Parallels Between LotR and SW

Hey all,

George Lucas often mentions that he wanted to create a modern mythos with archetypal characters. This was also J.R.R Tolkiens intention with LOTR. I was a huge fan of the LOTR books and the OT when i was younger and drew comparisons straight away. Does anyone else feel that George Lucas drew inspiration from LOTR or is it just that both have archetypal characters that occur in all great legends? Here's my thoughts...


1) Obi-Wan is paralleled by Gandolf

2) Luke is Frodo, finding out a "family secret", and possessing a mystical power.

3) the dark riders are sith lords in all but name, possessing the same power as Frodo, dark and menacing.

4) Sauron does not appear in the books other than by inference, for all intents and purposes neither does the Emperor

5) in creating the PT, Lucas was going back and trying to create back story for the OT, in a similar way, the silmarillion was published after LOTR.

6) The relationship between Legolas and Gimli is mirrored in the antagonistic relationship of C3P0 and R2D2

7) Allusions are made to the Sith and when they ruled the galaxy before, much like the second darkness

8) the political bribery of the PT is similar in how some race are bought by sauron, including saruman and Denethor

9) Anakin betrays the jedi order from within, Saruman betrays the white council, once being fair, he is corrupted by the power of the ring.

10) the idea of primitive societies overcoming technologically advanced ones with the Ewoks in ROTJ is mirrored when the ents invade isengard.

11) Gandalf is killed in a great battle, yet he comes back, so does Obi-wan, not only this, but that happens in the first book and the first film of the OT

12) When Gandalf falls, he says "fly you fools", when Obi-Wan "falls" he says "Run Luke"

13) Sauron's hand was cut off by Isildur, this sword was then passed on to Aragorn and was of great importance, Luke cuts off Vaders hand which defeats him, Luke's lightsaber is of great importance(i know he made a new one)

14) Palpatine deceives the senate into giving him power, Sauron was labelled, "The deceiver" by the elves as he deceived all of the races of middle earth.

15) Only those chosen could go to the undying lands, those who had bore the ring, they would live forever, only those chosen would retain their form after death.

16) the last book is called Return of the King, the last film is called, Return of the Jedi, both are about a long forgotten order Jedi/line of Gondor returning after defeating evil.

17) Christpher Lee is in Both, only kidding...


Thats about all i can think of at the moment, anyone agree, or does anyone see any other similarities?


Thad



Edited Title.

 

Similar, like all great stories are, but STAR WARS is not "Lord of the RIngs in space"

 

George has stated before that one of his insperations was The Lord of the Rings.

 

Both Tolkien and George Lucas were influenced by mythology and the common human mythos. I then suggest that you read up on Joseph Campbell the author of A Hero with a Thousand Faces.

The common ties between Rings and Wars is the mythic influence which can all be examined within this thread,
http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=16684044

All myths have this common story of a fool that follows a guide and enters the wider world to become the hero. This wider world can often times be in the form of a labyrinth (ie. Death Star, Dwarf Caverns--sorry I haven't read Fellowship in a long time.)

-Seldon

 

Some interesting parallels there, but I wouldn't go as far as saying Star Wars is "Lord of the Rings in Space".

 

Definite parallels there, I agree. Tolkien's work is more carefully crafted, though, as it was written as a literary treatise to explore a world rather than a draft for a b-movie serial...

 

George has stated before that one of his insperations was The Lord of the Rings.



When did he state that?

 

He said that he was inspired by fantasy books(including LOTR), space operas, and mythology books.

 

paralells? sure. But in your little analysis you didn't talk much about where Anakin fits in. The star wars saga is Anakin's story and LOTR has no Anakin types.

 

SW=Harry Potter.

An orphan boy living with his grumpy uncle and aunt finally leaves them after an old man with a beard takes him away from his boring and wretched home life and into a big huge world. Along the way he meets a boy and girl companion, and many other strange creatures along the way.

But I am not so sure Ron Weasley would shoot Greedo first or not.

 

The elements in both Lord of the Rings and Star Wars are archetypes that have been told hundreds of times through the course of thousands of years, existing in the most ancient stories and literature.

 

Christopher Lee.

hahahaha! But seriously both his parts as Dooku and Sauraman where very similair. The second in command of all evil. Walked away from the "good or light" side. I kept waiting for him to yell down from the tower to the ents. "Then my friends, it is finished" to the ents.

haha

 

I don't think that it is co-incidence ... firstly, LOTR is a very well-known fantasy saga, therefore it is likely that other fantasy writers (which includes sci-fi) would draw inspiration from it whether they are aware of it or not. Secondly, LOTR is an epic struggle of good versus evil when almost all hope has faded. As is SW. It would be extremely difficult for the two to be completely different from each other.

 

LOL Thats hilarious... who knew..but the only thing is Voldermort isn't Harry's father or is he guess that one we will just have to find out

 

4) Sauron does not appear in the books other than by inference, for all intents and purposes neither does the Emperor


Ummm have you watched the CT, the Emperor actually does appear in 2 of the films!

 

There are a number of parallels between the two, yes, but Star Wars is NOT "LotR in space"

A few points, some of which are a bit nitpicky, I'll admit...


3) the dark riders are sith lords in all but name, possessing the same power as Frodo, dark and menacing.

Dark and menacing, yes... but not possessing the same power.


5) in creating the PT, Lucas was going back and trying to create back story for the OT, in a similar way, the silmarillion was published after LOTR.


The Sil was published later, yes, but was written well before. Tolkien's real story was the Silmarillion itself, to him, Lord of the Rings was more of a side story.

10) the idea of primitive societies overcoming technologically advanced ones with the Ewoks in ROTJ is mirrored when the ents invade isengard.

Solely look at technology, you could have a point... but when you consider how strong the ents are and why they dont NEED technology.. this somewhat falls apart.

 

What morals or values are presented in LOTR?

 

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts (Fellowship).

Respect for and appreciation of diversity can overcome those who would want everyone to be the same (Fellowship vs. Sauron).

The smallest person can change the course of history, with a little bit of help from his friends (Frodo + fellowship).

Good and evil are two sides of the same coin, and there's potential for evil in every sentient creature (two the most powerful beings in Middle-Earth, Gandalf and Galadriel, didn't dare to take the ring when it was offered to them because in their hands it would be too dangerous).

Redemption is possible (Boromir was tempted by the ring and died as a consequence, but he repented before the end - it can be argued that Boromir and Saruman combined are the closest thing we get to Anakin/Vader in LotR).

Don't despair (Denethor died because he lost hope). It ain't over 'till it's over.

 

Hey all,

First off, the Silmarillion WAS started before LOTR, however it was finished 20 years after LOTR, and yes the Silmarillion is the real story of middle earth, but isn't Anakin's turn to the darkside inthe PT the real story of starwars?


There are many symbolic similarities between LOTR and Starwars. By this i mean that the subtext, symbolism, and themes are the same. In starwars you have the force, people are corrupted by the darkside and this is all about temptation. Similarly the ring is all about temptation, who would pass the test, Luke passes the test in ROTJ but Frodo does not, bilbo passes the test, as does galadriel, gandalf and ofcours Tom Bombadill, the only being who could not be corrupted by the ring. So there are obvious differences with plot, but i feel the ideas there in are the same.


Thad

 

The 'real story' of Star Wars is highly debateable, but I would tend to go with the redemption of Anakin, not the fall of Anakin.

The reason the Silmarillion was finished after LotR was only because Tolkien kept revising it because he couldn't get anybody to pubish it. Had a publisher been willing, it would have been published at least 10 years before LotR, and possibly before even The Hobbit.

Trust me, I spent half of last fall studying The Sil in school.

 

I'm not so sure about the Sil. Tolkien published plenty between 1955 (LotR) and 1977 (The Silmarillion).

 

Its sort of ironic, isnt it? Films that draws inspiration from a book that was said could never be made into a film until the technolgy that the book-inspired films unlocked made it seem more and more a reality.

 

The 'real story' of Star Wars is highly debateable, but I would tend to go with the redemption of Anakin, not the fall of Anakin.

I'd probably say it was actually the whole fall and redemption of Anakin that makes up the Saga...ANH is the only film where Anakin kind 'takes a back seat' because we see how much the Vader personna is in place, but even there there are a few Anakin-like elements to Vader. Such as he keenness on ship-to-ship combat and his skills in shooting down so many pilots there, or his anger as he holds up the Tantive IV's captain up in the air.

 

... Voldemort is not Harry's father, but he still has close ties to him.

The orphan boy discovers he has incredible powers he never knew he had and is taught to use them so he can eventually overthrow the evil dark lord. The boy has very close ties to the dark lord and he doesn't even know it! He can't believe it when he finally finds out. There is even a prophecy which refers to the dark lord being overthrown.

 

One could perhaps say that both Lord of the Rings and Star Wars updates mythical themes and symbolism so they can relate to the problems of the modern world.

About technology, I have an edition of the Silmarillion where Tolkien states in a letter included in the introduction that one of his main concern was technology and its effect upon nature. To be a bit more specific, technology as a means to power and thus severely misused. The descriptions of Isengard and Mordor sounds like industries wreaking havoc on the environment.

I think the Death Star is a somewhat similar symbol. Also the clone troopers could be another parallell here. These two are Sidious attempts at using advanced technology to gain more power. The Death Star is perhaps the stronger symbol since it's used to destroy living worlds.

In Lord of the Rings and Star Wars several good characters are associated with a love of all things living. The elves tend to the animals and forests. In the same way the Jedi care and protect living beings.

I agree with the second opinion. Ewoks are better compared to the role of the hobbits. Both are "weak" compared to the strong heroes but by doing what they must they manage to defeat evil. Here I find another strong parallell between the two sagas. Magic doesn't help the heroes. Frodo fails his quest but he suceeds because he pitied Gollum and thus let him live. That choice led to the destruction of the Ring. In the same way Luke can't defeat Vader and Palpatine using the Force, but through love (and pity I guess) he helps Anakin to find his way back to the good side.

Sauron and Palpatine are similar if one sees them as personifications of evil. Dooku and Saruman are more like two initially good wise men that wants more power and lets it seduce them. They use evil as means to an end.

That's what I can think of now .