Lit Pellaeon and the Imperial Remnant (split from Thrawn thread)

Once Jagged introduces voting for the supreme leader - it may be closer to it than it ever was before, at least.

 

I'd also note that Daala abolished speciesism for pragmatic reasons - their backs were against the wall and they just can't afford to turn away anyone who can help because of prejudice. It wasn't some big moral awakening.

 

Yup - she focused on "move away from sexism", Pellaeon brought up Thrawn as an example of a reason to move away from speciesism - and the United Warlord Coalition of theirs rather quickly moved that way:

The information broker grumbled. "Information on Imperial activities, eh? Couldn't narrow it down a little, I suppose? Noooo , that's too much to hope for, isn't it? We could at least limit ourselves to current Imperial activities, couldn't we?"
"Yes," Leia said. "We want to know what the remnants of the Empire are up to right now."
"Oh, good -- that's much easier, isn't it?" the shell creature said sarcastically. "I suppose you require a specific listing of every individual's activities -- I have records of five billion or so, and that's without even looking hard -- or would generalizations be good enough, hmmm?"
"Generalizations would be sufficient," Leia answered tightly.
Without a word, the smooth head slipped back into the dark opening with a wet pop. Leia heard muffled rummaging sounds as the creature stirred about, as if it were searching through a labyrinth inside the enormous shell. She wondered what the creature could be doing in there; then the damp head popped up again and turned its eye cluster toward Leia.
"You're in luck, aren't you? -- plenty of schemes afoot. Imperial forces have been unified, squabbling warlords executed. Starship construction increased tenfold, new soldiers appearing by the tens of thousands -- that the sort of thing you're looking for? Imperial military forces have clustered around a single commander, and it would appear that even women and aliens are allowed to serve to the extent of their abilities -- a vast change from the Emperor's way of thinking, wouldn't you say? Charming to see an enlightened Imperial commander, isn't it?"
Han looked over at her, and Leia sat up straight. The alien information broker had piqued her interest, despite her initial resistance. Could it actually be telling the truth? Leia suspected this entire charade was still part of Durga's scheme, a distraction to keep them concerned about one threat while the Hutts completed another one. But even Durga's ulterior motives did not preclude an actual Imperial plot.
Leia said, "Do you know what their plans are? Has the Empire formed some sort of strategy?"
The information broker wavered in the air. "Scattered Imperial fleets have come together with such a buildup of weapons they are almost certainly planning a major assault against the New Republic , wouldn't you think? Specific target unknown, so it's no use asking, is it?" The information broker swiveled its eye cluster toward Korrda. "May I go now? I have a lot of work to do -- you can see how busy I am, can't you?"
"Wait," Han interrupted. "Who is this new Imperial commander? I need to know."
The information broker rumbled deep inside its body. "Oh, that's all you want, is it? Why not ask for the number of sand grains on the beaches of Pil-Diller , or ask me to count the leaves in the forests of Ithor, eh?"
Korrda rapped the shell with his gnarled stick again. "Shut up and answer the question."
"All right, all right, I was just getting to that, wasn't I?" the information broker said, and slithered back into the shell, where it rummaged around for an interminable time before it finally popped out again. "Daala," the creature said. "The admiral in charge of the Imperial forces is named Daala, you see? But that's all -- I've scraped the walls, haven't I? Since I have no more information, good night!"


Ships large and small clustered around a staggeringly immense grid of landing platforms and docking bays, a huge nexus built of metal and glittering with panes of transparisteel. It hid in the dark void of space between star systems and would not be easy to locate unless one already knew where to look. The complex was studded with antennas and trackers, perimeter defense satellites, and automated droid ships that monitored the dizzying flow of ship activity. The coordinate vectors took them to a central platform where thousands of ships had already gathered. Dorsk 81 stiffened in his seat.
"Easy,” Kyp said. "We have to do this."
The alien gave a jerky nod and brought the shuttle in to land among all the other ships. Figures streamed toward the open mall area of the nexus station, a room large enough for an audience of tens of thousands. Stormtroopers marched about, ushering spectators to acceptable standing places for the rally.
"I can't go out there," Dorsk 81 said. "The Empire doesn't allow nonhuman soldiers."
"They seem to have changed their rules," Kyp answered, indicating some of the uniformed personnel, an array of exotic humanoids and strange flying creatures.
"Here." Kyp rummaged in the shuttle's uniform bin. He pulled out two sets of overalls with the insignia of the repair team assigned to the outer depot where Kyp and Dorsk 81 had stolen the shuttle. "We'll wear these, and nobody will know the difference."

 

No, if the Remnant fell and was absorbed by the Republic, it would definitely be a good thing. Pelly was ruling as a military dictator. No one elected him, he was accountable to no one, and even the moffrence couldn't really remove him. Jello's analogy of the DPRK was good -- it's military junta with a cult of personality. I'll take the democracy over the military state where genocide was considered cool, the slave trade was encouraged, and power came from the barrel of a turbolaser.

This is the real reason I hate Pellaeon, frankly. His characterization is what led to the rash of 'good imperials' that led people to believe there is a moral equivalence between the Empire and the NR. There is not.

 

What source suggests that the slave trade was encouraged during the Pellaeon era? Wasn't a point made in Vision of the Future of how the Remnant had moved away from enslavement of aliens?

 

You're right. I'll concede that point, but maintain the one that it is still an inherently discriminatory state. The Remnant is a continuation of the Empire, staffed with former Imperials. They undoubtedly participated in the slave trade, and the implementation of policies that targeted aliens, and HuMan High Culture is a key part of that. You can't eradicate that sort prejudice over night, and after VoTF, we never see a alien Imperial until the Legacy Period.

And even so, it's still a fascist military dictatorship that condones genocide.

 

The President of the New Republic, Cal Omas, also did - when that genocide was of the Yuuzhan Vong. It was only Vergere's intervention that prevented him from carrying it out.

The Remnant was a long way from nice - but it was less evil than the Empire tended to be - enough that making peace with it in Vision of The Future seemed to be intended to come across as a huge success for the New Republic, and not as a huge moral failure.

 

Under Zahn's pen, who was the #1 culprit behind the Empire's leatherpantsing. The way I view it, peace with the remnant is better then war with it. It never having been made in the first place and being absorbed into the NR is best of all.

 

Oh, and the majority of the characters disapproved of Omas' actions there. Note that no one ever disapproves of Alderaan's fate in the Remnant.

 

That was pretty much how the Corellia trilogy had it (with a bunch of ex-imperials forming a new threat in the Corellia system)- before KJA introduced the Second Imperium, and then Zahn introduced a surviving Remnant.

No-one from the Remnant ever mentions Alderaan's fate "on-page", true, in the Zahn books. In Planet of Twilight, Daala is said to have become disillusioned with Tarkin over it, though.

 

I'd suggest that much of the Pentastar Alignment Government (which was derived from the Imperial Government - with Grand Moff Kaine changing very little) survived - and was there when what remained of the Navy arrived, fleeing the Core after Daala's unsuccessful campaign.

Rogriss also continued to serve very late - even after Daala's fall.

 

True - but his lack of commitment to Human High Culture, and willingness to use aliens in the Pentastar Patrol (as well as avoiding direct warfare with the New Republic for years)

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ardus_Kaine

may have been major factors in making the Alignment less repressive than the Empire - and making it more open to the reforms of Daala and Pellaeon when the Imperial Remnant merged with it - thus, making it more palatable for the New Republic to make peace with it.

It may have been both a "thug state" and less repressive than the Empire itself.

That said - it could be argued to be another Legends equivalent to the First Order in the way the New Republic was in a Cold War with it but avoided direct conflict.

In which case, the Red Moons:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Red_Moons

would be the Resistance.

 

So according to some the only TRUE Empire was when Palpatine commanded it? Sorry, but giving the circunstances (New Republic winning), the Remnant WAS the Empire (think the Empire + emergency powers).

 

. . . No. There was a legitimate successor state to the Empire -- the Reborn Emperor's Dark Empire. When it fell and Palpatine died for good, power should have gone to the advisors -- Pestage, Amedda, the rest. While it could be argued that Carnor Jax's Empire was legitimate due to his connection to one of those councils, Pelly and friends just declared themselves the Empire without any legitimacy therein. It would be like tomorrow I took over a gas station and called myself the Napoleonic Remnant. I would not have any legitimacy from Napoleon.

 

Palpatine - or The Ruling Council (Sate Pestage or Ars Dangor as its leaders).

Since Ars Dangor also died at Byss with Palpatine - everyone after Ars Dangor is seen as "pretenders" (Carnor Jax, then Xandel Carivus, then Daala, then Pellaeon and the Moffs, then Jagged Fel).

Somehow, when Jagged Fel (or his son) declares himself Emperor, the Empire becomes legitimate again after that.

Kaine swore loyalty to Clone Palpatine (thereby giving the Pentastar Alignment some legitimacy again) - after the abandoning of the Deep Core (Daala killing off all its warlords, and then losing a fight with the New Republic), Kaine's Pentastar Alignment was probably the closest thing Pellaeon could find to an Imperial state - so he swore loyalty to its Moffs, and put what remained of the Imperial Military at their service.
Only after they ordered him into several futile campaigns did he finally stop obeying all their orders, when it came to military action at least - and he didn't really start ordering them around until the Yuuzhan Vong War.

 

Regarding Pellaeon - with the death of so many people at Byss - he had to find the highest ranking surviving Imperial Officer. It would appear that Treuten Teradoc might qualify -

http://www.starwars.com/news/the-imperial-warlords-despoilers-of-an-empire-part-2

Although poor physical specimens, the Teradocs excelled at naval theory and worked fanatically to outperform one another in the Corulag Academy. This one-upmanship paid off when they achieved the rank of captain almost simultaneously, part of a Victory-class Star Destroyer rapid-response taskforce under High Admiral Zsinj, assigned to quell threats in the Quelii Oversector. Part of the reason for their fast promotion was that the 100 VSDs of the “Crimson Command” were old and small, and hull-plated with distinctive red havod alloy instead of traditional, battleship-gray doonium. These puny “pink” antiques did not match the masculine ideal of most young Imperial officers; in their sibling rivalry, however, Treuten and Kosh didn’t care—until, that is, Treuten was promoted to high admiral over his younger brother and took command of the fleet. The situation became intolerable for Kosh as the older Teradoc took every opportunity to rub it in his face—thus goading Kosh into clutching an admiralty of his own aboard a bigger, more modern Imperial II-class Star Destroyer, Lancet, and scorning his big brother’s outdated girly boats.
As neither of the Teradocs was present at the Endor debacle, both took a cue from the rash of Imperials going renegade and acted immediately—mostly in fear of his near relation getting the better of him.

having been promoted to high admiral rather than "assuming the title himself" - as well as being in possession of the largest surviving fleet.

And once Daala had taken over as Supreme Commander, then resigned the title to him - he had to find surviving Imperial governors to report to. Those governing the Pentastar Alignment were probably the closest thing, in his eyes, to a surviving "Imperial multi-world government" that was left.

 

The Empire it should be noted actually has a continuation of direct rule.

Palpatine passed it down to the Ruling Council who made Thrawn leader who was replaced by the Emperor who was replaced by the Ruling Council who made Carnor Jax leader who then died and it was dissolved.

The Imperial Remnant was made by Daala and Pellaeon, so it's a legally distinct entity, IMHO.

Peculiarly, I'd say Grand Moff Kaine is the first head of its state since it's mostly made of his former territories.

 

But Jax and the Ruling Council destroyed all of Palpatine's clones, which you can think of as an assassination. So I don't consider the Crimson Empire a legitimate successor. The Emperor and all those loyal to him died with Byss.



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In the words of Dragon Age's Witch of the Wilds, Flemeth.

"As if that would be the first time a King was made in such a way."

It's even legal under Sith law.

 

Jagged Fel is Snoke!