Saga People Who Accepted the 6-Film Tragedy Of Darth Vader Saga - What Do You Make Of This?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn, Oct 31, 2012.

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  1. Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn The Other Saga Moderator

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    Member Since:
    Sep 23, 1999
    star 6
    Since the prequels came out there have been discussions of the films in relation to Lucas's claims (up until a few days ago) that he had planned the whole thing in advance in lots of detail, that there "never was any more story" and that there couldn't ever be any more, and that the six-film saga was always about "The Tragedy of Darth Vader."

    While it was never true that the saga had always been set up like that (quotes, notes, and scripts from the OT era make that clear), Lucas did indeed use the prequel films to recenter the focus on that stated point: Anakin's life and death, fall and redemption. So while the saga hadn't always been like that, it was (and to this point in time, is) like that.

    But now they're making new films. One could say that it's just a cash-in, and to some extent I'm sure it is (so was Empire, for example). However, they're saying that these new films will be based on Lucas-produced ideas and treatments. Regardless of whether these are the circa-1979 notes (which would inevitably have to be majorly modified) or something entirely new, the point is that evidently the saga is not complete.And given that Darth Vader is dead, the new films will almost certainly have to redefine what the saga is now "about."

    What is your reaction to this?
  2. ezekiel22x Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2002
    star 4
    I'm satisfied with the six film saga regardless of more material or whatever Lucas has said about his plans over the years. Of course I'm curious about the new trilogy, but honestly I'm more curious to see where the Prometheus story is going. Probably even Avatar as well despite that I merely enjoyed that film as opposed to really loving it.
  3. oierem Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2009
    star 3
    There are no treatments written by Lucas, that is clear - they even contradict themselves by saying that they're working to figure out what the new stories are going to be.
    For me the Saga is perfectly finished, and no matter what they do, these new movies (which I don't really care about) won't be part of it. They won't (just can't) be part of the story that begins in episode I and ends in episode VI. And they won't have the unique touch of George Lucas, nor the wonderful music of John Williams.
    It's more EU stuff for me. Nothing more. Nothing less.
  4. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    How do we know they won't have the John Williams music? Or at least, derivatives of it?
  5. oierem Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2009
    star 3
    Williams is will be over 80 and is not interested in working anything like that. He only scores Spielberg films nowadays.
    And forgive me, but "derivatives of it" is just not John Williams.
  6. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Maybe Disney will hire Spielberg? Perhaps a little optimistic- but cashing in on as much of the nostalgia as possible seems like good business sense in this case.
  7. rezpen Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2010
    star 4
    I really hope that since he said in the past the sequels revolve around "moral" and "philosophical" problems the next films tie into Mortis in some way and the next Chosen One needed to keep the force in balance since Anakin is dead now. Expanding the story in that direction will let them move on from the Skywalkers into the larger questions about good & evil.
  8. Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn The Other Saga Moderator

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    It's off topic but I'll make one score-related comment - I don't think I want to hear something clearly different than Williams for numbered SW films. (By which I mean, someone with a different and very recognizable style - Giacchino, Zimmer, etc). If they can write it so it sounds like Williams, then that's more acceptable. An example of faux-SW sountrack I like a lot is the Shadows of the Empire soundtrack. It's not quite Williams, but something like that could work.

    Though it's possible Williams might be amenable to writing the scores himself (he did do the latest Indiana Jones), or doing a Harry Potter-type deal (Williams writes themes, and they are used and orchestrated by someone else).
  9. CoolyFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2003
    star 4
    The Saga is the holy grail, everything else is for the new generation. The new movies should be in the universe but NEVER connected to the 6. Let the 6 films unite & not dilute them with anymore.
    Jarren_Lee-Saber and oierem like this.
  10. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I'm done with Star Wars movies. I might consider paying for a film version of Tatooine Ghost, but otherwise I have no interest in sequels and even less interest in more exploration of Mortis and the Chosen One prophecy, neither of which I liked to begin with.
  11. CoolyFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2003
    star 4
    Batman had many themes, Spider Man had many themes, The new next gen movies need to have their own them & new composer. Give some new talent a try & make a new adventure with new characters
  12. venepe Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2004
    star 1
    Well, the Official site is apparently marketing Episodes 1-6 as The Skywalker Saga. If so, then I don't have a problem with the New Movies as long as they are part of a New Saga and not a direct sequel. The new saga should start with its own Episode I to keep up the same theme. That way each Saga is its own legend in a galaxy far far away.
    Saurion-Fett likes this.
  13. Saurion-Fett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 2001
    star 4

    Skywalker saga....perfect thats how I see it for these next movies
  14. oierem Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2009
    star 3
    Nope, it's just not possible that Williams would write the scores (unless Spielberg directs Star Wars!)
    And that "Harry Potter-type deal" doesn't exist. New composers would just use Williams' main theme, but Williams wasn't involved at all writing new themes.
  15. Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn The Other Saga Moderator

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    Member Since:
    Sep 23, 1999
    star 6
    Why is it impossible? Has he said so?

    And... so the HP thing would be like using themes from the extant films, with new ones, in new scores. That seems totally possible to me.
  16. oierem Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2009
    star 3
    Yes, they can use existing themes... but there wouldn't be any new themes by Williams.

    It is impossible for several reasons: Williams has been semi-retired for several years now (since 2005 as a matter of fact). He's focused on concert works, and only scores movies for Spielberg, because of their friendship and mutual respect for each others' work. Officially, he says he'd be willing to work with someone else should the project be interesting enough, but that's highly unlikely... and in any case, more Star Wars (specially without Lucas) doesn't appeal to Williams.

    Secondly, you have to consider how Williams works. Nowadays, composers are expected to work with computers and deliver mock-ups and synthesized versions of the score way before they record it. Williams writes in pencil and paper, and you can't hear the music (unless he plays to the director on the piano) until the day he records it.

    And of course, he'd be over 80.
  17. Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn The Other Saga Moderator

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    You make a fair case, but that doesn't mean it's impossible, just that it seems unlikely. Though I'm sure Williams was not a fan of how his scores were chopped up for the prequels, I was under the impression that he and Lucas were friends as well. That might count for something.
  18. oierem Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2009
    star 3
    But Lucas isn't really involved in this project. He would probably be willing to work with Lucas again... but these aren't going to be his movies.

    I just wanted to add... the way Williams works also creates a series of difficulties for the production. He needs more time to write. He needs to have a locked film much earlier. And at this age, he isn't willing to commit to a deadline.

    So IMO, as someone who knows something about the man, it IS impossible that he will write the score.
    Last edited by oierem, Oct 31, 2012
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  19. CoolyFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2003
    star 4
  20. WIERD_GREEN_MAN Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2010
    star 4
    I am satisfied with the 6-film saga. So was George Lucas.
    To Lucas, Star Wars is the story of Anakin Skywalker. Perhaps, in selling his company and allowing a new film to be made, a departure will be made from the story of Anakin Skywalker. Maybe it won't even deal with it much.
    Samnz likes this.
  21. WIERD_GREEN_MAN Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2010
    star 4
    What about Hans Zimmer for the scores?
  22. StampidHD280pro Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2005
    star 4
    The Shadows of the Empire soundtrack was a bad imitation of Williams scores. The Clone Wars Kevin Kiner scores are a better example. Derivative of older and newer Star Wars themes mixed with strong new themes.

    Oh, and as for the actual topic, the old Flash Gordon serials lasted about 12-13 episodes per story arc. Episode VI is clearly the end of one story arc, so another 6 episodes would fit the blueprint quite well.
    Now, because they're being billed as Star Wars, they'll have to have some of the same music and literary themes. I fully expect episode 7 to be like a new episode 1 or 4, with a new protagonist about to leave his/her previous life, probably leaving their home planet to become a Jedi. However, I would be happy to be surprised. Like I said, the 1-6 saga is complete, so new directions wouldn't be all so bad.
    WIERD_GREEN_MAN likes this.
  23. Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn The Other Saga Moderator

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    I was mainly wondering about those whose enjoyment of the saga is tied up in it being six episodes about Darth Vader. Of course multiple story arcs *could* work (it hearkens back to the 12-film plan from 1978, and of course to the more defined Trilogy of Trilogies concepts from 1979ish), but it's been claimed so many times - both by Lucas and by some fans - that there never were any sequels, there never would be any sequels, and there could never be any ("what would they be about, anyway?"). I'm interested in the reactions of those people.

    Also, I don't mean to be antagonistic, but in the past I have seen people become incensed when "old time" fans describe things they didn't like about changes to the films or the themes running through the films (as made in the special editions, PT, Blu-Ray versions, Clone Wars tv series, etc). As the saga was turned from a generally open space opera to a trilogy of trilogies to The Tragedy of Darth Vader, there were fans of each incarnation who felt left behind when the franchise mutated. Now the fans who argued that the previous versions of the story were superseded and so should be discarded are put in the same shoes as those to whom they said that.
    Last edited by Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn, Oct 31, 2012
  24. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    I have news for folks here who see the saga as films 1-6...........that will change once Episode 7 hits, forever.

    So it will be standard rules here come the time of that film's release to regard the saga as seven plus films.

    It will no longer be "The Tragedy of Darth Vader" and some such. You will have to accept that.
    TOSCHESTATION and Heero_Yuy like this.
  25. WIERD_GREEN_MAN Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2010
    star 4
    I think the Clone Wars theme is so great. However, if there is a very different story, there should be a very different score, as opposed to yet another variation on the same themes.
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