw it originally in the movies: The Emperor has most confidence in Vader until Luke comes along and destroys the Death Star. This not only shows him that Vader can fail (perhaps for the first time since mustafar), but it put treacherous thoughts in Vader´s mind, and also slowly begins to separate him from his former pure dark side state, since hate isn´t now the center emotion of his life (this we only see in ROTJ).

In fact, I get the feeling that the whole point of Vader overriding Cylo´s kill switch in the Vader comic is to prove him above the sentiments that led to the downfall of Anakin Skywalker at this point, even if we know that those feelings were going to be reawakened by Luke´s presence...

 

I think basically, Palpatine is annoyed that Vader was severely wounded on Mustafar. He placed him in the suit to limit his movement, and tests him time and time again. If Vader succeeds, he proves his worth. If he fails, he's not up to scratch and a replacement can be found. It's a sick game between the two. Vader more or less proves his worth to Palpatine over the years, but the arrival of Luke escalates things further. Vader knows Palpatine lied about Padme and other things. So Luke gives both Vader and Palpatine added purpose. Palpatine used Vader for his own purposes. He doesn't have an emotional connection with him.

 

I had to LOL when you said he probably thought the Rule of 2 was stupid.

I agree though. In Canon we see a Vader who HATES Palpatine! I believe, and if I'm wrong correct me, in LoTS, that he has chances to kill Palpatine and considers it. We have a Vader who hates his master & who can only be taken from his thrall through Luke.

 

I feel like Vader wants the Sith to rule openly. He hates that Palpatine rules through deception and deliberately engineered a civil war.

 

I imagine it's not ideological. Vader hates Palpatine for personally ruining his life.

 

I got that impression too when he subjected Vader to being subordinate to Tagge or have....well whoever follow him.

 

The Sith are all about having to prove yourself over and over again.

 

Darth_Pevra I don't think he is shown that way in Legends or the new canon. But he is in ROTS

 

In issue 20 of the Vader comic Palpatine implies he is going to end the rule of two.