Discussion in 'Community' started by Darth McClain, Nov 9, 2011.
his official title was professor emritus same as you Rox.
Which is exactly why Paterno might not be guilty of that crime.
Paterno was told of a crime. At that point, the law doesn't say anything about witnessing a crime. Why because the law expects the moral person to report a crime. A crime, not a suspicion. At this point, Paterno becomes the one making the report and taking it to his superiors. Its possible they got misinterpreted info from Joe that may have led them to believe it was a suspicion of child abuse. At that point they had an obligation to report it.
But Paterno should have said that the witness go to the police since he saw a crime committed.
There was no suspicion. So the law didn't need to apply to this case. Thus the witness is at fault for not going to the police. if the police never came to him then he knew it was his responsibility to do something. But he did nothing. In that case he could have prevented the other victims. At the same time, Paterno knew and would have been aware of any investigations by police. Yet he stood by and did nothing. Legally they are both are off the hook. But when they asked Paterno to retire in 2004 it was clear to Paterno that nothing was going to be done and he could have stepped up then and gotten the witness to step forward. Yet he did nothing. So its possible he may not be tried for failing to report the incident but at the same time, he allowed the defendant to keep going by his actions and he knew his actions would have led to others getting hurt. So he could be tried with conspiracy to conceal a crime. McQueary, not so much.
I get that notion, but I doubt that anything would happen that quickly. I wouldn't be surprised if he had more health problems in the next six months to a year, though.
I would give ten bucks to anyone that cuts down that statue and sells it for scrap.
So, looks like Patriots offensive coordinator Bill O'Brien is the next head coach at Penn State. There's already some negative feedback to him from alumni. I can easily understand why they didn't want to bring in anyone who had previous ties to Penn State and/or Joe Paterno, and why it's taken so long to fill the position. This job will be more than just recruiting and coaching. It's about rehabilitating a program to the public.
It seems as if alumni weren't consulted at all. LaVarr Arrington is reportedly "done with Penn State" because O'Brien is an outsider. It's obvious that Arrington is overreacting, but I think this quote summarizes the way a lot of former players and general alumni feel about the program.
That said, they couldn't hire Bradley to be the next head coach for obvious reasons. Several prominent candidates with Penn State ties said they weren't interested, like Mike Munchak, or signed new contracts, like Al Golden.
Best of luck to Coach O'Brien. Despite his fall from grace, Paterno still left many positive legacies around State College. I hope that O'Brien is able to to get alumni backing and understand their frustrations through this ordeal. Winning is one way to do it.
Those comments by LeVar Arrington and others are incredibly dumb. Child rape and the cover up of the crime are okay, but hiring someone from outside of Penn State is a travesty? Now you're done with the place and putting all your awards away? I think this is a good hire exactly for that reason, O'Brien has nothing to do with Penn State, he is in no way connected to them and what happened there. That's what they needed.
The thing that concerns me about O'Brien is the lack of head coaching experience. That he won't be able to focus on Penn State until the Pats are out of the playoffs is also a drawback.
Absolutely ****ing awful hire... yet something I predicted two months ago. I have been dead-on in my predictions of every misstep by this University since H-Hour of this scandal.
Umm the boards don't auto beep out that word anymore. Edit?
There is no way they hire anyone who has been associated with Penn State in anyway since Paterno has been Head Coach. No matter what comes out, there would always be the question of what they knew or didn't know. What they helped cover up. What part in the culture of acceptance of Child Rape they played or didn't play. To give other Coaches in the country the ability to bring that up to a recruit and their parents? No, you can't do that. And what truly established, big name coach is going to step into this situation?
Nope, this a good hire for them. There's a chance that he might be a good coach, and if he is, its all gravy for Penn State. And if he's not, it gives them a couple years to get some distance from the horror of everything Sandusky did, and maybe then they can bring in someone a bit more high profile.
I'm still going back and forth on this. I completely understand the desire for a clean break. You don't want want anyone with skeletons in their closet related to the scandal as your head coach. If Greg Schiano, for example, had been doing a better job at Rutgers, I think that he would have been a legitimate candidate. He knows the great things about Penn State football - the graduation rates, etc - but is far enough removed from working there that he wouldn't have any lingering questions. He's been at Rutgers since 2001.
Definitely agree with the second part of that. He's got to build a great staff around him.
Both Joepa and O'Brien both graduated from Brown University. But other than that there is nothing which is needed. Like Darth McClain said you don't want someone associated with the university with something they hid in the past related to this that might come out in the future.
Why do people assume that Penn State fans are angry because it wasn't an inside-the-family hire? It has nothing to do with that for most people. It has everything to do with the fact that O'Brien was a total failure on the college level as an assistant coach. He has no head coaching experience. He does nothing for the Pats and the Pats are happy to see him go. Tom Brady is the offensive coordinator for the Pats, not O'Brien.
Penn State is not where you cut your teeth as a head coach in the 21st Century. Penn State is a place where you come after you've proven yourself at a lower level. O'Brien has done nothing of the sort.
This was an awful hire by a immensely arrogant and stupid man in Dave Joyner. Bill O'Brien has absolutely no business being anywhere near a major college program as a coach of any sort, let alone a head coach. He will be a total failure here, and the University will suffer greatly for it.
O'Brien better come to the presser tomorrow morning and recant his earlier talk of staying with the Pats through the end of the post-season. He has already made the mistake of being an arrogant jerk and having his agent leak the information that he was hired, and he is being a total jerk by saying he won't start until the Pats' season is done. Penn State needs a coach NOW. Not in two or three or five weeks. NOW. He needs to start building a staff and get his butt to work. And there's no fix for his comments that an NFL HC position is his dream job. He doesn't care about helping Penn State do anything except making him look good enough to be hired by an NFL team as an HC.
I think you are way wrong when it comes to O'Brien staying with the Pats. It shows he is committed to stay and see things through with the team. That's a statement in itself. He is saying he isn't a quitter and I would not be surprised if the university didn't have anything to do with that. This years recruiting class is a wash regardless. His top appointed staff will see to any lingering commitments before signing day happens should the Pats play in the super bowl. In my opinion he is doing the right thing.
In regards to your comments on Penn State not being a job where you cut your teeth....it is now. This year changed the whole ball game. It's not quite SMU death penalty territory but it is really close.
No, I think the University lost its leverage when a Plan A deal(s) fell through and they had to scramble for someone like O'Brien. It's pretty clear that O'Brien was not on the original list of candidates. When we were scrambling so late in the game for a coach, we lost the ability, perhaps, to demand that a coach starts right away. I believe that O'Brien is contractually obligated to finish the season with the Pats, but contracts are modified all the time. Penn State has been without a contractually-held head coach for two months Monday. We cannot wait another 1-5 weeks for the head coach to show up. He can do some things remotely while he works with the Pats, but this is a critical time. Calling this class a wash is also incorrect. This class is salvageable. Even more importantly, Penn State's dark years at the start of the last decade were in large part because of failures in recruiting. No class is really "expendable."
O'Brien's talk of loyalty to the Pats during his presser today is all well and good, but Penn State is in a very bad spot right now. We need a head coach in the picture, not working for someone else. I am not necessarily angry with O'Brien, but I am furious with the search committee (who I and many others think did an absolutely abominable job) for not making that a clear requirement.
Basically, O'Brien is saying to keep his office warm for 1-5 weeks while he works for someone else. You cannot serve two masters, in my opinion. You either work for Penn State or you work for the Patriots.
And the Penn State job should be even LESS of a cut-your-teeth job because of the scandal. We need someone who isn't learning on the job but rather has the kind of experience needed to come in and be an immediate calming presence. Having the new head coach have to learn how to be a college HC (which is so incredibly different from being an NFL assistant coach it's not even funny) at an elite institution like Penn State is really not what we need right now.\
O'Brien did gain some favor with me today by retaining our (arguably) most important position coach. Larry Johnson is a damn good recruiter. He needs to devote as much time as is necessary to get Noah Spence back from Ohio State. Spence (the #1 defensive end in the country and from Harrisburg, PA) was all but packaged and sealed to PSU before the scandal broke. All of the sudden, out of nowhere, he commits to OSU, buying the crap Meyer is shoveling. Johnson has an excellent relationship with the Spences. Johnson has to do whatever he can do (legally) to get Spence back. We desperately need defensive ends. Our DE play for the last two seasons has been very bad.
I think the problem is Penn State, from a football perspective, is not an elite insitution right now. It's going to take a few years to get past the scandal, and when that happens you'll be in one of two situations:
1) O'Brien succeeds and has built some nice pieces of his own at Penn State and has the program on track to be bac kto where it should be.
2) O'Brien has failed on the football field, but has reshaped the image of the program to be about character and class, and the scnadal is simply a dark time in the past and not a defining moment. At that time, Penn State will be THE desired location for an up-and-coming college coach (who wants to be the one who brings Penn State Football back).
Either way, Penn State is in great shape in 2-3 years.
Believe me, as the Buckeyes proved this year, someone without head coaching experience is going to struggle mightlily at a major college program. What got us through this eyar was the knowledge that we could get small victories (Bowl Eligible, Beat Wisky, and had we beaten Florida or Michigan). It also helped that we knew our program would attract a white knight soon. The same will happen at Penn State. You'll find the small victories, and you'll eventually have a white knight. It's just gonna take longer than it did at OSU, because the crime is that much worse.
When I say "elite," I mean more in terms of historical importance. A place like Penn State should attract more attention than, say, a place like Kansas State. KSU had a much better season than we did, but in a long-term view, PSU is far, far higher up the CFB food-chain than KSU. We're a top-10 all-time winningest program. In the near term? Definitely not elite. In fact, barely average. But that can change with, as you say, the right coaching hire.
It would be pretty hard for O'Brien to build our program into a more character-and-class institution than it was heading into this scandal. The program has taken big hits because the public is unable to differentiate between different parts of the University (and the media insisted on focusing on one of the least culpable parties simply because that party's name was 100x more recognizable than any other name involved). Plus, from what I hear about O'Brien, he lets his temper get the better of him often (and not just the Brady blow-up a couple months ago).
For Penn Staters, at least, we know that our program is still about character and class despite the scandal. People outside the Penn State community have done an excellent job ignoring our stellar graduation rates, number of Academic All-Americans, the contributions of our former players to their own communities, etc. A south Florida TV station interviewed one of our former players about a month or so ago about Joe's legacy. The newscaster did everything he could to force the player to say that Joe was a terrible person, but the player didn't bite, thankfully. He said the correct things; Joe's former players, the boys he turned into stand-up men, are his legacy. Too bad no one will ever listen.
As for the comparison to OSU... I don't agree. As much as I say Penn State deserves a great coach like Meyer, we will never get one simply because we won't hire one. The administration here is too interested in just filling the stadium; it doesn't actually care about winning. We won't do what is necessary to hire someone who will take us to a national championship, or compete frequently enough for conference titles that we're as relevant to the present as we are to CFB history in general. OSU will do whatever it takes, however, and they have.
Joe Paterno has reportedly been taken off his respirator, family members have been called, and he is near death.
I've just been reading some news reports via Twitter about that. Puts a damper on my day. He was a flawed man who did a lot of good things for a lot of people, despite all the negative things that have come out in the past few months.
Very well said. I agree completely.
Just saw a report that he had passed.
Edit - Err..maybe not?
ESPN is simply reporting that he's in serious condition.
Honestly? It sadly doesn't surprise me that he's taken a turn for the worse. His diagnosis, and firing came in such a short span of time, combined with people just piling on him (I'm just saying he was right in not calling the police ASAP, not by any means, but he just got absolutely hammered by the press once the weight and depth of the allegations truly came to light.). Having something that means a lot to a person can definitely have a negative impact on a person's health and based on everything that's come out, that seems to be the case with Paterno. I've seen it too many times in my profession in that I wouldn't be shocked if Paterno passes sooner rather than later.