Phantom Editor Speaks: AOTC review

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by JoelDubin, Jul 10, 2002.

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  1. JoelDubin Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 2001
    star 1
    Ok boys and girls. Dont know if this turned up yet, and please kill this post if it has, but for those mature fans of the Star Wars saga, this review is a must-read.

    PLEASE KEEP AN OPEN MIND.

    Lower your defenses, and read it for what it is. Some will call it bashing. I call it a deep and honest emotional response to seeing a work of art you've loved and cherished since you were achild spray painted with grafitti. Also, please realise, reviews like these come not for the sake of bashing or to keep Matrix and LOTR on the map, but more realistically because of the deep love and admiration that fans like this hold for a thing of beauty, now tarnished,

    Now I know theres built in controversy here regarding "the phantom editor" as he calls himself. Maybe it is well founded. Nevertheless, I feel this guy is a genuine lover of the saga, as I have been my whole life since back in 4th grade, the day I persuaded my dad to take me to see Star Wars instead of a ball game back in '77.

    here goes...

    http://www.theeditdr.com/aotc.html
  2. the_GIANT Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2002
    "I really thought I was in line for a Star Wars movie, and not Starship Troopers part 2."

    Well, I loved Starship Troopers so I stopped reading there. :)

    the_GIANT
  3. DOOKU2004 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2002
    Phantom....you are truly an embarassment to true star wars fans. Why do you even come to these boards 2 months after seeing AOTC to post your spiteful review. Admit it, you're probably a LOTR fan who needs to tear down other movies to make yours somehow better. You act like Lucas owes you something. If you don't like a movie, fine, then don't go watch the next one. Do us all a favor and just stop calling yourself a star wars fan because you're not. Anyone going out of their way to rip AOTC this much while professing to be a fan of the OT is full of $%*^. Your review is a pathetic rant of someone who forgets what star wars is all about. You haven't even seen the final Prequel and your allready just blasting it. The midnight showing I was at loved it. And your problem with the dream scene sounds like a personal problem of yours to me. Nobody in my showing did any of the stupid things yours did. What's your beef with Lucas? Did he turn you down for a job or something. Why don't you find someone (preferably female) to spend your idle time with instead of bashing star wars. Leave star wars for the true fans who appreciate a killer movie....
  4. TokyoXtreme Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 4
    If I read that article, it may challenge my very identity as a "Star Wars Fan". I am better off just to ignore it and enjoy my lightsabers in peace.
  5. TokyoXtreme Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 4
    But just for fun, why don't we actually read his review and point out logical flaws in his arguments, and then offer an alternate point of view? All in an intelligent manner?
  6. AGGIE_WAN_KENOBI Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2001
    star 1
    It's unbelievable how "fans" can bash someone for expressing their opinion. Previous posts rip on The Phantom Editor because he disagrees with your view of the film, and then reference LOTR in some vain attempt in making sense.

    Hey people, Star Wars is not life and other great movies do exist in the world. Don't bash others for expressing their personal views on AOTC.


    EDIT: Jul 02 - [face_plain]
  7. DOOKU2004 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2002
    Aggie, if you truly believe the phantom is just expressing his views then "you are truly dead"....are you by chance related to the phantom?
  8. SWfan2002 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2002
    star 4
    I did find myself feeling as if I was watching somebody playing an X-BOX game most of the time.

    Xbox doesn't even come close.

    At times, this movie really hurts to watch.

    Anyone who gets hurt watching a movie has issues...

    Most of the direction (as brutal as it sounds) is more on par with one of the Friday the 13th movies.

    That's a pathetic stab at GL. It's also a stab at Steven Speilburg, who said George did a fine job. This "editor" isn't worth the effort.

  9. TokyoXtreme Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 4
    I said in an intelligent manner...
  10. SWfan2002 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2002
    star 4
    Tokyo,

    How about you try responding to crap intelligently.
  11. PloKloon1138 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 2001
    star 4
  12. TokyoXtreme Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 4
    How about you try responding to crap intelligently.

    Very well. I'll start with your first post!
  13. SWfan2002 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2002
    star 4
    That's real intelligent Tokyo. Your intellect astounds me.
  14. Count_Lucho Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2002
    I am sorry, all you die hard fans. I have
    to agree with the Phantom Editor...

    He is the first one that I know of to say
    what we have all been feeling but are afraid
    to admit, even to ourselves. AOTC was a
    dissapointment. If that had been the first
    prequel movie, I wouldn't feel so bad...

    But, it was the second. Lucas is 0 for 2.
    Now we have to cross our fingers
    and hope that Ep.III delivers at least as
    good as ANH, and god willing, ESB.

    I will always love "Star Wars" as an idea,
    as a place in my imagination, long ago and
    far, far away that to me is very "real"

    So far, the prequel trilogy has taken that
    away, with its CGI that looks more like a
    video game than anything else, with its one-
    line plot points and scientific explanations
    (midi's) and with supporting cast such as
    Sam Jackson and Jimmy Smits, I am always
    aware of the fact that "this is a movie". It
    does not take me anywhere.

    Perhaps Lucas waited too long to do the PT.
    He said he was waiting for the technology to
    catch up to his "vision". But really, what
    have we gained from that? Now that he can
    pretty much create any visual he can imagine,
    what has that done for the STORY?

  15. AGGIE_WAN_KENOBI Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2001
    star 1
    Someone please answer me this:

    Why does one person's opinion of AOTC effect you so much? If you enjoyed the movie, why does it bother you that someone else did not? No one can take away your opinion or love for AOTC, so why should you try and take away someone elses?

    I enjoyed AOTC, but felt it was severely lacking in several ways. No matter what a gusher or a basher says, it won't change my opinion.

  16. AnakinSlave Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 16, 2002
    star 3
    Just who is the Phantom and why should we give a f*** what he/she says about AOTC?????
  17. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    The Phantom Editor's review sums it all up perfectly for me, also giving a credible summary of why it is so many of the fans love AOTC, while the public finds it even less interesting than The Phantom Menace.

    Some of his comparisons are irrelevant and hurt his case, such as his references to Starship Troopers and the Friday the 13th films, but in all I think he's hit the nail on the head. He hasn't written anything many other fans haven't already said over the last two months.

    In terms of dialogue, acting, directing and editing, AOTC is an even weaker film than TPM. It's only the action and effects that jazz the fans up and confuse them into thinking they're seeing a movie that remotely resembles a competent drama.
  18. Miiike Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 16, 2001
    star 2
    Is there a reason that this is not in one of the numerous other threads reviewing the film?
  19. Luke_Clone Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2002
    star 4
    "Is there a reason that this is not in one of the numerous other threads reviewing the film?"

    My question exactly. If we should post in the official review threads, why shouldn't the phantom editor?
  20. SWfan2002 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2002
    star 4
    He is the first one that I know of to say
    what we have all been feeling but are afraid
    to admit, even to ourselves. AOTC was a
    dissapointment. If that had been the first
    prequel movie, I wouldn't feel so bad...


    I disagree. I certainly was not disappointed by AOTC, and no one I know was either. The ONLY places I have heard people complain about AOTC is on these boards or other internet sites. The vast majority of moviegoers seem to like AOTC, and a poll on tf.n indicates that over 90% of fans do. That's a great percentage when fans have been some of TPM's harshest critics.
  21. SWfan2002 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2002
    star 4
    In terms of dialogue, acting, directing and editing, AOTC is an even weaker film than TPM.

    That's your opinion.

    It's only the action and effects that jazz the fans up and confuse them into thinking they're seeing a movie that remotely resembles a competent drama.

    That's also your opinion, and I don't appreciate the way you're talking "down" to people.
  22. shakermaker Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2002
    star 1
    Well, first let me say, that I by no means consider AOTC to be a perfect movie. I don?t consider it to be flawless ? in fact, I would say that it has some pretty obvious flaws, but only in terms of dialogue. What I do consider AOTC to be, is a movie that is every bit as good as the OT. I agree with your review on many points, but I also disagree on many others. Let?s see.

    ?The dialogue in Attack of the Clones is continuously forced, uncomfortable, and as in The Phantom Menace, too uninspired. Lucas again forgets how to tell a story with images and relies on an abundance of exposition through unnecessary and poorly scripted dialogue to move the story forward.?

    I will be the first to admit that when it comes to dialogue Lucas DOES have a problem, but I do not find it to be a problem that overshadows the movie as a whole. Yes, the dialogue is cheesy at times. Most noticeably in a few of the romantic scenes between Anakin and Padmé. Lines like ?I am haunted by the kiss that you should never have given me? just aren?t good enough and Lucas will have to do better on the next one. But I don?t see why the dialogue is ?continuously forced? as you say. Consider the situation in which the characters find themselves and the way of their mental state and I think you will agree with me, that it does come across in the style of dialogue. Another thing is, that the characters involved in AOTC come from a society where the tone is somewhat formal and at times can seem artificial. Furthermore, one could say in the defence of the dialogue in all of the Star wars movies that it has always been a bit corny ? in lack of a better word. I certainly don?t agree with your statement, that Lucas forgets to tell the story with images. I think this movie does it just as well as all the others. That is also why some may note, that the scenery looks a bit clichéd at times ? you need to be able to SEE the beauty of the world these characters inhabit ? thus making it even more heartbreaking when it all falls apart. A thing called pathos ? which Lucas does understand. Well, that was a little side step there. So, agreed, it does have problems with the dialogue, but only in a few scenes ? and in no way does it compromise the integrity of the entire movie.

    ?Is it so much to ask someone with so many resources that you could have good storytelling, good performances AND good lightsabers fights? Why do we have to be sold so short? (Sorry actors, I know it?s not your fault)?

    First of, let me say that the storytelling in AOTC is every bit as good as in the OT. I find it hard to believe and even accept the notion, that the storytelling itself has suddenly suffered a great deal during the years since it was written more than 25 years ago. If you want to comment on the storytelling as being bad I feel that it is somehow relying on a misconception. What you are thinking about is perhaps the editing of the movie, something I have commented on before on this board. This is what I wrote in connection with the PT and the way their editing styles differ from the originals:

    I always felt that the biggest problem with Episode One was the pace. It is both very fast at times and slow at others; very uneven. The main problem here being that there is far to much story that needs to be told and to little time to do it in, so Lucas had to turn up the pace. Sadly, it was just a tad too much in my opinion. Lucas was aware of this problem. As some of you may know he changed a lot in the beginning of the movie and in the end after the first testscreening, because it was to rushed. When discussing this with Rick McCallum after the screening he says ?That?s the way I designed it to be, but we can diminish the effects of it.? Clearly he felt that the picture needed some editing to slow down the pace so that it wouldn?t feel too rushed. Sadly this wasn?t done as much as I could have hoped.

    In Episode 2 there is also a lot going on with the story and there is also a tremendous amount of intercutting going on between different situations. Mostl
  23. DOOKU2004 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2002
    Star Wars is much more than just a 2 hour movie. There is so much going on that it is impossible to show it all in 2 to 2 1/2 hours. The greatness about the movies (especially the prequels) is that look how much is covered in the movies. In AOTC, the clone wars start, anakin and padme marry, a secessionist movement is led by an ex-jedi, who is now a sith, an assassination attempt on a galactic senator is made and the would be assassin is tracked down and has links to the sith and separatists, the senate gives emergency powers to palpatine, anakin and obi-wan's relationship is expanded, the jedi temple and archives are shown as well as Yoda instructing young jedi's, the mystery of Sifo-Dias, count dooku being yoda's former padawan and defeating anakin and obi-wan and then drawing Yoda, the seemier side of coruscant is shown....that's so much to cover, you could spend two hours on 1/5 of the material....there's so much there, that FANS will be talking about it and figuring it out for years to come... that's what I love about star wars...if you want a tight story about one event then go watch titanic....
  24. TokyoXtreme Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 4
    I did find myself feeling as if I was watching somebody playing an X-BOX game most of the time.

    Xbox doesn't even come close.

    Apparently the editor meant that AOTC looks and feels like an X-BOX game, albeit with better graphics. They should be better, considering the budget.

    I was reminded of Onimusha during the arena battle, but I thought Onimusha had better designs. That's just a matter of taste though.

    Come to think of it, Onimusha, with its "controversial" pre-rendered background graphics, looks pretty similar to AOTC. Art direction is obviously different, but the level of realism is not that far off. AOTC's CGI backgrounds are not rendered in real time, so they are on an equal playing field with that of modern video games. As far as the CGI characters are concerned, of course they look better -- a direct result of the millions of dollars ILM invested in high-performance workstations, much more powerful than the PS2.

    Still, there's not all that much difference.

    At times, this movie really hurts to watch.

    Anyone who gets hurt watching a movie has issues...

    The editor was obviously feeling despair and discomfort, acceptable synonyms for "hurt", which is pretty obvious. "Has issues" is a cliche, by the way.

    Most of the direction (as brutal as it sounds) is more on par with one of the Friday the 13th movies.

    That's a pathetic stab at GL. It's also a stab at Steven Speilburg, who said George did a fine job. This "editor" isn't worth the effort.

    Are you flaming the Friday the 13th series now? Basher! And how can you bring SpielBERG into this, because he once said Lucas did a "fine job"? That's a reach.

    You should have posted the entire paragraph, which clarifies this "shocking" statement:

    Most of the direction (as brutal as it sounds) is more on par with one of the Friday the 13th movies. In a film where serious character progression is essential through dialogue and action here it is handled more like moving chess pieces from A to B.

    I tend to agree with this statement, primarily because the characters don't appear three-dimensional or fleshed out. By this, I mean that everyone in the film feels like a stock character, devoid of dramatic weight. What do we know about Padme? Why does she fall in love with Anakin? Why does Anakin think about her every day for ten years? Lucas doesn't try to make me believe that these outlandish things can actually happen.

    In AOTC, the events are heavily contrived and artificial. Obi-Wan follows an incredibly meandering trail that leads him to a 50's diner, where some alien knows more than the Jedi library. Anakin has a bad dream and goes to Tatooine, seemingly on nothing but a Jedi hunch. There supposedly were dream sequences that were cut; perhaps they would have made the situation appeared more dire. That's just it really... the complications and rising actions simply aren't dire enough.

    I liked it better when the characters responded to the action and reacted. Han and Leia ran to Bespin because Bespin was their only choice. Luke voyaged to Dagobah to learn the force, to become a Jedi, and then to destroy Vader. He travels to Cloud City because of his premonitions, and against Yoda's warnings. The events of Star Wars (ANH, sorry) are equally clear. Luke's family gets killed, so he leaves for Alderaan, and gets caught by the Death Star on the way. They escape to their base, and the Death Star follows.

    AOTC's audio and video are pretty nice, and it was enough to keep me occupied, but as far as characters and action... I prefer just to capsulize AOTC with "Jedis Obi and Ani follow Fett into title battle".
  25. TokyoXtreme Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 4
    By the way SWFAN, it was really intelligent. Learn not, live not, my master always says.
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