CT Performance in Jabba's Palace: Was it needed?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Twi'lekPrince, Mar 27, 2013.

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Do you think that the performance in Jabba's Palace was necessary, or unecessary?

Poll closed Apr 3, 2013.
Necessary 10 vote(s) 40.0%
Unecessary 15 vote(s) 60.0%
Moderators: Darth_Nub, MOC Yak Face
  1. lbr789 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2013
    star 1
    Frankly, much as I love RotJ, I don't think either version was needed.
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  2. Grievousdude Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2013
    star 3
    It's necessary because it introduces the Rancor.
    Jcuk likes this.
  3. topgoalscorer_no11 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 23, 2001
    star 3
    I think it's great.

    Similarly to Lucas, Scorsese often includes some kind of live performance in his movies - the street drummer in Taxi Driver, the Stand up comic in Goodfellas.

    It gives you a sense of time and place, an insight into the character of both performers and audience - the PT lacks a similar scene, which is why I was so disappointed when it turned out that Nsync would not be singing in Attack of the Clones.
  4. Bobatron Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 3
    The closest thing to this live performance in the Prequels is the Gungan parade, or maybe the opera in RotS.
    The old videotape From Star Wars to Jedi has "Lapti Nek" being performed in English. "I'm shaping up and workin' out!"
    Another thing I like about the "Lapti Nek" scene is that it doesn't purposely stand out. The scene starts in the middle of the song and includes the introduction of the trap floor to the Rancor, setting that up for later. There is stuff going on here instead of just sticking a video in the middle of it all.
    Last edited by Bobatron, Apr 12, 2013
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  5. Vthuil Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2013
    star 4
    That's a good point, actually.
  6. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4
    [face_laugh]

    That aside, great point about Scorsese's inclusion of live performances giving that sense of time & place - really immersing the audience in the world they're being shown. Walk down the street in the real world and you hear music - from car radios, from shops, wherever.
    All of GL's peers did the same thing (Scorsese, Friedkin, Coppola, De Palma, Polanski et al), but obviously it was always going to be a bit more difficult with a series of sci-fi films. Even so, years later the score in the Coruscant chase in AOTC actually seemed to be trying to convey that city feel by using an electric guitar.

    Apart from the atrocious SE changes, the only reason the inclusion of the musical number in ROTJ is even being debated is because it was a bit naff in both the original & SE versions. No one seems to have a problem with the cantina band in SW/ANH, and it served exactly the same purpose.
    Last edited by Darth_Nub, Apr 13, 2013
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  7. topgoalscorer_no11 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 23, 2001
    star 3
    I suppose the difference is that the Cantina band play bold, brilliant Space Jazz, whilst the Max Rebo band don't seem to be quite as good.

    They have a nice line in ethnically tinged (perhaps reflecting the tribal rhythms of the tusken raiders) background/elevator music to keep the atmosphere going on the sail barge - it's danceable, and if you were lightly wandering the Jundland Wastes and you heard that tune wafting over the dunes, you'd think: that's a party I'd like to join.

    But Jedi Rocks is not a great song. On the other hand, one questions how much control Lucas has over these things. I tend to think it's not really his fault that the Max Rebo band aren't as good as Figrin D'an and the Modal Nodes. The Max Rebo band just happened to be the band in residence on the day. Blame Jabba for hiring them, or more likely Bib Fortuna, as picking the entertainment probably tended to fall under his purview. The fact is we just don't know...
  8. BarkingFrog Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 4, 2009
    star 2
    The original is so much better and I'm surprised so many people seem to prefer Jedi Rocks. The first fit the atmosphere of Jabba's Palace so well, whereas Jedi Rocks was just out of place.

    That said, I'm not against the idea of replacing the puppets with CGI. They just went overboard. Something like this might have been preferable, keeping the old song with new creatures:

  9. Aaronaman Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2013
    star 4
    I don't mind it to much but preferred the original version just because it's shorter haha
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  10. ezekiel22x Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2002
    star 4
    I guess not. But I really didn't need a space cowboy either. When a narrative plays the genre mash-up game, mileages will always vary in terms of what is "needed."
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  11. jaqen Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2004
    star 4
    I think the performance is a wonderful element to my favorite Star Wars sequence. It's very Star Wars in that each of those films offer moments off the main path to establish the world(s) around us. There are quite a few "unnecessary" moments in the Star Wars saga that none the less give it so much flavor, and identity.

    On the actual songs? I'm one of those rare few who enjoys both Lapti Nek and Jedi Rocks. They're both cheesy, good fun. Lapti Nek sounds extraordinarily dated now though.

    On the effects? The Sy Snootles puppet looked awful to me, even as a kid. As someone who highly prized the effects work in the original films, and still do to this day, it's one of the few times during the original trilogy where I was completely pulled out of the believability of the universe. It was made worse by the fact that Jabba looks SO DAMN GOOD. I'm not surprised they changed her. And yet the CGI Sy Snootles isn't much of an improvement, if one at all. One of the biggest problems with the new effects in the Jabba scene are that they're far too pristine. The art direction and design work done for that material captured the smokey, seedy quality of a den of inequity perfectly. The new effects aren't seemless at all. It's one of the few changes I'd like to see MORE work done on.
    Paul_Klein and Jarren_Lee-Saber like this.
  12. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    If the creator thinks it's needed, it's needed.
    What do I think? I think it's fun!





    - We don't need that scum.
    - But mom, I love it!

    /LM
  13. Blur Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 1999
    star 4
    Agreed. As I mentioned in the Lapti Nek thread, IMHO the original version was stellar. However, the 1997 CGI version stands out like a sore thumb in the film, and IMHO partially ruins the whole Jabba's palace vibe/tone.
    Last edited by Blur, Sep 6, 2013
    kubricklynch likes this.
  14. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 6
  15. MOC Yak Face Moderator, Classic Trilogy

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2004
    star 4
    Unnecessary is a very polite way of describing this scene. It was bad to begin with and when CGI got involved, it went to worse!
  16. TX-20 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 21, 2013
    star 3
    Needs some twerking.
  17. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    That'll be in the Super Duper Special Edition.
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  18. Sith-Mullet Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2003
    star 3
    The original Max Rebo band was awesome. Why the scene was messed with is still a good question to ask George Lucas.
  19. miasma Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2013
    star 1
    Probably because the puppets looked bad, even by 1980's standards. So I have no problem with him using CGI to fix up the look of the scene, but then they went a bit overboard with the extreme close-ups and whatnot.

    But regardless of whether we're talking about the original version or the "special" version, I think the entire Jabba's palace sequence went on too long, and the song & dance is something that could have been cut. Yes, I know it introduced the trapdoor that would later get Luke, but did it need to? I don't know. I think if Luke fell into the pit without the film giving any advance warning to the audience, it would have worked just as well.

    I have to agree with what someone else said in this thread-- I think at least part of the point of including the song was to recapture the fun of the cantina band from ANH, which had become so popular.
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  20. gezvader28 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2003
    star 4
    LOL!

    actually SySnootles looks like she's done a bit too much twerking!
  21. Grand_Moff_Jawa Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2001
    star 5
    The original was fine. Jedi Rocks is embarrassingly bad.
  22. EHT New Films Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2007
    star 6
  23. Jarren_Lee-Saber Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2008
    star 4
    Original song (Lapti Nek) is better than the new song (Jedi Rocks)
    Original video is WAY worse than the new SE video!! CGI over puppets any day, everyday.

    Needed? Nothing is needed in art, its up to the creator.
    My opinion? I dislike the ENTIRE Jabba sequence, from opening to ship explosion.
    Last edited by Jarren_Lee-Saber, Sep 26, 2013
  24. Vthuil Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2013
    star 4
    Of course, it's pretty bad CGI.
  25. Jarren_Lee-Saber Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2008
    star 4
    This is true. Still better than the puppets though.
Moderators: Darth_Nub, MOC Yak Face