Palps and Anakin referring to their faith as 'Darkside'

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by SithOWNtheJedi, Nov 4, 2005.

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  1. SithOWNtheJedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2005
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    What bothers me the most is why Anakin and Palpatine refer to their faith in the force as the 'darkside'? They didnt believe what they were doing was evil and evil people wont admit to what they do as evil because they believe they are right..it like Hitler calling himself evil...
    cant they just refer to their dark faith as 'the force'?To me that would make much more sense
  2. Padme-Wan_SkyWindu Jedi Knight

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    Jun 1, 2002
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    I don't think they consider dark to be the equivalent of evil. Palpatine doesn't seem to think he is evil - he says "Good is a point of view, Anakin." I think that to them, it's just highlighting the contrast between their view ("dark") and that of the Jedi ("light").
  3. SithOWNtheJedi Jedi Master

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    Jul 29, 2005
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    But 'Dark' is almost always associated with something bad
  4. Padme-Wan_SkyWindu Jedi Knight

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    Jun 1, 2002
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    Very true, but again, it's all about one's point of view - quite an interesting theme in Star Wars. Dark is almost always associated with something bad (as you said), which is probably why Lucas called it the "Dark Side" in the original film. He knew the audiences would associate it with the bad guys, because of their point of view. But there can be more than one.

    "From my point of view, the Jedi are evil!" - Vader

    "So what I told you was true, from a certain point of view." - Obi-Wan on his story about Vader killing Anakin

    Obviously, Vader's opinion of the Jedi does not agree with that of the audience (presumably), but it's what he believes (or has been led to believe). Most people would probably not automatically make the connection that Obi-Wan made with the theme of Vader killing Anakin based on his word choice - they would infer the two entities were separate people, as Luke did. Why couldn't the same basic principle hold for Palpatine and Vader's view of the Force? They could see "dark" as being related to something different from what you or I would associate it with.

    EDIT: Edited for grammar.
  5. JediLaura01 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 20, 2001
    star 3
    I think Palpatine also feels that the end justifies the means. If bringing "peace and order" to the galexy means doing evil acts or using the "darkside" than that's what he's going to do. As long as the result os okay in his mind, than he doesn't see it as evil.
  6. LordVader66 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 30, 2005
    star 4
    this is an interesting point and at first i had a problem with them calling it the darkside, but i have come to believe it means the darker side of human emotion, looking at it like that all palp and vader are saying is that their strength of their force power come from normal human emotion, well the jedi dont use their emotion for their power
  7. SEPARATESICKLEROOK2 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 1, 2003
    star 2
    I think that it is explained best when Palpatine tells Anakin "If one is to understand the Great Mystery, one has to look at a much larger view of the Force, not just the narrow, dogmatic view of the Jedi." I see the force as a whole (yin-yang), and we have the Jedi that gravitate to one side heavily (thus creating the need for "balance") and those who gravitate to the other, more negative side. Each affords great powers (the darkside is stronger obviously, it only takes two to mire and obscure the light, but each have their drawbacks too. I think that anyone who uses whichever side is not cognisant of whether they are doing evil or not, but sees their actions according to their point of view. And the Jedi constantly refer to the lightside, so the Sith see themselves reveling in what the Jedi fear, they are unbound. And in the end it is all "The Force" to the Sith as well as the Jedi, they just follow two distinctly different philosophies ("The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.").
  8. That_Random_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2005
    star 3
    Well, that's what everybody else calls it...
  9. Vaeron Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 14, 2005
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    I think it's called the dark side because the Jedi are blind to it, and its practitioners hide in the shadows. Palpatine won because he was sneaky and hid his emotions and his intentions. Maul, Dooku, Sidious, the Jedi weren't able to sense much about any of them.

    I think the dark side is more a value judgement than it is an actual seperate aspect of the force. Probably more impulsive, arrogant, tempermental, or even weak-willed people are drawn to the dark side because it's easier and they can use their emotions to augment their power instead of fighting to keep their emotions in check (which I'm sure requires some effort to successfully pull off all the time). Selfishness and unrestricted power are usually not a good combination - which is why the Jedi order clamped down on it.

    So yeah, it would have that "evil" connotation, but that's really a point of view. What I mean is, Anakin could still be considered having given into the "dark side" long before he killed children and seperatists, even though he was reacting more than acting when he cut Mace. Because he was looking out for himself, not for the what the Jedi wanted - and they can't stand that.
  10. Curufinwe Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 14, 2002
    star 2
    The Dark Side of the Force could refer to the secret nature of the Force, the arcane powers that Plagueis discovered that are hidden from the Jedi. At least that could be the Sith's definition of Dark, meaning "hidden," "obscure."
  11. vote_for_palpatine Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2005
    star 1
    It could be Sith irreverence; the Jedi call it Dark Side perjoratively, so the Sith call it Dark Side with pride.

    "There is no Dark Side" - Asajj Ventress

    I like that quote because there is one Dark Side user who sees it as the center.
  12. voodoopuuduu Classic Trilogy Trivia Host

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    Mar 22, 2004
    star 5
    But 'Dark' is almost always associated with something bad

    Not really. How about Dark Matter ? It just is, but its not bad at all. And Dark Chocolate, much better than Light Chocolate IMO. :D

    At least that could be the Sith's definition of Dark, meaning "hidden," "obscure."

    Yep. Otherwise why not say the bad side / good side of the force. Or evil side / virtuous side.
  13. SAND-CRAWLER Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2003
    star 4

    ANAKIN: You know the dark side?!?

    PALPATINE: Anakin, if one is to understand the great mystery, one must study all its aspects, not just the dogmatic, narrow view of the Jedi. If you wish to become a complete and wise leader, you must embrace a larger view of the Force.


    From the Sith point of view, they believe that they are embracing the "complete" view of the force and not just the one sided opinion. They don't believe that the dark side is evil at all, they actually believe that the Jedi are evil for not embracing the larger more wholistic view of the force. Unfortunately, the darkside corrupts and decieves them and they have no idea that what they're following is actually evil.
  14. SEPARATESICKLEROOK2 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 1, 2003
    star 2
    Would it not seem that the optimal Force practitioner could use both the light and dark sides simultaneously, without gravitating to one specific side or the other? I remember reading about Ki Adi Mundi's binary brain affording him ability to ponder the dark side w/o straying, but a full combination would be balanced.
  15. harjap Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 5, 2000
    star 4
    The moon has a dark side, it just means we know little about it...
    The force has a dark side that is not widely talked about.
    Yoda and co know about the dark side of the force
    Palpatine knows about it and uses it.
  16. TheCRZA Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2005
    star 4
    Because it would be confusing if the Jedi called it the "darkside"
    yet the Sith called it "Sarah".
  17. LoneFoxAndCub Jedi Knight

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    Jul 30, 2003
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    I don't know, I know some pretty evil Sarah's...
  18. voodoopuuduu Classic Trilogy Trivia Host

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    Mar 22, 2004
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    Once you start down the path to the Sarah, forever will it dominate your destiny. :D
  19. Darth Rayder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 1999
    star 4
    In the original drafts, the Dark Side was "the Bogan" and the Light Side was "the Ashla"


    Not quite as bad as "Sarah", but still....
  20. dorkstar Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 1, 2002
    star 1
    Remember, one is not BORN into the dark side. Virtually anyone born with force-sensitivity would be immediately identified by the Jedi, who call it "the Dark Side."

    When converting Anakin, what else is Palps supposed to call it? "The side that you call the dark side, but really isn't dark from my point of view"? Or is he simply going to identify it by what Anakin has been calling it his whole life... since he was identified by the Jedi, who call it "Dark."

    Got it?
  21. All_Powerful_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2003
    star 4
    "Darkside" in Star Wars is basically a name for "more powerful". The Jedi teach restraint in their use of the Force, while the Sith encourage the opposite. It's darker in the sense that it's more destructive, but that doesn't necessarily mean "evil" in the minds of the Sith. Remember, these people who think they're doing "good" eventually go on to develop a space station that can destroy a planet. They think that sort of thing is good!
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