Palps should inflict Anakin's injuries

I think the lava pit stuff has potential, but it also has potential...for DOOM. (mwahahahahahah)

I guess it's just me, but I really don't want TOO many parallels between the PT and the OT. We already have the parallel stories of Luke and Anakin, they don't have to be EXACTLY the same. Obviously they aren't but...

I'm just worried that the temptation/fall to the DS scene will be too similar to ROTJ. Please GL, don't hit us over the head with it. We GET it.

So unfortunately I would vote down Anakin jumping into the lava pit, although it is a clever parallel.

Anakin does not seem the type to despair to me ... I see his journey to the DS coming from anger, fear, jealousy, arrogance, etc.

 

We GET it

lol. true, but its still kinda cool sometimes. I guess that scene would seem pretty cheesy playing out, but I really like the idea of someone jumping into lava. It'd just be shocking to see.

Anakin does not seem the type to despair to me ... I see his journey to the DS coming from anger, fear, jealousy, arrogance, etc

interesting. good point. food for thought.

 

When I saw an earlier post on here, someone had a very similar to the idea I had last year. Rather than a hyperlink, here's the original:

Quickly, I think Anakin could be turned by Palpatine by the following:
Anakin goes away (as posted many times before) to fight, leaving a pregnant Padme to give birth with the help of Obi-Wan and Yoda. Anakin may or may not know about the pregnancy, depending on how much rage Lucas feels he needs to be turned to the dark side.
Padme dies in a freak accident while accompanied by Obi-Wan. Despite his efforts, Ben can't save her. He actively seeks out Anakin to tell him personally.
Palpatine hears about this (minus the birthing, because of Jedi suspicions) and decides to use it as his long-awaited chance to turn Anakin into Vader.
Palpy tells Anakin that Padme's dead, along with her child (again, the twins were a secret). After letting him stew over it a bit, he tells Anakin that Obi-Wan's incompetence is to blame. This anger would push Anakin over the edge, setting up the climactic battle we should see between Anakin and Obi-Wan.
During the fight (which OUGHT to be the best in film history), Obi-Wan tries to tell Anakin that he did everything he could to save Padme, but quickly realizes he's lost his former pupil. Anakin, insane with rage, relentlessly attacks Obi-Wan. Kenobi's able to use Anakin's rage against him, knocking him into the famous tarpit.
Obi-Wan tries to help Anakin (now Vader, thanks to a musical transformation by John Williams) out of the tarpit, but Vader uses his last ounces of strength to force-propel himself up and out of the pit and tries to kill Ben. After Vader passes out, Obi-Wan takes Anakin to some sort of hospital and takes an active role in developing the very suit which we all know and love. During this time, he foolishly hopes he can still save Anakin, but once he's revived (in his new Vader suit), Vader vows vengeance on Obi-Wan and all Jedi.
The great irony of Ben helping make Vader's suit would be a great cinematic moment, and this whole post is just a quick idea I thought of. Feel free to agree, disagree, or whatever as you wish.

 

One problem I have with it, is I do not think there is any pov, that Obi could spin to convince himself Padme is alive, when he saw her die.

 

You're right about that one, I had to go and fix the post. Other than that, I think that would be a really cool scene. Seeing as how I thought it up, I better like it...

 

I like it. Another good idea!

Just thought of something; They better not give us any hints in the trailers to why Obi-Wan and Anakin finally fight. We all know they're going to, or at least have some kind of confrontation, and we know it produces legendary results, but we still dont know exactly why they do it, how it starts, what happens, who says what, etc. etc..
And I dont want to have a CLUE to any of that until I'm seeing the whole film.
I'm guessing we'll get one action shot, but man I hope theres no dialogue. A single "one-liner" said in a preview could spoil the whole surprise.


(BTW, stuff like this is the reason I enjoy these boards so much. I cant have this conversation with most people I know. This is cool. )

 

Good luck there arrowhead

 

what I don't want to see in the trailer is something like "A jedi betrayed because of blah blah." Of have Anakin yell "you let her die."

 

"In time you will learn to trust your instict, then you will invincible" Palpatine - ATOC

I think that is key to Palpatine's seduction. He could very well tempt/seduce/confuse Anakin by saying while Anakin fights(no matter who)

"The Jedi rid you of your insticts. They tell you to deny them and follow a forgotten code. But in reality your insticts are part of you, and by denying them you will be taking the power that is yours."

Anakin could very well begin to follow his insticts and he begins to feel the physical power of them. Then Palpatine could convince him by saying...

"Now you understand the power of your emotions. Do not let them be forgotten, let them be part of you and join me. It is the true nature of the force."

Though the dialoge I came up with sucks, I just wish I made my point clear.

 

Anakin does not seem the type to despair to me...i see his journey to the DS coming from anger, fear, jealousy, arrogance, etc.

Hmm...i think that despair and anger, fear etc, often goes hand in hand. Anakin got pretty sad after slaughtering the Tuskens, for example.
I just thought of how Anakin would feel after having lost both mother and wife, after feeling betrayed by his friends.
Even though he may know deep inside his heart that OB1/the Jedi are not to blame,
he takes out his frustration on them.
Maybe he will blame himself for not being able to save Padme´s life, but it´s too much for him to handle.
When filled with that much negative feelings,
(as Anakin probably will be)one must find a
way to get rid of them. The best way is to face the truth/facts and start dealing with reality. But that is also the most painful
way. It´s easier then to just sweep the problems under the carpet/blame someone else for the mistakes/whatever you did. That way, you will become a bitter person, but for the moment, it often feels like the easiest "way out".
Anakin´s anger/despair/fear takes over and he battles OB1, and the latter wins.
Now Anakin feels defeated, devastated, and it gets even worse when his master forgives him, reaches out his hand and begs him to go back with him.
This is probably the big moment:
I suppose all of us know how stupid you feel when you´ve been bad to someone, and that person is kind enough to forgive you.
The best thing would be to just give up and admit you were wrong, but that isn´t the easiest thing to do. If you succed, you´ve grown a bit, if you fail, you just become even more stubborn and angry, and the road "back" becomes even longer.

So, standing there at the edge of this hellhole, feeling like a total jerk and completely engulfed by bitterness, Anakin choose death rather than defeat, rather than admitting he was wrong, and tosses himself into the fire.

I think that could be a nice one

 

I think most of the pain will come when Anakin clumsily trips into a lava-infested volcano. He will get down on himself for ruining the entire saga and will slip into ultimate doom! Just kidding, he is the best actor ever! What the heck am I talking about? He is a poo head!

 

Just to lighten the discussion... My wife says that when people call Palpatine "Palps" or "Palpy" it reminds her of "Pedipalp" which is a spiders mouthpart... to which I replied, "So the head of the Galactic Senate is a spiders mouthpart?" Much riotous laughter....

 

What the heck?!? "Lighten the discussion?!?" Was my remark a little too serious for you "Darth Drew", if that's your real name! Yeah Baby!!!

 

Now I hope what I suggest isn't spoiler material. I am spoiler free but this maybe is a possibility. Probably a long shot, anyways.

Anakin, to me, is someone who is 'trying' to do right. Even though at times, he goes against his own nature. To me, in RotJ, he truly is believing that following the Emperor is the right way and 'the true meaning of the Force'. He doesn't say those words lightly. So it's possible the Emperor shows Anakin how weak the Jedi, who consider themselves the true way, are compared to his ways. Maybe Palps roasts Obi Wan, showing how easily he can handle Anakins Master. And maybe Anakin actually tries to save Obi-Wan, at the start, and has to give into the Emperor. The Emperor, not intentionally, shows Anakin the good of sacrificing himself to save Kenobi. Then , maybe, Kenobi is ungreatful to Anakin, later, and Anakin cant understand why. Anakin goes after him and who knows what the outcome is. So in ANH, when Vader confronts Obi-Wan, Vader's assuming Obi-Wan is still not of the true way of the Force. And that Vader, himself, is Master of what Obi-Wan never could be, since Anakin would feel Obi-Wan, like all Jedi, are misguided fools, which isnt far from the truth. Anyways, the important thing is that Anakin has to feel he's doing the right thing. Because it's only in RotJ when he realizes how clouded his vision has been. I hope that makes sense somehow.

Isurus the White

 

Hmmm...that's not bad.

"You don't understand the POWER of the Dark Side." I think that is why Anakin turns.

"It's not too late Father - there is still good in you, I sense it."

"Obi-Wan once thought as you do"

"It is too late for me, my son."

"I MUST obey my Master."

I just think Vader feels he has no choice in the matter, that he is a slave to the Dark Side, just as he used to be a slave on Tatooine.

Of course, he always has a choice, he just never realized it until Luke threw away his lightsaber and was willing to die rather than be turned.

 

I just think Vader feels he has no choice in the matter, that he is a slave to the Dark Side, just as he used to be a slave on Tatooine.

Boom.
Thats it. Thats it exactly. The most relevant quotes IMO are : "I MUST obey my master." and, "Its too late for me, my son."

Hes stuck. Trapped. A Slave.
And hes mad as hell about it so he takes it out on everybody else.

I think this all points very heavily to Palp causing Anakin pain in some way. Whether he inflicts it directly on Anakin, or Anakin sees Palp do something to someone else.
In RotJ Palp didnt hurt Luke until he refused to turn. Does Anakin refuse at first also?

 

[golf clap][golf clap][golf clap] well done again Garth Maul

"You don't understand the POWER of the Dark Side." I think that is why Anakin turns.

-Yes we definitely saw in Anakin the thirst for power, and admiration for those who properly wield power. Which is why he sees nothing wrong with what the Emperor does.


"It's not too late Father - there is still good in you, I sense it."

"Obi-Wan once thought as you do"

-Hints that Anavader turns before his battle w/ OBi, and Obi tries and fails to turn him back to the Jedi Order


"I MUST obey my Master."

-Sith power structure, as well as how much he believed in it.

Once again great job Garth

 

hmmmm...but I still think Anakin's journey to the Dark Side has to be a choice, and not based on responding to physical punishment.

I'd like to think that, even faced with physical torture, I'd never recant my religious beliefs, but I'm pretty sure I would say whatever my captors wanted very quickly.

When was Luke closest to joining the Dark Side? When Vader found out about Leia - Luke's anger was unbelievable and maybe unexpected by Vader, but he was within one stroke of his saber of killing his father.

I thought Palpatine zapping Luke was really like a resigned, "well, if you will not be turned then you will be destroyed!" As in, hmmm, there's no chance of turning Luke now, I might as well kill him.

I don't think Palps was zapping Luke to make him angry or to make him surrender to the Dark Side - I don't think Luke could do much more than cry out to his father.

EDIT: Thanks, Ghost, always nice to be appreciated, especially when all I have to do to earn your praise is quote ROTJ.

 

But we have scene Anakin in battle, and he is known to loose his cool. We know during the time between ep 1 & ep 2, Anakin has lost his light sabre numerous times, the way Obi chastises him for it during the opening chase scene. Also at the end when Obi & Ani go to confront Dooku, Obi tried to implement a strategy only to have Ani foolishly run into battle w/out thinking as Ani gave in to the desire of revenge.

Now look at Luke in ep6, at the beginning he had an intricate plan to rescue Han. He always stayed calm. He also stayed calm, and under control of his emotions when he faced the emperor. I beleive he would rather die, than join him, and would not allow the emperor to anger him, or play sith mind games with him.

Also when Vader saw the pain, I think it looks like Vader had first hand experience of what Luke felt. Like he experienced more than what Dooku fed him at Genosis.

 

That is true, his look speaks wonders, even without a discernable expression.

Hmmm...I wonder when exactly Anakin will turn, and when it will be revealed to Obi-Wan et al.?

I think Dooku is going to die near the start of the movie to symbolize the end of the Clone Wars and Anakin becoming a Jedi Knight. But what if, like so many (i.e. Ice) have mentioned, Lucas is going to give us a scene similar to the Throne Room?

Maybe Sidious will be on the Throne, but it will be Dooku standing there instead of Vader. And maybe Sidious makes the same rehearsed speech about the power of the Dark Side, and Anakin and Dooku get into a huge duel, which Dooku wins and proceeds to ZAP! the living heck out of Anakin, while Sidious tells him to "sink into your hatred and use your power!"

Then Dooku gets killed by Anakin - Force choke, maybe?, Sidious talks with Anakin and basically gets him to join the team, and then leaves.

Obi-Wan walks in, sees Dooku dead and Anakin injured but okay, and he's a hero.

Hooray! Now you're a Jedi Knight! But he's secretly already turned, and no one realizes it until...

he kills Mace...or...he fights Obi-Wan...or some other possibility.

 

"It's not too late Father - there is still good in you, I sense it."

"Obi-Wan once thought as you do"

You have to realize, though, that Anakin/Vader knows what a Jedi's sense of 'good' is. To him, it means 'wrong'. To translate, Luke is really saying "It's not too late Father - there is still good, as me and the Jedi would define it, in you." He steps to the side and sighs...possibly considering the notion that his idea of what 'good' is may be incorrect. So that even though Luke's version of good would be repulsed by Vader, he gives it a second thought, possibly for the first time since Kenobi said similar words to him eons prior.

"I MUST obey my Master."

-Sith power structure, as well as how much he believed in it.

This is dark Jedi territory not Sith. I know it's quite easy to keep blaming the Sith for this or that but this line of Force abusers which resulted in Palpatine and the like were disgruntled Jedi who applied Sith teachings, obviously much too powerful for them, to their ways. Not Jedi structure you say? Master and Padawan. Thats Jedi rule. I'll reiterate this time and time again. Oh, and if you notice, Yoda or anyone rarely mentions the Sith. They talk of the dark side, yes, but know better than to implicate true Sith.

[EDIT] oops... some more..

hmmmm...but I still think Anakin's journey to the Dark Side has to be a choice, and not based on responding to physical punishment.

Recall, as I may have mentioned, that during Episode 2, many of the Jedi, even the more experienced ones, are becoming arrogant and slipping to the dark side. The reason? Because they fear slipping to the dark side. And, like Anakin, they're giving so much attention to 'not' slipping to the dark side that they forget they've already slipped. It's not by choice, it's through ignorance. It's like saying "as long as I get a good job I'll enjoy things" but end up not enjoying things. It's not by choice, it's by paying so much attention to trying to get a good job that having fun is missed. Does that make sense? I think Anakin doesn't slip by choice. It's by misleading, which could be considered a scape goat or laziness not to be aware of whats going on, but he's thinking the choice he's making is right...not for wrong. Although I wont know that till I see Epi 3, at which point I may be completely wrong, but thats just a possibility.

Oh, and I like that scene idea by Garth but I'd change it so Dooku is making the speech and that Palpy 'acts' like he's being held by Dooku. I think I made a post elsewhere once about Dooku being surprised because he's trusting Sidious' plan, explaining the dark side to Anakin, and then is caught off guard when Sidious fingers Dooku as the bad guy. Anakin protects the Supreme Chancellor, his friend, defeating Dooku. But he utilizes his hatred to do so.

I cant wait to see the dang movie! There's just so many possibilities! Awesome.

Isurus the White

 

"There's just so many possibilities!'

You bring up a great point there Isurus. There are indeed many possibilities, of what can happen, what will cause other actions happen. And all we can do is wait.