Patience and its place in the SW Saga

?Patience is a virtue? some prophet once said. This is something that?s been rumbling round my brain for a few months now, and I think it?s time to put my thoughts to you all.

Throughout the SW saga, there are some key references to this character trait. What puzzled me most was when I tried to characterise this trait to a particular side ? good or evil. Patience appears to me as a peaceful act of biding time and not acting irrationally. On first impressions a Jedi trait. But with the events of the PT, we see patience used as a key tactic by Darth Sidious in the Sith?s rise to power. So what?s the deal?

Let?s look at the use of patience in the SW saga so far:

1) Darth Sidious used years of patience and timing to conceal the Sith and wait for the right time to reveal themselves to the Jedi.
Darth Maul: ?At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi....?. This suggests many, many years of training and waiting for the right time to strike. Although the timing was good, a few little things got in the way of the plans, but this was just the beginning??

2) Anakin?s first mission and the Dooku confrontation.
Palpatine: ?And finally they?ve given you your first assignment. Your patience has paid off?.?. Whether it was guidance or patience, Palpy emphasises this fact to Anakin. It seems as though patience is a dark side trait that Palpy uses as an ally to achieve his aims and goals, even trying to coach Anakin in this trait for later use.
At the end of AOTC we see Anakins? impatience against Dooku. ?No, I?m taking him now!? screamed Anakin as he went for Dooku in the Geonosis hangar. That lack of patience nearly cost both Anakins and Obi-Wans lives, and ended in Anakin losing his arm.

Bridging the PT and OT?..

3) Obi-Wan and Yoda in hiding.

Instead of facing off against Darth Sidious, Yoda and Obi-Wan decide (for whatever reasons) to use patience as an ally. They knew they probably couldn?t defeat Sidious and/or Vader, so they went into hiding to wait for the new hope (Luke) to come of age. Hopefully the logic behind this decision will become more apparent, but knowing the events of the OT, we know they made the right choice

4) Luke and lack of patience.

Yoda: ?Only a fully trained Jedi, with the force as his ally will conquer Vader and his Emperor.?
Obi-Wan: ?Patience!?
We are now starting to see patience as a Jedi trait. Not rushing to save his friends and going into battle with Vader is now the sensible thing to do according to Yoda and Obi-Wan (Think AOTC where Yoda lets Dooku go to save Anakin and Obi-Wan?s lives for comparison ? Did Yoda learn from the error of his ways?). Or is Luke?s lack of patience now become a dark-side trait? Luke pays for his impatience with his hand, as Anakin did.

5) Sidious? lack of patience.

I borrowed this idea from a post by someone somewhere that I have forgotten. In it, it said that Sidious/Palpatine failed in his attempt to beat the Rebellion by trying to turn Luke and finishing off the rebellion all in one go. Had he used his once-successful patience to crack Luke and the rebellion over time, he might have succeeded. Or was it is his lack of patience that became his downfall?

So where does patience sit in the SW universe? It appears as though it is the key to success and victory. In the PT we see the Sith use patience to rise to power and take control of the Republic. In the OT, we see the Jedi use patience to achieve ultimate ?victory? by using the principle to train Luke and destroy the Sith. In writing this I have found some direction in this idea. What I would like to see now in Ep3 (as much as I hate preconceived ideas) is a scene where Yoda says:

Yoda: "Served him well, has Sidious? patience. Follow his example we must Obi-Wan, if we are to free the galaxy of the Emperor?

IRIS OUT.

 

dont forget about the patience needed while waiting for the next Episode to come to theatres

 

i apparently did not have enough patientce to read this post

 

I think one of the running themes of Star Wars is one of patience, indeed. I think many times (as in the examples you've shown) we see that patience pays off (for the good guys and the bad guys), but that a lack of patience has the opposite effect for both. But ultimately, the patience that Yoda and Obi-Wan are able to have in waiting for Luke to grow up and in training him pays off the most. Because when Luke is patient and doesn't go hurtling after Vader recklessly in ROTJ, he is finally able to turn Vader- the thing that's been waited for most patiently by Yoda and Obi-Wan since the time Anakin was discovered. It took a lot of waiting and a lot of mistakes for Anakin to finally fullfill his role as the Chosen One, but with patience they never give up on him.

And that my friends is the most times I have ever used the word 'patience' at once.

-sj loves kevin spacey

 

tl;dr
patience is an iimportant jedi value which you shown in your huge post

 

Yoda and Obi-Wan didn't use patience in waiting for Anakin to be turned because they didn't think it possible. They thought that, and wanted, Luke to KILL Vader, not turn him.

As Return of the Jedi rolls around they could care less if Anakin is the Chosen One, they simply want him and Palpatine dead.

 

Patience is part of the good side. What Palpy calls patience is merely calculated timing and manipulation. He uses the Jedi virtue of patience to twist the meaning in Anakin's eyes to his way of thinking. What Palpatine does is the antithisis of patience. He is unable to wait and let things play out, he took action to conceal the Sith using the darkside to cloud the Jedi's ability to see, he took an apprentice to train, he manipulated the world around him. While he appeared to wait he was actually doing.

 

T-R I agree that they didn't really think Anakin could be turned, but they still had used patience in waiting that long for Luke to grow up to an age where he could at least bring an end to the Empire. However, even though Obi-Wan says that if Luke can't kill Vader, then the Emperor has already won, do you think that means he thinks Luke HAS to kill him? Maybe he just knows that if Luke doesn't have the strength to kill him if it comes to that, that he will go to the Dark Side and become the Emperor's pawn instead.

-sj loves kevin spacey

 

First of all, this is the most interesting discussion I've read in a long time.

Doesn't the entire Sith order show patience by waiting 2000 years in order to finally get their revenge? I think so and thus I agree that patience plays the role of key to victory.

"However, even though Obi-Wan says that if Luke can't kill Vader, then the Emperor has already won, do you think that means he thinks Luke HAS to kill him?"

Yes, I think Obi-Wan literally means Luke should kill his father. I get the feeling that losing Anakin to the Dark side has hurt Obi-Wan terribly. He just cannot believe the good Anakin exists somewhere in Vader. Maybe thinking of Anakin as definitely dead became the only way Obi-Wan could see it and thus carry on.

What I find interesting also is Luke's impatience in ESB. Yes, he loses a hand. But I consider that rushing off as a key decision. I think Luke already at that point felt the good in Vader. What's interesting is that AOTC mirrors this with Anakin rushing off from his duties to protect Padmé in order to save his mom. Father and son exhibits lack of patience but also lack of faith in others. Luke does not seem to believe his friends can save themselves. Anakin does the same in a way.

So perhaps it's a combination of lack of faith and patience. But imo Luke makes up for his lack of patience by showing an extraordinary display of faith when jumping from the bridge. It could be seen as Luke rather chosing death than evil, but also faith in help somehow arriving in some form.

 

I do think that Obi-Wan thinks Luke HAS to kill Vader. He tells Luke that Vader is more machine than man, twisted and evil. To OWK as of RotJ, there is NO thought that Vader can be turned.

 

I don't think there is one definite answer to this question. This is just a case of a fan (me) looking too deep into minute detail . GL didn;t write the films to be pored over in minute details, but it's fun to look at these things.

When I did start thinking about it, I couldn't find a specific answer, and rightly so thought it was a topic for debate....hence the thread.

What MariahJade2 said about Palpy being a manipulator is very true. While Palpy was waiting, he was also manipulating but in doing this he also exhibited patience. Yoda and Obi just waited. In this sense it is manipulation which is the distinction, but both sides are exhibiting extreme patience.

In a world where emotions and characteristics are categorised into good and evil, this is somewhat an anomoly.