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Senate Pax watever-ia World/Global domination, an epic waste of time?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Likewater, Mar 7, 2013.

  1. Likewater

    Likewater Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 31, 2009
    Some mother Kriffers are always trying to iceskate up hill.- Weasly Snipes (alterd fro profanity)

    "Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that in glory and triumph they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot."- Carl Sagan

    Hegemony, Empire, Most by war, a few by trade, all end up the same scatterd broken and by large forgotten. If that empire is fortunate some third rate power donning its name like a shed skin.

    It's not enough to trade, but dominate trade! Secure total independence from whoever is holding something you need.

    Is it simple competativeness taken too far?

    Is it some quirk of human evolution that imprinteed a need to dominate deep withing the human psyche?

    Is it a learned trait?

    But after all the eventual collapse of various empires and hagemonies, people still try to build more. With the belief that God, technology, the cosmos, nature, justice, kittens are on their side and this time we'll do it right! but it always ends the same.
     
  2. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Malleus Maleficarum star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    Hooked On Phonics or Rosetta Stone: English would not have been an epic waste of time.
     
  3. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    I want to say "bah, commies!" but this is a Senate thread, so... instead, I'll suggest that you're framed a rather curious question. Are you asking whether the lust for domination is a waste of time, or are you asking whether hegemony and empire are created primarily out of lust for domination?
     
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  4. SithLordDarthRichie

    SithLordDarthRichie CR Emeritus: London star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2003
    Total domination is arguably ultimately defeatist, competition on the whole brings the best out of everyone. One company having a market monopoly will ultimately lead to stifled innovation since they don't need to put the effort in to "beat" anyone anymore, which would can lead to consumers turning away and said company losing profit. This is whjy the free market has been so great in building the western world, it promotes competition and continued innovation.


    If you are a conqueror, what happens once you no longer have enemies to fight? Sometimes the fight was the only reason for conquering in the first place.

    What would have happened if the Nazis won WW2 and took over the world? With no-one left to clense and no-one fighting against him, would Hitler have got bored and disbanded it all? Would the desire for a Master Race have led to inbreeding/too small a genetic pool and ultimately destroyed the 1000 Year Reich?
    Hard to say, but history tells us no Empire is everlasting and no-one is dominant forever whether they be Human or Dinosaur or Cyborg from the future etc
     
  5. wannasee

    wannasee Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 24, 2007
    If you look at it from the point of view that "time destroys all things" then yes, everything is a waste of time
     
    GrandAdmiralJello likes this.
  6. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    I'm not sure exactly what this thread is supposed to be about, Likewater. Maybe it's better to talk about examples?


    Here's a list of some empires you might want to use as examples:


    The Achaemenid Empire and other Persian Empires
    [​IMG]

    Alexander's Empire
    [​IMG]

    Roman and Byzantine Empires
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    The Caliphates and Ottoman Empire
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Mongol Empire
    [​IMG]

    Portuguese Empire
    [​IMG]

    Spanish Empire
    [​IMG]

    Dutch Empire
    [​IMG]

    French Empire
    [​IMG]

    British Empire
    [​IMG]

    Russian Empire and USSR
    [​IMG]
     
  7. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    The whole "empires always fall" thing is pretty stupid. People always die too -- I guess there's no point to living, huh?
     
  8. Rogue_Ten

    Rogue_Ten Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2002
    lmao you forgot the american empire
     
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  9. Violent Violet Menace

    Violent Violet Menace JCC Ravager star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2004
    You consider empire building as much a necessity as life itself? :confused:
     
  10. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Yes that is clearly how analogies work.
     
  11. Emperor_Billy_Bob

    Emperor_Billy_Bob Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2000
    You think Augustus Caesar, Alexander, or Napoleon would have enjoyed their life more as random nobodies?

    Call it the existential tragedy of absurd human life, if you will, but once you have reached past the subsistence point, there are only so many things to do in the world. Most of human life is dominated by the competition to amass material privilege (and thereby social privilege) and thereby domination over other humans.
     
  12. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2004
    What would the American empire be anyway? Us and all our allies that may or may not listen to what we say?
     
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  13. V-2

    V-2 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2012
    All this alterd fro profanity!

    And the Chinese seem to be doing very well with theirs too.
     
  14. Violent Violet Menace

    Violent Violet Menace JCC Ravager star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2004
    Yes, that is why I'm always disgusted and tune out whenever a politician starts talking about "national interests". Conceivably, the "national interests" of any one country on earth is for all other countries to eat **** and die, so that said country can then inherit the world and all its resources for itself.

    "And furthermore, it is my belief that Carthage should be destroyed."
     
  15. wannasee

    wannasee Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 24, 2007
    It is a politician's duty to talk about national interests. What would you have them talk about?
     
  16. Violent Violet Menace

    Violent Violet Menace JCC Ravager star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2004
    In an ideal world they'd be honest like the Romans, and say it straight: "It is my belief that Carthage should be destroyed". Why sugarcoat the law of the jungle?
     
  17. Rogue_Ten

    Rogue_Ten Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2002
    how about all the developing world countries we've beg borrowed stolen or assassinated our way to dominion over?
     
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  18. Emperor_Billy_Bob

    Emperor_Billy_Bob Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2000

    Modern power plays just have to be cloaked in the tenets of liberalism.
     
  19. Violent Violet Menace

    Violent Violet Menace JCC Ravager star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2004
    That's adorable. If history is any indication, usually, they may. Those who may not, usually don't "may not" for very long.
     
    V-2 likes this.
  20. wannasee

    wannasee Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 24, 2007
    What is the source of this inanity? does anyone know?
     
  21. Emperor_Billy_Bob

    Emperor_Billy_Bob Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2000
    What is the inanity?
     
  22. Rogue_Ten

    Rogue_Ten Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2002
    frank appraisal of the behaviour of hegemons?
     
  23. wannasee

    wannasee Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 24, 2007
    The inanity would be that "modern power plays just have to be cloaked in the tenets of liberalism."
     
  24. Emperor_Billy_Bob

    Emperor_Billy_Bob Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2000
    The source is my brain....via my experience and a critical understanding of the world.
     
  25. wannasee

    wannasee Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 24, 2007
    I'm not saying your comment is inane. I'm saying that the fact that "modern power plays have to be cloaked in the tenets of liberalism" is inane.