Full Series Petition of the 2000: Preserving the Integrity of the Star Wars Saga

Alright. However that nullifies your initial point that the films contradict themselves on the same level as the EU so often does.

That is fine, and I agree some things should be left untouched, however you can?t preserve the entire EU. Stuff like the Mandalorians and Even Piell, while they may be integral to certain storylines, are rather minor concepts/characters to be ?steam-rolled?. Ultimately some EU has to be removed in order for George to tell the story in the fullest... especially in a timeline such as the Clone Wars...

However what is the point of the prophecy to you then? It is clear that the prophecy is in fact the destruction of the Sith, which is inevitably fulfilled by Anakin/Vader?s actions... you would have to consider it defunct or misinterpreted... Just because it isn?t spelled out in the films doesn?t mean what George has said isn?t included. It is obviously implied when you watch all the films that the prophecy spoken about in the PT is fulfilled in the OT... otherwise to you the prophecy is some type of ruse.

But then you would have an illogical situation with Ahsoka and the Jedi leaving Even Piell?s body without giving him a ?burial? ceremony him. You would had have to created a situation where Even Piell?s body is separated from Ahsoka against her will...

I think you guys are creating a ?big deal? out of a situation which isn?t that drastic. It is clear the EU is respected as much as possible... but sometimes minor storylines are scarified. It?s not like they have drastically altered the Expanded Universe.

Wo, Wo, Wo... who said I was an EU hater. I like the EU; I enjoy it, however at the same time I know where it is placed in the canon food chain. I enjoyed the comic Obsession, however it has very clearly been overwritten, and that is something I have accepted in favour of the new ?official? timeline. Like I have said, if they destroy anything absolutely vital to the EU then I will likewise find the situa

 

I don't see all of the anger at the petition. It's a well written request; not a demand. They're asking to consider the decisions Lucasfilm is making as a company as the fans of a product. What's bad about that?

 

I have never understood the Chosen One theory. It doesn't make sense that Anakin can destroy the Sith for forever. That's why i don't complain when the Sith reappear in the EU post ROTJ.

Anyone can become a Sith in Star Wars....they just need to learn dark side techniques from documents or other materials related to the dark side or previous sith. Anakin can kill every Sith in existence...but that still wouldn't stop the Sith from returning...for there will ALWAYS be people in the Star Wars galaxy who have dark morality and use the dark side for personal gain....its human nature....something Anakin can't kill.


NOW

The Prophecy would work with the EU...if it was interpreted as Anakin stopping the Sith from reaching a certain point of power. All the new Sith post ROTJ are not as powerful as previous Sith. After all...Palpatine was the last most powerful Sith since ROTJ (not counting his Dark Empire return, since even then Palpatine was weaker then his previous incarnation), so in a way Anakin made sure no other sith like Palpatine would ever exist again.


It is really how you interpret the Prophecy and what you consider is a "Sith".



Let me give an example in what im trying to say. Let's compare the Sith to the Mafia. The Mafia is originzed crime and is alot more dangerous then individual criminals....like the Sith is an organized faction of dark siders (dark jedi), and alot more dangerous then the average dark jedi.

Let's say all of the Mafia is wiped out...what is stopping the lower class of criminal from becoming organized and becoming a new Mafia? NOTHING

So what would stop the dark jedi from taking the place of the destroyed sith and becoming sith themselves in the process? NOTHING

 

I personally think the fulfillment of the Chosen One prophecy was more that he ended the reign of a galactic tyrant and oppressor rather than something based on eliminating a Force ideology. You can't eliminate ideologies. There are still Nazis, by Crom's balls. Eliminating the Sith is the Jedi's interpretation of the Chosen One prophecy, but all the prophecy actually says is that balance of the Force will be brought about, according to my interpretation. I'd say eliminating almost all of the followers of the two major Force ideologies and then deposing the evil ruler of the galaxy goes a long way to achieving balance.

 

Understood and respected.

Well apparently, according to the Saga itself, it is not as easy as one might think for a ?Force Order? to return following their complete destruction. Yoda and Obi-Wan make specific note that Luke and Leia are their ?last hope? apparently ruling out any future re-emergence of the Jedi.

You have to remember it is not easy to simply train to be a Sith. While there may be other ?dark Force-users? unless they are Sith they do not have the ability to cause an imbalance in the Force. I think some of you may immediately be jumping to the conclusion that every ?darksiders? is a Sith... that is not the case. Typically it requires an unbroken line of knowledge and training for the lineage to continue; something we see in both the Jedi and Sith orders. Chances are that Palpatine accumulated all of the Sith knowledge within the galaxy (holocrons, etc) on Coruscant... something which would have been undoubtedly destroyed with the inevitable Republic siege of Coruscant or in the preceding riots and uprisings we see in ROTJ. This is much the same instance as what Palpatine had done to the Jedi Order ? if Yoda and Obi-Wan had not trained Luke the Jedi knowledge would have died with them.

Yes, it is possible for other ?Force-wielders? to manipulate the dark side of the Force, however like Asajj Ventress and Savage Opress, they are not Sith. It is completely possible that the Sith would have been obliterated both physically and their teachings. You also have the problem of the lack of discipline the Sith needed in order to survive in hiding from 1000 BBY ? 19 BBY... something which may have lacked without the Sith lineage. Then, furthermore, now that the Jedi are balanced as an order, they are better equip to quell any unnatural strength of ?Darksiders? which may develop into a new breed of Sith.

Ultimately I think it is obvious that the intent of the prophecy is to bring balance to the Force. Whil

 

3 seasons of 30-minute TV episodes are managable. Hundreds of EU novels/comics/video games aren't. I think that's what he meant.

 

There are no continuity errors. It's all because of the Time War! Even Pell died in the wrong spot? Time War. Did Luke and Vader first meet on Mimban or Bespin? Time War. Anakin and Kenobi switching sabers on Mustafar? It's the latest gambit by the Daleks in the Time War.

Problem sorted, easy peasy.

 

Well concept of her is heavily based on Oola- GL's creation- it was just eu-idea to put sexy colorfulskinned tentacleheaded dancer to be jedi instead She was blue Oola with lightsaber nothing really 100 percent EU there..... Vos is also based on background extra in TPM and EU did the same used the design created a jedi out of it- while characterisations of them are eu their looks are not so saying they're 100 percent eu is false statement they're 80 percent eu or so.....

Well i don't know has Leia been told she is adopted i always thought she knows that is not really confirmed- she says she have somehow already known Luke is her brother but it's more subconscious thing (not too odd since Obi-Wan says they were hidden after their birth so if she remembers Luke why not Padmé?) but then again novel claims Padmé lived some time on Alderaan but it also claimed Owen Lars is Obi-Wan's brother something that clearly contradicted movie- so never trusted that novel really- i was glad to see lavapit story was in ROTS as much cooler version as in the book....
but still if Luke has not been told about Leia being adopted and Leia don't know that herself she should speak about Breha not Padmé so now it makes more sense actually....

I read the book of ROTJ before ROTS so i expected to see Anakin falling in the lavapit and didn't expect Padmé to die- but i was happy how Bail, Yoda and Mustafar all were there still and movie had the same spirit as the book somehow...it felt like it really happened i've read about this- it's like reading the history-books- they so many times have inconsistencies and illogical depictions of same real happenings- when fiction has these different versions it feels so realistic i was just happy novel had errors- main happenings were the same-
Leia probably had powerful memories of both Padmé and Breha and she formed a picture about "longlost mother" who was not a real person but some kind of combination... who knows if we see third sad woman meeting Leia as very young- Ahsoka- Leia remembered beauty and sadness... haha retconning is so beautiful....

Soka was created much later yet we can always claim she was always there as mere mention of "Anakin soon becoming master" (usually it requires padawan) etc. or Qui-Gon guy who is clear retcon- while Obi-Wan was trained by Yoda as youngling his lines in ESB sound like master Qui-Gon never even existed- yet we can possibly see Qui-Gon's Poncho in ANH and you can see how Obi-Wan's hut is obviously haunted items move around with no one touching them (like little cylinders at the table) it's Qui-Gon's spirit there
And he was behind entire forceghosting- it didn't actually make sense with old EU that Vader is surprised when Ben disappears- he helped Empire to destroy the jedi so he should know how jedi die..... they don't normally disappear completely

[quote=Executor_

 

I agree with this. In the end, Star Wars is George Lucas' creation. He can do with it what he damn well pleases. And I'm perfectly fine with that. I may not agree with some of what he's done, but I don't think I have any "right" to try to tell him what to do with the world he created. It all just seems rather pointless to me, but to each their own I guess.

 

Yes problem here cannot be ignored- TCW brought up the truth (truth i always understood)- EU is not part of the saga- Lucas don't write it he hardly knows about it- he don't take it seriously..... but many fans did- there we have articles in wookieepedia and all saying EU would be equal to the saga- it would all be the same continuity- ..... that never was the case- now it's just highlighted by this series- EU is not same universe it never have been completely logic or working while it have tried to be- after all Lucas-changes EU has changed too- now there just is so much Lucaschanges it's hard for EU to keep up with them and it creates this problem eu-writers have no time to create retcons as before- Lucas wants freedom to continue his story but EU binds so much with all established dates and timelines it simply have overtaken this universe GL created and i think it's EU's fault as well as George's own- while giving so much freedom to eu-writers he let them to create stories that are for some people -just as good or even better than GL:s own- it's a point of view thing really so there is quite a mess- "which is worth to be canon" because someone hates same story some other loves good and bad stories are not defined by anything else but opinions that differ....

But GL decided to share his sandbox with others- he made a choice- he suffers the consequences already- being bashed by his own "fans" and not completely in vain he definitely made a mistake by sharing his box with so many others- some who apparently forget they are not only writing their own story but George's universe- like Karen Traviss who took mandos to be "her own people" and was insulted when George decided he wants to use them himself- he created the term and idea after all- not Traviss- i think she should've stayed around and do retcons for her fans- discuss with George and Filoni and reach the compromise- where there would be no major conflict-
just bit flexibility and i'm sure they would've figured it out how there can be two mandalores and warriorculture was still there no one removed it

....but instead she abandoned the whole franchise and all her fans- leaving mandos to be very problematic issue- really cannot give her much credit- i would've sympathised her if she wouldn't have ran away like that- how she could have known George returns to Mandalore- no one can claim her about creating different version of Mandalore- but how much better it would've been for the fans of her work if she would've stayed around since George's pacifist addition made warriorculture far more interesting idea- but she ran away as insulted...... Don't want to bash Traviss haven't read her work much but he

 

People complaining about Star Wars are nothing new. They?ve been doing so for decades. But it?s still here, and it?s still making more than enough money to survive.

If they want to sign the petition, fine. As long as I don?t have to hear from the elitist ?TRUE Star Wars fans? I?m quite content.

 

This is how I always saw it back before the PT.

I always saw the OT as the Rebels vs the Empire, not Jedi vs Sith. The Jedi, the Force and all that stuff was minor to me, it was all about taking down the tyrannical Empire.

The Chosen One is never even mentioned in the OT. We didn't even know what a Sith was. The Force, the dark side and all that stuff took a backseat to the actual conflict going on.

Did anyone see the OT and go "Awesome! The Prophecy of the Chosen One has been fulfilled!" ?

Why am I saying this in a petition thread?

 

Haha it's crazy how many people call themselves "SW-fans" and then start to bash prequels or TCW or EU or even originals...... i think non-SW-fans bash SW much less than so-called fans- it's obvious that SW creates great feelings though- both positive and negative- GL haven't completely failed when he has created something we still talk after so many decades and even EU still lives on...people talk nowadays like George would have slain EU or something...... soon someone will create retcon for Even Piell and 'everything is fine' again
Then may the Force help us when Oppo Rancissis is killed in TCW or something .... new petitions follow....

Still i think it's so extremist view to say everyone who is not so upset about eu-conflicts is "Eu-hater" and "My enemy"- someone who says "I never even liked all stuff in C-canon" is enemy of all EU....Eu is not just one big thing either accepted completely or abandoned completely let it be open for changes and new ideas not some limiting dogma that must not be contradicted ever....

Nowadays i do

I cannot understand you even as much as you do yourself.... so sorry...I cannot answer

 

The ForceCast's Jason Swank did a rant on this petition in the latest ForceCast episode. I agree with everything he says.

 

Tried to listen, but couldn't. I'd rather come home from work and listen to C-3PO vent about his day.

 

The why I see it everyone here is a True Star Wars fan but nobody has the right to claim it to one side, the EU fans vs. the non EU fans. Just like conservative/liberal you are still American and have no greater claim then the other side has to that. Star Wars fans can pick and choose what they like and that is fine and their choose. Nobody should be able to tell them differently. I think what is important is that Star Wars fans, no matter where they come from, support each other in order for each individual person to enjoy Star Wars the way they want too. Do I like the Legacy Comics, no but I will support those who do not want to see the main bad guy die in this series because he makes up their Star Wars universe (although I doubt said scenerio will happen, just an example).

One of (if maybe only) the biggest problems I have with the forcecast is when Jason always bashes the EU. We get it he doesn't like the EU but could he please stop bashing it because some people like still like the EU. People are free to express certain things they like and dislike but in the end we should all agree that each person is entitled to their opinion and someone saying how bad the other side sucks leads to no where. Yes the same can be said about EU fans bashing the Clone Wars as being to childish or whatever.

All I'm saying is Star Wars fans don't need to agree "What really makes Star Wars" they just need to be supportive of letting other people make their own choices. After all, this is a fictional world.

 

The fact that I agree with him shows how much my view on fandom has changed.

Over a year ago, I couldn't stand Jason. It frustrated me whenever he'd rip on the EU and plays "Another One Bites the Dust" whenever something in TCW contradicts pre-existing EU. But around Celebration V, I was poking my head in here, hoping to see some fan discussion. Instead, I see a bunch of complainers. People say the TFN forums have a bad rep, I knew then why. I became so tired of those fans, more so than Jason. My view has changed, and I learned to accept that it's Lucas' universe and he can change whatever he wants, and I approach every new episode with that mindset, and I find myself becoming less frustrated.

I don't think he was bashing the EU itself, he was ripping on the fact that this petition, which to him was similar to an open letter against Lucas, was made to restrict and confine Lucas and co. with pre-existing continuity, which I agree with.

 

That's not what I see it as though. I see it as addressing a major problem within the Lucasfilm company. They want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to sell books under one branch of the company. Fine. They also want to have George Lucas tell stories. Also fine, that's how it should be. But all that needs to happen is George Lucas needs to say, "This is the Clone Wars period. I'm going to be telling stories in this era, so don't tell any stories or flesh out/kill any characters then." It's as simple as that. Just say hands off. But he said ok to writing stories in that era, stories that aren't under his vision. And then he goes and he creates his stories which contradict something that had his company's and therefore his, approval. It's great that he's telling stories in this era, in fact it's great that he's even bothering to tell stories. But if his company is going to stress it as one continuous story then work within the confines of the universe.

I said this on Facebook and I'll say it again. I got to see the two parter series finale. It was an excellent pair of episodes, and I daresay it's the best of the series. And there's nary a continuity issue.

We're very simply asking for some creativity. How about making new stories instead of copying stories from old ones? Why not create new characters, new planets, new adventures instead of strip mining old ones?

I'm a proud signatory of the petition by the way.

EDIT: It's currently at 781 signatures. Almost halfway to the assumed goal.

 

And EU never does that? actually i see that TCW has more creativity than most EU- just look at TOR- noncloned clones (I'm sorry republic troopers) fight black stormtroopers(I mean sith Empire) with tiefighters(or whatever V-wings) and stardestroyers(With identical bridges and fleet officers even) and even droidekas(those things in Alderaan-forest) and every saga's jedi have their ancient ancestors there ancient Aayla, ancient Shaak Ti or that Luminara humanversion in TFN banner...... what about senate it was only bit less round at those days and Sith Emperor (that looks not at all like Palpatine) has throne in carbonfreezingchamber looking place... and guy who attacked jedi temple (that has not changed at all) didn't look like battledamaged Darth Vader at all....

 

Sorry, I thought that was after Lucas' very thing of making things look similar. ARC-170's, V-Wings, etc...

Plus TOR hasn't destroyed any prior sources or products.

 

So what are you complaining about? Lucas doesn't make TOR he does make TCW so it's ok if others copy him or what.... kudos to copycats?

TCW has used many new ideas that seems to be the problem since Pacifist-mandos(definitely new idea) was not very liked.... you are using wrong terms- TCW don't copy anything (like most EU does) but yes Lucas don't care about established it's not secret- he just thinks he has right to complete his vision he seems to fail the understand that fans cannot see that clear difference between his universe and EU -like he does- because we don't know which EU conflicts with his vision and which one doesn't......

I sympathise you EU-fans- really....but i think many are overreacting now- we more puristics filmfans never really liked all eu so we had to accept it as canon- now it's your turn accept some EU as non-canon-

but i would say all eras are rather safe except clone wars era- Lucas probably leaves Old Republic and Legacy alone..... for now.....