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CT Performance in Jabba's Palace: Was it needed?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Twi'lekPrince, Mar 27, 2013.

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Do you think that the performance in Jabba's Palace was necessary, or unecessary?

  1. Necessary

    38.9%
  2. Unecessary

    61.1%
  1. lbr789

    lbr789 Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2013
    Frankly, much as I love RotJ, I don't think either version was needed.
     
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  2. Grievousdude

    Grievousdude Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2013
    It's necessary because it introduces the Rancor.
     
    Jcuk likes this.
  3. topgoalscorer_no11

    topgoalscorer_no11 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 23, 2001
    I think it's great.

    Similarly to Lucas, Scorsese often includes some kind of live performance in his movies - the street drummer in Taxi Driver, the Stand up comic in Goodfellas.

    It gives you a sense of time and place, an insight into the character of both performers and audience - the PT lacks a similar scene, which is why I was so disappointed when it turned out that Nsync would not be singing in Attack of the Clones.
     
    Andy Wylde likes this.
  4. Bobatron

    Bobatron Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    The closest thing to this live performance in the Prequels is the Gungan parade, or maybe the opera in RotS.
    The old videotape From Star Wars to Jedi has "Lapti Nek" being performed in English. "I'm shaping up and workin' out!"
    Another thing I like about the "Lapti Nek" scene is that it doesn't purposely stand out. The scene starts in the middle of the song and includes the introduction of the trap floor to the Rancor, setting that up for later. There is stuff going on here instead of just sticking a video in the middle of it all.
     
    Captain Tom Coughlin likes this.
  5. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2013
    That's a good point, actually.
     
    ScutFarkus likes this.
  6. Darth_Nub

    Darth_Nub Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2009
    [face_laugh]

    That aside, great point about Scorsese's inclusion of live performances giving that sense of time & place - really immersing the audience in the world they're being shown. Walk down the street in the real world and you hear music - from car radios, from shops, wherever.
    All of GL's peers did the same thing (Scorsese, Friedkin, Coppola, De Palma, Polanski et al), but obviously it was always going to be a bit more difficult with a series of sci-fi films. Even so, years later the score in the Coruscant chase in AOTC actually seemed to be trying to convey that city feel by using an electric guitar.

    Apart from the atrocious SE changes, the only reason the inclusion of the musical number in ROTJ is even being debated is because it was a bit naff in both the original & SE versions. No one seems to have a problem with the cantina band in SW/ANH, and it served exactly the same purpose.
     
    Vthuil, kainee and topgoalscorer_no11 like this.
  7. topgoalscorer_no11

    topgoalscorer_no11 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 23, 2001
    I suppose the difference is that the Cantina band play bold, brilliant Space Jazz, whilst the Max Rebo band don't seem to be quite as good.

    They have a nice line in ethnically tinged (perhaps reflecting the tribal rhythms of the tusken raiders) background/elevator music to keep the atmosphere going on the sail barge - it's danceable, and if you were lightly wandering the Jundland Wastes and you heard that tune wafting over the dunes, you'd think: that's a party I'd like to join.

    But Jedi Rocks is not a great song. On the other hand, one questions how much control Lucas has over these things. I tend to think it's not really his fault that the Max Rebo band aren't as good as Figrin D'an and the Modal Nodes. The Max Rebo band just happened to be the band in residence on the day. Blame Jabba for hiring them, or more likely Bib Fortuna, as picking the entertainment probably tended to fall under his purview. The fact is we just don't know...
     
  8. BarkingFrog

    BarkingFrog Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 4, 2009
    The original is so much better and I'm surprised so many people seem to prefer Jedi Rocks. The first fit the atmosphere of Jabba's Palace so well, whereas Jedi Rocks was just out of place.

    That said, I'm not against the idea of replacing the puppets with CGI. They just went overboard. Something like this might have been preferable, keeping the old song with new creatures:

     
  9. Aaronaman

    Aaronaman Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2013
    I don't mind it to much but preferred the original version just because it's shorter haha
     
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  10. ezekiel22x

    ezekiel22x Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2002
    I guess not. But I really didn't need a space cowboy either. When a narrative plays the genre mash-up game, mileages will always vary in terms of what is "needed."
     
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  11. jaqen

    jaqen Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 22, 2004
    I think the performance is a wonderful element to my favorite Star Wars sequence. It's very Star Wars in that each of those films offer moments off the main path to establish the world(s) around us. There are quite a few "unnecessary" moments in the Star Wars saga that none the less give it so much flavor, and identity.

    On the actual songs? I'm one of those rare few who enjoys both Lapti Nek and Jedi Rocks. They're both cheesy, good fun. Lapti Nek sounds extraordinarily dated now though.

    On the effects? The Sy Snootles puppet looked awful to me, even as a kid. As someone who highly prized the effects work in the original films, and still do to this day, it's one of the few times during the original trilogy where I was completely pulled out of the believability of the universe. It was made worse by the fact that Jabba looks SO DAMN GOOD. I'm not surprised they changed her. And yet the CGI Sy Snootles isn't much of an improvement, if one at all. One of the biggest problems with the new effects in the Jabba scene are that they're far too pristine. The art direction and design work done for that material captured the smokey, seedy quality of a den of inequity perfectly. The new effects aren't seemless at all. It's one of the few changes I'd like to see MORE work done on.
     
  12. Lars_Muul

    Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 2, 2000
    If the creator thinks it's needed, it's needed.
    What do I think? I think it's fun!





    - We don't need that scum.
    - But mom, I love it!

    /LM
     
    Andy Wylde likes this.
  13. Blur

    Blur Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 1999
    Agreed. As I mentioned in the Lapti Nek thread, IMHO the original version was stellar. However, the 1997 CGI version stands out like a sore thumb in the film, and IMHO partially ruins the whole Jabba's palace vibe/tone.
     
    ScutFarkus and kubricklynch like this.
  14. Deputy Rick Grimes

    Deputy Rick Grimes Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Maybe, maybe not
     
  15. MOC Vober Dand

    MOC Vober Dand Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 6, 2004
    Unnecessary is a very polite way of describing this scene. It was bad to begin with and when CGI got involved, it went to worse!
     
  16. TX-20

    TX-20 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 21, 2013
    Needs some twerking.
     
  17. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    That'll be in the Super Duper Special Edition.
     
    Jarren_Lee-Saber and TX-20 like this.
  18. Sith-Mullet

    Sith-Mullet Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 2, 2003
    The original Max Rebo band was awesome. Why the scene was messed with is still a good question to ask George Lucas.
     
    ScutFarkus likes this.
  19. miasma

    miasma Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2013
    Probably because the puppets looked bad, even by 1980's standards. So I have no problem with him using CGI to fix up the look of the scene, but then they went a bit overboard with the extreme close-ups and whatnot.

    But regardless of whether we're talking about the original version or the "special" version, I think the entire Jabba's palace sequence went on too long, and the song & dance is something that could have been cut. Yes, I know it introduced the trapdoor that would later get Luke, but did it need to? I don't know. I think if Luke fell into the pit without the film giving any advance warning to the audience, it would have worked just as well.

    I have to agree with what someone else said in this thread-- I think at least part of the point of including the song was to recapture the fun of the cantina band from ANH, which had become so popular.
     
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  20. gezvader28

    gezvader28 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2003
    LOL!

    actually SySnootles looks like she's done a bit too much twerking!
     
  21. Grand_Moff_Jawa

    Grand_Moff_Jawa Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 31, 2001
    The original was fine. Jedi Rocks is embarrassingly bad.
     
    ScutFarkus likes this.
  22. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2007
  23. Jarren_Lee-Saber

    Jarren_Lee-Saber Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 16, 2008
    Original song (Lapti Nek) is better than the new song (Jedi Rocks)
    Original video is WAY worse than the new SE video!! CGI over puppets any day, everyday.

    Needed? Nothing is needed in art, its up to the creator.
    My opinion? I dislike the ENTIRE Jabba sequence, from opening to ship explosion.
     
  24. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2013
    Of course, it's pretty bad CGI.
     
  25. Jarren_Lee-Saber

    Jarren_Lee-Saber Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 16, 2008
    This is true. Still better than the puppets though.