Full Series Petition of the 2000: Preserving the Integrity of the Star Wars Saga

Here's the thing about Kyle Newman and his movie... those characters are roughly the same age I was when TPM came out. They wouldn't likely have been Star Wars fanatics based strictly off the OT itself. Why? Because they were barely old enough to have seen ROTJ in theaters, let alone really collect the action figures or read the Marvel comic line. Most likely they would have come into their love of Star Wars via the Thrawn Trilogy, Dark Empire and the EU explosion that happened thereafter. They'd have been standing in line for TPM, in costume perhaps, but with issues of the latest Star Wars comics and novels in their tents! The new line of Kenner/Hasbro toys. There was none of that.

Stang, one of the guys in that movie runs a comic store. He'd have the Dark Horse stuff on hand, no doubt... but didn't. Doesn't sound like the guy was very in touch with that time period at all, IMO.

Also, I think it does damage the integrity of Star Wars as a whole to have GL license and approve a vast body of stories with the notion that "there are so many stories that I couldn't tell that could be told, my story is the movies here some others in the same universe" and then decided he's going to run rough shod over the lot of it on a whim. It harms his integrity as a businessman and as an artist. Here you've made this canvas, painted a portion of it and then given the go ahead to others to add to the portions you haven't painted... and you've taken great profit from it, let alone the artistic enrichment of others contributions. You've let it stand for 30 years, and then one day you decide you're going to paint over it all just because you can. "Oh, that's not what I would have done" *splort* "There. You, the guy that loved this part... well love what I've done now." That's not artistic integrity in the least bit.

 

Actually, in Fanboys, during the scene in the comic shop, you can see issues of Dark Empire along the back wall.

 

To be honest I find the fan complaining and labelling of George Lucas not only insulting to the franchise and the man who created it, but also insulting to the integrity of the fan base as a whole. These petitions and complaining about Lucas does an incredible disservice to the fan community as an entirety. While that label is typically restricted to those who continuously complain about the PT, I have been seeing it seep into this aspect of the community as of late. As such I find this whole ?The Fans verses George Lucas? insulting and utterly stupid. Star Wars fans should not be the type to complain about all of this stuff... he created this universe and when he wants to change parts of it ? and it conflicts with other EU concepts ? he is condemned.

Firstly, as I have said many times, I do think that Lucas and his staff need to be respectful of the EU as a larger vessel of continuity. In that I mean they should pay as much respect ? within reason ? as possible, including the preservation of concepts and characters integral to the EU as a whole (K?Kruhk, Quinlan Vos, etc). That is something I think has been consciously attempted at every turn by the team, attempting to keep the EU ?possible? within the universe, by leaving certain things ambiguous or as true to the EU as possible. This is to ensure not only the continued ?worth? of the EU (they need to prevent it degenerating into some type of ?waste of time?) but also that the EU fans don?t create a significant rift within continuity.

However with that said, I have no problem with George Lucas doing whatever he likes within this universe. All the while key concepts still exist I have no problem with Lucas doing what he likes with the universe. If we are going to say to George ?you can?t destroy any swath of the Expanded Universe? these stories are going to degenerate to the point where nothing can be done without Lucas ?destroying? some part of the EU. In my opinion the EU creates entire contradictions within itself and as such the EU has created this city unclean and covered in bits of rubble. I don?t only think it is Lucas? right to amend this, but I also think it is a great service to the community to ?clean up? the mess which the EU often creates. The key EU concepts will remain, however the rest of it will, and should, be removed and aligned by this new storyline which George has created. So, to summarize, I say allow Lucas his right to create this new continuity within ?The Clone Wars era? and ? with the team keeping the key EU concepts undamaged ? we can salvage what fits and what doesn?t in order to construct a new timeline.

I mean really? You guys wanted Greedo the Elder to be there? That concept is stupid in itself and, if anything, the series destroyed a terrible EU concept. You want the Mandalorians to be unrealistically always militarists without any change in political system? In my opinion The Clone Wars improved the integrity of the Mandalorian concept. Do you guys think they should have created another Jedi to be in place of Evan Piell? Honestly, I would rather film Jedi which we have seen and been compelled by rather than Jedi we have no connection to what-so-ever.

In my opinion you need to be optimistic about this. George is creating a great new ?definitive? timeline for this era. The majority of the EU will be salvageable and it can be placed upon the timeline as we see fit. However we should not attempt to save ever piece of every storyline. Allow some things to sink into the wreck and in its place we?ll have a great new, relatively un-convoluted storyline.

... until they actually significantly destroy something integral to the EU I find no issue with what the series is doing. Don?t alter the films and don?t kill off characters like K?Kruhk and I?m fine.

That?s ignorant. He is as m

 

Shamefully ignorant. Kyle Newman is on the ForceCast a lot and is a huge Star Wars fan. He's a huge SW collector and is married to Jaime King (aka voice of Aurra Sing).

 

While I agree with your sentiment, I suppose I should note in the interests of fairness that to some people, someone like Even Piell WAS as important as K'Kruhk (e.g., catalyst character in a major EU novel series). Just as what constitutes 'integrity' or 'hardcore' varies from fan to fan, so too does which characters are important to the EU and movies. I, for example, think Plo Koon is indispensable. Everyone else, of course, will think of me as a lunatic.

 

I understand and respect what you mean when you say there are different levels of what is ?integral? to the EU, but I guess what I meant was don?t dispose of characters which have overarching influence within the EU. By this I mean plots and characters which have an overarching influence across various aspects of the EU. So essentially not what a person thinks is important individually, but rather what is integral to the functioning of the EU.

Even Piell was generally confined to Coruscant Nights, and while I understand readers may be frustrated by this death, it was relatively insignificant in the wider spectrum of the EU. The same can be said for the Mandalorian culture for instance ? besides the fact a retcon is relatively feasible ? as it doesn?t affect the wider EU... yet.

If you consider a character like K?Kruhk you would essentially damage entire swathes of the Expanded Universe. If he was killed in such a way as Piell was (like if he fell into a pit of lava and was incinerated), Republic would be placed in doubt, Dark Times would be made irrelevant for large sections, and even Legacy would be damaged somewhat. The same could be said for Vergere, who if included and killed in The Clone Wars, would have repercussions throughout the entire EU. Even Piell and the Mandalorians... are minor in the wider scheme of things.

I do understand however how this could personally affect someone?s ?personal continuity?; however unfortunately I think George has the right to trample over the minor concepts in this instance.

But then people conveniently sidestep instances of the EU seemingly creating discrepancies with the films... which I would argue, if people get so angry about this, why aren?t petitions being signed to various EU authors. The most common one I cite is the Prophecy of the Chosen One. While it isn?t a clear discrepancy, having the Sith return in the Expanded Universe (and even take over the galaxy again) seems to tarnish, and at the very least cheapen, the entire premise of the films. The actual base Saga of this entire mythology is about Anakin Skywalker and his bringing balance to the Force in the most pivotal 30-something years of the galaxy?s history. But then the EU seems to demolish all the significance and accomplishments of the 6-films by having the Emperor return, having the Sith return, and having the Empire re-take-over the galaxy. Although I understand certain stories were written before the concept of the prophecy, I still find the EU inconsistency with the premise of the films to be a far greater issue than anything Lucas has done.

Epic Premise
The story of Anakin Skywalker, the Chosen One of foretold prophecy and legend who was said to be a being of pure Force energy which would allow him to bring balance to the Force through his pivotal actions. Having being born into slavery, Skywalker develops into a great Jedi, exemplified by his leading Republic forces through the brutal Clone Wars. However having reached the heights of his prowess, Skywalker is brought down by his fatal flaws embodied in his inability to face guilt and loss. It is these flaws which causes Skywalker to attempt to control fate, leading to a pact with the ?devil? through a fall to the dark side, causing his dramatic fall from grace. It is these actions which causes Skywalker to lose everything and transform into the evil Darth Vader and replace the Republic with the tyrannical

 

Well I stand corrected then. As I said, my take was based upon watching his film and its special features in which he in no way comes across as a Star Wars fan.

Like I say all I got from watching his film is the impression that he doesn't like Star Wars fans very much. Certainly his view of this petition doesn't change my view in the least. Certainly mileage can vary on that but that is my opinion based on what I know of him.

I love when my fellow forum members here start with the name calling. I mean if you can not even politely correct someone really whats the point.

I mean Darth Phil has gone straight to swearing about this issue. Is that really called for?

 

I don?t see how calling someone ?ignorant? is in any way ?searing?. I intended it not as an insult. You are ignorant about the facts and it seemed as though you were drawing conclusions based upon ill-informed information. I am ignorant about certain aspects of fandom. I am ignorant of certain aspects of the EU (KOTOR era for example). That is a fact and I am not insulted by such discription.

My apologies if you were offended, however I made a specific attempt to say that your comment was ignorant, not specifically you as a person. My apologies

 

No, you were trying to be rude(as was Rumblewagon), likely just because we're on opposite sides of this discussion. Just like your being now by including my typo in your post. There are polite ways to communicate and rude ways to communicate.

Your swearing came later actually, but is still not allowed under the rules of this forum.

 

Surely Anoobas wouldn't be any match for a Jedi such as yourself Barriss?

 

Listen mate, if I intended to be insulting and rude I would have used a worse word than ?ignorant?. I corrected myself politely and apologised, yet you insist on the notion I am attempting to insult you. I can name a number of times when you have been rude and condescending to me, yet I don?t insist on igniting and calling you out for it. Maybe you should have a look at your own posting style before you insist on crying wolf when I call your post ?ignorant?. Please take some of your own advice in the future mate because sometimes your posts can seem condescending and self-righteous. I won?t judge you on these things because sometimes peoples occasional posting styles don?t convey them accurately... thus why I don?t call people out for such things normally.

I also don?t know what you are referring to about including your ?typo? in my post. Could you please explain? EDIT: Oh I see; I didn?t realise ?searing? was a typo as it actually works in the context somewhat... so it wasn?t intended to insult you.

Anyway I don't intend on being banned so lets leave it at that or take it to PM's... I would rather a responce to the on-topic content stuff I posted opposed to petty stuff like this.

 

Geez, I wonder if the real Delegation of 2000 had these kinds of arguments? They always looked half-asleep to me in the cut ROTS scenes.

At any rate, you both know enough to drop the personal potshots. If you take it to the PM's, at least try to be civil. As Darth Phil just said, this is a petty argument not worth spilling blood over.

 

I believe Giddean Danu broke Meena Tills' monocle for saying he had a silly hat. The whole thing escalated into a full-blown brawl that ended up knocking over the sign saying 'Meeting: Proponents for Peaceful Resolution'.

 

(off-topic humor go!) It was originally the delegation of over 9000. Then they realised it had nothing to do with the internet meme, so they were left with 5000. Then it got cut to 4000 when some members couldn't agree. Then it dwindled from 3893 to 3200. Finally, it was the delegation of 2033. They felt so humiliated with an uneven number that they kicked out the remaining 33 delegates to salvage some of their dignity in being a newly downsized party.

 

Well you see fights were common in the delegation meetings, often induced by drunken parties. This is why Giddean Danu refused the alcoholic beverage from C-3PO; because he distinctly remembered the last time he had a little too much to drink on Padme?s balcony... all they remember is waking up with all members in sleeping bags, each male with a black eye and bruises, a boxing ring set up on the edge of the balcony, and a mysterious inflatable pool filled with mud and Mony Mothmas and Panda Bears bikinis... C-3PO was in pieces all over the apartment...

...never again with the drinks...

 

Not to derail the thread again, but Kyle posted more of his thoughts on his Facebook page.

Move along...move along...

 

Hahahahahaha, I don't agree with you entirely on this, but that is a hilariously awesome way to make your point.

 

I didn't sign the petition and won't do it either. I don't beleive that we as fans can suggest to the creator that he should respect any material done by other people that belong to him. To me its like someone telling me how to decorate my own house on the inside. I can accept suggestions, but the end result is mine. Furthermore, all these arguements, have been done before when the special editions of the movies were released back in 1997. Petitions were done and all that, and 14 years later, have we seen the original trilogy how it was first released? Nope. We have the hippy dippy version that some of us do not think is true star wars, but to GL is. Yeah, it sucked, but, he owens the entire thing. The EU has its moments, and in many aspects they have created better sith and jedi than GL has, but...thats the thing. Sith, Jedi, clones they all belong to GL and people who do things with his characters must relaize that.

Most of you are so completely against the second clone wars series thats its funny. You hide behind the politically correct comments of the boards, but in reality, most hate the fact that the sieres over road fan favorite dark horse comics adaptions, and several of the novels. No matter how many retcons you guys come up with the fact is, Anakin right after AOTC became a General, got a padawan, and was a jedi knight, and the hair doo that he showed in AOTC immedialtey changed to the ROTS look. Yea they inlcuded the Witches of Dathomir, the Republic Commando troopers, Quin Vos, but I promise they will be different than there comic book versions. Didn't Quin use a red light saber in the comics? How about a blaster? In the show, he had a gree lightsaber and was not in deep under cover. Can't wait to see what they do with him. You also have all this new backstory on the Witches of Dathomir, you have Darth Maul's brother Savage Oppress. and until we know further, Assaj is no longer Dooku's apprentice and is on the run, and this is at the begining of the war literally. So their goes Obsession..." Watch of the Center" Rememebr that?

 

K, I'm starting to think it's really weird that this is the second time I've heard this in a week. The original theatrical versions of the entire original trilogy are available on DVD. My friend has them and I've watched them all. Next controversy, please...

 

Also, they already have season 4 in the bag and probably most of the stories of season 5. There are not going to change stuff for any of us. They might make changes in the MMO, but thats it. If you guys complain now, imagine what they are going to do as a lead up to ROTS. Ha, these boards are going on fire. But by that time, they'll end the sieries and then you'll get hat funny non-contiunty show by Seth Green and by then most will bail out cause its infinities and not a canon type story. But wait theres more...If GL ends up doing the live action series then what????????????????????? Oh nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, more petitions and complaints.

 

I thought that too, Tarkus, but then I learned that:

Actually, I totally totally TOTALLY TOTALLY ZOMG TOTALLY AGREE! With this.

Ahem.

 

Regarding the original DVD's subject, that's a separate complaint. Whether or not he wants to put digitally remastered versions of the original theatrical releases out (like the VHS's from the 1990's) is one issue, but the complaints I read said that he refused to put out the original versions, which is another issue entirely, and, as you know, entirely false. He has done so.

 

The Chosen One prophecy has already been explained by Lucas, when Anakin destroys the Sith the prophecy is fulfilled and in Lucas mind the story ends there....at least with the story about the Sith.