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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Arena Abuse Scandals in Sports

Discussion in 'Community' started by Darth McClain, Nov 9, 2011.

  1. DarthIntegral

    DarthIntegral JCC Baseball Draft/SWC Draft Commish star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP - Game Host

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    Jul 13, 2005
    Come on, no amount of money can make the victims/families whole.
     
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  2. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

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    Nov 28, 2000
    No, but in lieu of having a time machine that erases what happens to those kids, money damages are the only way our legal system is equipped to compensate people. Do you propose an alternative, or are you suggesting that damages never be paid for any injury that isn't monetary? Because otherwise I'm not sure what your point is.

    (edit: And yeah, also Lee has a good point about punitives.)
     
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  3. Aytee-Aytee

    Aytee-Aytee Jedi Master star 5

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    Jul 20, 2008
    It's not about healing. It's about punishing Penn State for the coverup.
     
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  4. DarthIntegral

    DarthIntegral JCC Baseball Draft/SWC Draft Commish star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP - Game Host

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    Jul 13, 2005
    No, my point is there's not a lot of point to saying xxx is not enough money in the settlement. If you're holding out for enough money to be in the settlement, you will be waiting forever. Forever. You'll never get there.

    That type of statement is an easy criticism that is a bit empty to me. I'm a big fan of not letting perfect get in the way of better.

    There's also something to be said for allowing victims to turn the page. A settlement, from what I've been told by others in similar cases, helps bring that closure.
     
  5. Aytee-Aytee

    Aytee-Aytee Jedi Master star 5

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    Jul 20, 2008
    Ah. Gotcha.
     
  6. Juliet316

    Juliet316 39x Hangman Winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner

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    Apr 27, 2005
    No money can make the families whole (and Sandusky's likely going to be spending the remainder of his life in prison, so there likely won't be new trials on the rest of the abuse claims that have popped up since the original ten that Sandusky was charged with), but as you (DarthIntegral) said, in a lot of ways, it's about a sense of closure on this whole mess for a lot of the victims (and in a way @Aytee-Aytee's point about punishing Penn State for covering it up all these years).
     
  7. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

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    Nov 28, 2000
    Ah, I see what you mean, Inty. Yeah, if they settled then obviously they felt that either the money was sufficient or (most likely) was the best they were going to get and wanted to move on. Having everything discussed graphically in a trial is probably the last thing the victims and their families want.
     
  8. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

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    Aug 16, 2002
    As a general rule, my problem with settlements (usually when a very rich institution/person is the defendant) is the NDA's that usually come with them and if, say, someone is suing a natural gas company for poisoning their groundwater, there's no trial to establish this fact legally. Often settlements involve the defendant admitting to nothing. That said, my objections don't seem to apply in this case.
     
  9. Juliet316

    Juliet316 39x Hangman Winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner

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    Apr 27, 2005
    Yeah, given everything that's come out in this case an NDA would be just about pointless at this point. It would be akin to closing the barn door after all the horses have gotten out, so to speak.
     
  10. Juliet316

    Juliet316 39x Hangman Winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner

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    Apr 27, 2005
  11. DantheJedi

    DantheJedi Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 23, 2009
    If these newest allegations are true, I'm of the mindset Penn State should be nuked from orbit.

    (It's the only way to be sure.)
     
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  12. Juliet316

    Juliet316 39x Hangman Winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner

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    Apr 27, 2005
  13. Darth Basin

    Darth Basin Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 15, 2015


    I do feel Penn State Football got off easy.
     
  14. Juliet316

    Juliet316 39x Hangman Winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner

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    Apr 27, 2005

    We'll have to come back and reassess it, if Baylor gets anything from the NCAA for it's rape and cover-up scandal.
     
  15. Darth Basin

    Darth Basin Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 15, 2015
    Ah yes. Many say Baylor is a canadate for the Death . Penalty. How many years i wonder.
     
  16. Juliet316

    Juliet316 39x Hangman Winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner

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    Given the scope of this compared to Penn State, it definitely should have a far more significant punishment, if not the death penalty, if the NCAA actually decides it wants to get involved in this.
     
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  17. DarthIntegral

    DarthIntegral JCC Baseball Draft/SWC Draft Commish star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP - Game Host

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    Jul 13, 2005
    Be careful drawing too many parallels between Baylor and Penn State. They are not actually all that similar, from an NCAA-Compliance standpoint. Baylor is actually much worse, from that point of view, believe it or not.
     
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  18. heels1785

    heels1785 Skywalker Saga + JCC Manager / Finally Won A Draft star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 10, 2003
    Updating this thread title so that discussion of Nassar, Michigan State, and USAG can be held here.

    Yesterday, USAG cut ties with the Karolyi Ranch, long rumored to be a horrific place in which young athletes were abused physically and mentally.

    Aly Raisman is currently testifying at the sentencing of Nassar (already sentenced to 60 years on prior child pornography charges) - she is taking USAG to task, as well, for sheltering him and creating a culture that placed winning above the health of these girls. In some cases, their negligence and encouraging denial of Nassar's actions led to victims and/or family members taking their own life.

    I think USA Gymnastics needs to be shut down, reformed, and rebuilt with new personnel. If an Olympics or two (or ten) is missed, so be it. There has to be accountability for the organization, and in many cases, the people, who allowed this to take place.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018
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  19. Juliet316

    Juliet316 39x Hangman Winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner

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    Yeah, I've been wondering if perhaps the US Gymnastics needs to be barred from 2020 to send a message about this. I mean I feel sick for the athletes that have already spoken out and would feel even worse for those who are training for 2020, like Simone Biles to have to miss those games as a result, but, you're right heels, there needs to be reform within USA Gymnastics and that cannot happen if the machine that breed this horror is still going for 2020. A message needs to be sent and if Team USA (at least as far as Gymnastics) is absent for an Olympics and isn't the dominate force for a decade or two, then so be it.
     
  20. DarthIntegral

    DarthIntegral JCC Baseball Draft/SWC Draft Commish star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP - Game Host

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    Jul 13, 2005
    Beyond that, I wonder if this is the tip of an iceberg, similar to what we've seen in Hollywood.

    Edit: And if you shut down USA Gymnastics, you let those athletes complete under the Olympic Flag and attempt to qualify. no reason to punish them.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018
  21. heels1785

    heels1785 Skywalker Saga + JCC Manager / Finally Won A Draft star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 10, 2003
    I think it may be, Inty - perhaps not all sexual abuse, but the physical and psychological abuse these girls suffered at the hands of Bela and Marta Karolyi and their stooges.

    It was a poorly kept secret, but always seemed to be airbrushed by success and/or shut down by a vitriolic response through the media, usually by Bela.

    John Barr authored a damning report two years ago, worth a read:
    http://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/...al-team-gymnast-alleges-abuse-doctor-karolyis

    Dominique Moceanu's memoir also shined a harsh light on the Karolyis - an excerpt here:
    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012...nu-bela-karolyi-marta-olympics_n_1707937.html
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018
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  22. yankee8255

    yankee8255 Force Ghost star 6

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    May 31, 2005
    I read about Maroney's testimony this morning. To force a gag order on her on top of everything else is beyond belief. I don't think US Gymnastics should be banned from the Olympics, though. That would punish the athletes more than anyone. But a major house cleaning needs to happen on the coaching and administrative side.
     
  23. Juliet316

    Juliet316 39x Hangman Winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner

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    Apr 27, 2005
    They walked the fine threat back when people began tweeting saying they'd be willing to pay the fine for Kayla.
     
  24. heels1785

    heels1785 Skywalker Saga + JCC Manager / Finally Won A Draft star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 10, 2003
    If a house cleaning means that every person at USAG who directly or indirectly attempted to shame and/or silence these athletes being fired and publicly admonished, I'm for it. And anyone who operated with any knowledge about Nassar and either stood be punished as severely as possible, up to prosecution and imprisonment. That likely includes Bela and Marta Karolyi.

    I understand that the current generation of athletes should not be punished, as much as Bill O'Brien's Penn State teams did not deserve it. And I understand that, in that case, the option to transfer was made available - not so much here. However, an independent third party (i.e. probably government) needs to review every square inch of USAG, and only after the embarrassment of scrutiny results in a culture change should they be allowed to continue operations. They have established that they are not capable of providing safe oversight for young girls, an immovable disqualifier.

    I think what Inty said, allowing our gymnasts to compete under the Olympic flag - would be both fair for them and humiliating for USAG (a positive byproduct).
     
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  25. Juliet316

    Juliet316 39x Hangman Winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner

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    Apr 27, 2005
    And let's not forget Michigan State in all this. There need to be consequences for those involved in covering up for Nassar there too.