Phantom Menace is now a 'classic'

What makes you, Loco_for_Lucas, think I'm going out of my way significantly with my interpretation of the transition of Jabba the Hutt from a gangster prefect in Hutt space to dingy crimelord in the Imperial era?

 

Read what I said, I was specific in what I was curious about. After a response by Lukecash, you asked if your interpretation was accurate, without any indication of who you were asking, it looked like you were asking him if yours was accurate to his.

 

Would you please be so kind as to respond to my inquiry? Thank you.

 

Jabba of the PT cannot exist in the OT.

A) In the OT, the border that delineates Hutt space from Imperial space is permeable, at best, if not utterly nonexistent. Clearly, its residents know enough about the institution to hate it. Tatooine's political infrastructure responds to it with tolerance if not acceptance. And Tatooine's citizens can even apply to its academy. If that's not Imperial invasion, I don't know what is.

Voluntary application, that is NOT invasion; conscription, now THAT's invasion. The fact Tatooine people are able to voluntarily apply for the Imperial academy shows how distant the Empire is from them all and how little (if any) of a hand it plays in their lives. Of course they have opinions on it, we have opinions on Iraq, and that's quite a ways away; but they are distant enough from the grip of the Empire to not be involved. The only way is if they decide to get involved, rather than the Empire coming in and telling them to.

B) Tatooine resides in a region that is "farthest from the bright side of the universe". Therefore, it would be perfectly reasonable to politically justify the absence of a permanent Imperial military presence favoring, instead, the political influence of regional governors who have direct control of their territories where fear would keep the local systems in line. This type of control would be particularly true for those outlying regions like Tatooine.

Where fear would be used to keep Tatooine in order ala Death Star? Were that so, then we'd see a major change in lifestyle on Tatooine due to, even indirect, Imperial influence. We see none though, Tatooine in ANH is the same as it was in TPM. We see no fear in the citizens of Tatooine, and if we did, Tatooine would not be a harbor for pirates and low-lifes. They'd be forced to shape up through the fear of the surrounding governors.

C) The Galactic Empire, as ruthless as it may be, is not lawless. In fact, its genesis was inspired to establish order in a galaxy that was in dire need for it.

Like I said before, why is Tatooine still a lawless planet then? They would have instituted fear into it, if it were under even indirect rule. As a harbor for pirates and scum, people could also come in with ideas of rebellion and dissent. You would figure the Empire would have changed that, seeing as how it would be a threat. But it seems like it hasn't changed at all, not one bit.

-Jabba's through with you. He has no time for smugglers who drop their shipments at the first sign of an Imperial cruiser.

-Even I get boarded sometimes. You think I had a choice.

I always thought it was funny. Greedo says Jabba has no time for smugglers who drop shipment, then a few minutes later we see Jabba taking the time to see a smuggler who dropped shipment. That just illustrates how needless that scene was. Six months of work (or however long it was) for a scene that contradicted a line mentioned earlier. (and yes, I know you're going to say it was a ploy by Greedo to get his hands on the money)

The assumption that the Empire would socially and politically permit racketeering within its realm is nonsensical - unless directly sanctioned by it (ie. bounty hunting).

Then Tatooine must obviously be out of its realm.

D) Despite the fact that Tatooine is "farthest from the bright side of the universe", holding fast to the assumption that the Empire has no influence and control of Hutt space is entirely inappropriate if one considers the fervor of the support for the rebellion against the Empire within the hearts of both Luke Skywalker and Biggs Darklighter - life long residents of Tatooine.

Well, as I said before, if citizens have the option of joining the Imperial Academy, how imposing is the Empire? They've brought about no social change, Tatooine is still a harbor for terrorist scum and the Hutts still operate,

 

He is actually dead on, while your logic isn't convincing.

 

Loco_for_Lucas

>>>Of course they have opinions on it, we have opinions on Iraq, and that's quite a ways away; but they are distant enough from the grip of the Empire to not be involved.

That's your uncle talking. He didn't want you following old...

Oh, sorry. Forgot where I was for a moment...

Do you really think that Tatooine isn't supposed to be in the Empire in the OT?

I've not heard that theory before. I suppose it isn't explicitly stated in the OT that Tatooine is in the Empire...

>>>Were that so, then we'd see a major change in lifestyle on Tatooine due to, even indirect, Imperial influence.

Well, we do see;
Local pilots having to worry about Imperial cruisers on a regular basis,
Stormtroopers in the streets with nobody batting an eyelid,
Locals being in league with the stormtroopers,
Three Star Destroyers in orbit around the planet.

>>>We see no fear in the citizens of Tatooine, and if we did, Tatooine would not be a harbor for pirates and low-lifes.



Are you confusing the fear of the Death Star that would "keep the regional governors in line" with some idea of Imperial citizens living every moment of their lives in visible fear?

>>>They'd be forced to shape up through the fear of the surrounding governors.

What makes you think that Jabba the Hutt (who, incidentally, Vader is perfectly aware of in ESB) can't be the "local governor"?

>>>As a harbor for pirates and scum, people could also come in with ideas of rebellion and dissent. You would figure the Empire would have changed that, seeing as how it would be a threat.

How is pirates and scum killing one another in a bar out on the edge of the galaxy a threat to the Empire?

 

Hmm....so the Hutts let their citizens escape their borders to serve a foreign state by applying to a foreign military academy whenever they so choose? It would be a logistical nightmare if the Empire were forced to maintain records of foreigners within their own militia. How does the Empire insure conformity and allegiance?

You seriously believe that Tatooine and other planets within the jurisdiction of Hutt space would not revolt when Imperial soldiers can kill its residents simply because they were in possession of droids that they had no idea contained stolen Imperial data tapes. Okay.....

Sounds as though you believe the Empire would do and can do whatever it feels is necessary through the installation of fear. A point that you have clearly denied that the Empire uses in a land such as Tatooine:

shows how distant the Empire is from them all and how little (if any) of a hand it plays in their lives

then we'd see a major change in lifestyle on Tatooine due to, even indirect, Imperial influence. We see none though,

What makes you think, though, that the Empire stopped short of simply annexing it? Ohh...I see....Palpatine really has a soft spot in his heart for those humble, little moisture farmers.

All I can say is that you have a unique interpretation of A New Hope. Oh well...

 

E) With the fall of the Emperor and the end of the Imperial regime at the conclusion to ROTJ, the residents of Mos Eisley are dancing in the streets. Or was that Mardi Gras Lucas was showing us?

 

That's your uncle talking. He didn't want you following old...

Oh, sorry. Forgot where I was for a moment...

Do you really think that Tatooine isn't supposed to be in the Empire in the OT?

I've not heard that theory before. I suppose it isn't explicitly stated in the OT that Tatooine is in the Empire...

It should be obvious they aren't, to where the citizens have the option to get involved or not.

Well, we do see;
Local pilots having to worry about Imperial cruisers on a regular basis,

We don't know where Han was when he dropped shipment. It wasn't over Tatooine, that's for sure, it would be stupid then. So I guess Han was in Imperial "territory." Unless he's so spineless, he just drops shipment right over Tatooine...

Stormtroopers in the streets with nobody batting an eyelid, Locals being in league with the stormtroopers, Three Star Destroyers in orbit around the planet.

Imperial non-interference in a non-territory. Your point?

Are you confusing the fear of the Death Star that would "keep the regional governors in line" with some idea of Imperial citizens living every moment of their lives in visible fear?

It was implied by the person who queried me that fear was used to keep systems in line.

What makes you think that Jabba the Hutt (who, incidentally, Vader is perfectly aware of in ESB) can't be the "local governor"?

Then Vader would have been working with Jabba, not freelancers, in searching for Han. If Jabba were a "local governor," he'd be working with Vader in the matter of finding Captain Solo. It was obvious they were working independent of each other.

How is pirates and scum killing one another in a bar out on the edge of the galaxy a threat to the Empire?

Hmm, let's see, a place where low-lifes and scum hide out and meet during a time of Civil War, yeah, there's no reason the Empire would be interested in stopping that...

E) With the fall of the Emperor and the end of the Imperial regime at the conclusion to ROTJ, the residents of Mos Eisley are dancing in the streets. Or was that Mardi Gras Lucas was showing us?

Lando said Bespin was out of Imperial jurisdiction, why were people celebrating THERE when the Death Star was destroyed? Hmm?

 

Hmm....so the Hutts let their citizens escape their borders to serve a foreign state by applying to a foreign military academy whenever they so choose?

I guess.

It would be a logistical nightmare if the Empire were forced to maintain records of foreigners within their own militia. How does the Empire insure conformity and allegiance?

If cadets can detract and join the Rebellion, it's obvious that they don't.

You seriously believe that Tatooine and other planets within the jurisdiction of Hutt space would not revolt when Imperial soldiers can kill its residents simply because they were in possession of droids that they had no idea contained stolen Imperial data tapes. Okay.....

*Looks through own post*

...

When did I say that?

Sounds as though you believe the Empire would do and can do whatever it feels is necessary through the installation of fear.

Ya think? Maybe that Death Star was just built for fun.

A point that you have clearly denied that the Empire uses in a land such as Tatooine:


shows how distant the Empire is from them all and how little (if any) of a hand it plays in their lives

then we'd see a major change in lifestyle on Tatooine due to, even indirect, Imperial influence. We see none though,


What makes you think, though, that the Empire stopped short of simply annexing it? Ohh...I see....Palpatine really has a soft spot in his heart for those humble, little moisture farmers.

Seeing as how there was no change on the planet after Imperialization, I guess he probably does. Maybe he loves his blue milk and crackers.

All I can say is that you have a unique interpretation of A New Hope. Oh well...

Yes, an interpretation differing from yours...

 

Me: Sounds as though you believe the Empire would do and can do whatever it feels is necessary through the installation of fear.

You: Ya think? Maybe that Death Star was just built for fun.

So do they instill fear? Or don't they? Stop contradicting yourself.

You: We see no fear in the citizens of Tatooine....

Let's pretend you think they do now...I think that's where you are at this point. Yet...despite this imposition of fear, you reason that the Empire would not simply knock off the scurvy racketeers from their pedestals of authority in an effort to dissuade the promotion of smuggling and cartels across the Imperial trade routes. That notion is too far from your depth of reasoning? You would not expect the Hutts in power to find some other means of continuing their questionable monopolies while lying low out of the radar range of Imperial commerce? Or was that why Tarkin wanted the Death Star after all - to take out those stubborn racketeers. We just didn't get to see it come to fruition! "Me matees. I see pirates ahoy. Full speed ahead."

Still, you have the audacity and the compulsion to tell me that my interpretation is incorrect while yours is the right one. Whatever, dude.

 

From Scott:

Local pilots having to worry about Imperial cruisers on a regular basis,

Your response:

We don't know where Han was when he dropped shipment. It wasn't over Tatooine, that's for sure, it would be stupid then. So I guess Han was in Imperial "territory." Unless he's so spineless, he just drops shipment right over Tatooine...

Either way, it?s an obvious concern to the Empire. Why don?t I just cut and paste this little gem of yours from the previous page:

But I'll say that you're going out of your way significantly to MAKE the whole mess make sense.

YOU ARE TOO MUCH, LOCO. COMO SU NOMBRE ESTA INDICANDO, USTED PUEDE SER MUY LOCO EN MI OPINION.

 

Lando said Bespin was out of Imperial jurisdiction, why were people celebrating THERE when the Death Star was destroyed? Hmm?

One word, Loco. FEAR.

HAN: How's the gas mine? Is it paying off for you?

LANDO: Oh, not as well as I'd like. We're a small outpost and not very
self-sufficient. And I've had supply problems of every kind. I've had
labor difficulties?

And, clearly, Lando was not conducting an operation that would be promoting anarchy. Still??

LANDO: So you see, since we're a small operation, we don't fall into
the...uh...jurisdiction of the Empire.

LEIA: So you're part of the mining guild then?

LANDO: No, not actually. Our operation is small enough not to be
noticed...which is advantageous for everybody since our customers are
anxious to avoid attracting attention to themselves.

HAN: Aren't you afraid the Empire's going to find out about this
little operation and shut you down?

LANDO: That's always been a danger looming like a shadow over
everything we've built here. But things have developed that will
insure security. I've just made a deal that will keep the Empire out
of here forever.

Lando, and his people, were constantly reminded of the Imperial presence that could ultimately take away their commerce at any time it chooses. And he was running a legitimate operation! The Hutts were not!

Are you still confused as to why inhabitants of Cloud City would celebrate the demise of the Empire?

(Note that this scenario doesn?t even begin to consider the events that follow TESB. Vader could, indeed, have left a garrison on the planet - a planet that you "claim" to be beyond the jurisdiction of the Empire. Their operation didn?t go unnoticed for much longer though...did it?)

VADER: They must never again leave this city.

LANDO: That was never a condition of our agreement, nor was giving Han
to this bounty hunter!

VADER: Perhaps you think you're being treated unfairly.

LANDO: No.

VADER: Good. It would be unfortunate if I had to leave a garrison
here.

LANDO: This deal's getting worse all the time.

Oh...wait a minute! Maybe they're not so bad after all:

Scott: Stormtroopers in the streets with nobody batting an eyelid, Locals being in league with the stormtroopers, Three Star Destroyers in orbit around the planet.

You: Imperial non-interference in a non-territory.

Yes...how courteous of those chaps, eh? I bet they wiped off all of the counters before they left too. Give it up, Loco.....you're only making yourself look foolish....

 

Don't really want to get involved in this sort of thing, but this part jumped out at me:

Lando said Bespin was out of Imperial jurisdiction, why were people celebrating THERE when the Death Star was destroyed? Hmm?

Did you forget Lando saying "The Empire has taken control of the city"?

 

Me: Sounds as though you believe the Empire would do and can do whatever it feels is necessary through the installation of fear.

You: Ya think? Maybe that Death Star was just built for fun.


So do they instill fear? Or don't they? Stop contradicting yourself.

You: We see no fear in the citizens of Tatooine....

Yes, and I've been saying Tatooine is not an Imperial system. How am I contradicting myself? You seem to be answering yourself more than you are me. lol

Let's pretend you think they do now...I think that's where you are at this point. Yet...despite this imposition of fear, you reason that the Empire would not simply knock off the scurvy racketeers from their pedestals of authority in an effort to dissuade the promotion of smuggling and cartels across the Imperial trade routes. That notion is too far from your depth of reasoning? You would not expect the Hutts in power to find some other means of continuing their questionable monopolies while lying low out of the radar range of Imperial commerce? Or was that why Tarkin wanted the Death Star after all - to take out those stubborn racketeers. We just didn't get to see it come to fruition! "Me matees. I see pirates ahoy. Full speed ahead."

It's obvious the Empire doesn't care about Tatooine, otherwise something would have been done about it. That would explain that Death Star...

Still, you have the audacity and the compulsion to tell me that my interpretation is incorrect while yours is the right one. Whatever, dude.

Hey, you asked, and I was only too happy to oblige.

From Scott:

Local pilots having to worry about Imperial cruisers on a regular basis,

Your response:

We don't know where Han was when he dropped shipment. It wasn't over Tatooine, that's for sure, it would be stupid then. So I guess Han was in Imperial "territory." Unless he's so spineless, he just drops shipment right over Tatooine...


Either way, it?s an obvious concern to the Empire.

Now THAT was desperate. You didn't even bother to debate the point, just latch yours on and then lead into this lovely little attack...

Why don?t I just cut and paste this little gem of yours from the previous page:

But I'll say that you're going out of your way significantly to MAKE the whole mess make sense.


YOU ARE TOO MUCH, LOCO. COMO SU NOMBRE ESTA INDICANDO, USTED PUEDE SER MUY LOCO EN MI OPINION.

Someone earlier on had mentioned your being banned, I can see why. I guess it won't be long.

One word, Loco. FEAR.

You're not going to break out into a lame Darth Maul poem, are you?

HAN: How's the gas mine? Is it paying off for you?

LANDO: Oh, not as well as I'd like. We're a small outpost and not very
self-sufficient. And I've had supply problems of every kind. I've had
labor difficulties?


And, clearly, Lando was not conducting an operation that would be promoting anarchy. Still??


LANDO: So you see, since we're a small operation, we don't fall into
the...uh...jurisdiction of the Empire.

LEIA: So you're part of the mining guild then?

LANDO: No, not actually. Our operation is small enough not to be
noticed...which is advantageous for everybody since our customers are
anxious to avoid attracting attention to themselves.

HAN: Aren't you afraid the Empire's going to find out about this
little operation and shut you down?

LANDO: That's always been a danger looming like a shadow over
everything we've built here. But things have developed that will
insure security. I've just made a deal that will keep the Empire out
of here forever.


Lando, and his people, were constantly reminded of the Imperial presence that could ultimately take away their commerce at any time it chooses. And he was running a legitimate operation! The Hutts were not!

Are you still confused as to why inhabitants o

 

Loco_for_Lucas

Wow, didn't think our little discussion would get so out of hand

I'll tell you what-We'll just agree to dissagree.

These are my two cents about Tatoonie and the Empire.

If the Empire hadn't annexed Tatoonie-it was probabbly considered like a Territory in the Old West. Not really a state, but the Feds could go in there at any time and cause problems if they fell like it.

Either way, its pretty clear that the Empire, if it is the legal govenment of Tatoonie or not, is unchallenged authority when they decide to excersize it or not.

 

I can live with that.

 

Apparently I was never "incorrect" to begin with then either.

I would appreciate an admission from you too, but I'm probably expecting too much from you. Pride seems to blur your better judgment. Yes....yes....a flaw more and more common among bashers.....

Since I first came onto these boards interested in viewing the opinions of fellow Star Wars fans way back when, I have found a ridiculous fixation with bashers who revel and wallow in their own misery over the manner in which the story mismatches with their expectations. Hence, I picked up a username and proceeded to expose it. And if that is not an accurate inference, then there should be no harm in being open to someone else's way of thinking if it provides no contradictions whatsoever to the story being told and actually provides sound, supportive interpretation. Otherwise, switch off the TV (and the monitor) and go read a book (preferably not set within a GFFA). It's that simple.

Loco, no one said everyone has to consider TPM a "classic". (I think Gomer made that abundantly clear a number of times earlier.) Simply allow those who do think it's classic to continue to do so without nitpicking their judgment. Exactly what is your motive in this thread anyway, Loco?

As Bill Shatner once shouted on SNL, "Why don't you all just get a life!" (Now that's classic.)

And with that, he's gone.........

Bow. Exit stage left.

 

You seem to have this personal vendetta against bashers that you're focusing against me for some reason, not that I care; but like I said before, it should make your stay even shorter, seeing as how, according to other members you've been banned. Enjoy your bow, the exit from the stage should be interesting.

 

Oh...and one more thing.

I'd like to share my opinion of OT Tatooine. Bear in mind, this opinion cannot be proven through the films themselves, but they certainly do not contradict them.

I offer this interpretation to the "fans" of Star Wars who may be reading this thread, so they can chew on it. I hope you enjoy it!

********************************************

With the sudden birth of the Empire, the establishment no longer made consideration for borders or jurisdictional law as the Old Republic once did. They instilled fear throughout the galaxy in an effort to establish order out of chaos. As means to that end, they make no reservations in interfering with private affairs and business ventures (ie. Lando's gas mining colony, the Hutts' gangster enterprises, etc...) so long as it furthers their own cause.

Because of this imposition of fear, the Hutts who operated the smuggling routes throughout what once was recognized by the Republic as "Hutt space", were forced to shape up or ship out. Tatooine, despite residing in the Outer Rim far away from Coruscant, was still within interception range of Imperial trade routes to outlying star systems. As a result, the Empire could not justify the Hutts simply having their way in that region. Naboo, for example, despite being the small and out of the way planet that it is, as a member of the Republic Senate, and then by extension the Imperial Senate, would require protection against smugglers and pirates. Anarchy always seems to flourish and find opportunity in transitional periods in history. Therefore, the Empire was required to clean up that region of space dominated by the Hutts.

With the advent of Star Destroyers in nearly everyone's backyard, the breakdown of jurisdictional diplomacy forced the Hutts into hiding. Jabba, being one of these authorities in the crosshairs, was forced to take his shady operations and stick it where the sun don't shine - literally. Up into his dingy palace where he could lock himself away, get fat, and immerse himself in his vices of greed and furthering his powerbase.

Being in the Outer Rim, the Empire most certainly disregarded Tatooine as deserving of representation in the Imperial Senate. The planet was poor. The citizens provided no real value. And the Hutts who control the region are questionable characters at best. Still, the regional Imperial governors had no reservations in working out back-handed deals with the authorities and citizens throughout the planet. They may have gone so far as to force citizens to pay taxes to the institution (or at least to the regional governors) with the justification that the Empire can provide (somewhat) free trade and the promise of stability and order in a region that once revelled in smut, gambling, smuggling, and even slavery! As a result of this "taxation without representation", residents like Luke Skywalker, who professed his hate for the institution, were not an uncommon sight. Despite living "farthest from the bright side of the universe", even they experienced the oppression of the Empire.

Despite significantly cleaning up the Hutt influence throughout the Outer Rim, Imperial agents would conveniently turn the other way - for a price - in order for some enterprises to continue under the table. Hence, Tatooine remained a harbor for scum and villainy throughout the age of the Galactic Empire.

It wasn't until the fall of the Empire, and the birth of the New Republic, before Tatooine would finally undergo a transformation for the better, and its citizens could live freely, without fear, and in peace with its neighbors.

 

>>>it should be obvious they aren't, to where the citizens have the option to get involved or not.

"Empire" does not mean "enforced conscription."

>>>Imperial non-interference in a non-territory. Your point?

My point is that if Imperial troops were walking the streets in a place that wasn't in the Empire, then the local population wouldn't be acting as if they see them every day. Which they do in ANH...

(And I'm not sure that the Jawas would agree that it was non-interference...)

>>>Then Vader would have been working with Jabba, not freelancers, in searching for Han.

What makes you think that Boba Fett is a freelancer, and doesn't work for Jabba? He's with Jabba in ANH, he's in his palace in ROTJ, he's taking Solo to Jabba in ESB...

>>>If Jabba were a "local governor," he'd be working with Vader in the matter of finding Captain Solo. It was obvious they were working independent of each other.

Why? Because at least one of Jabba's bounty hunters is helping Vader?

>>>Hmm, let's see, a place where low-lifes and scum hide out and meet during a time of Civil War, yeah, there's no reason the Empire would be interested in stopping that...

Hmm, let's see, a sarcastic answer with no line of reasoning to back it up, yeah, there is no reason that the Empire would be interested in stopping that...

Again, why would the Empire be bothered about "low-lifes and scum" killing one another off?

>>>Seeing as how I said a non-Imperial planet can have opinions on the Empire without being involved in the war, I would say it is you who are confused; seeing as how you've helped me make my point against Scott. Thanks, I appreciate it. lol

Can you explain to me why Lando sold out his friends to Darth Vader, if Bespin was truly out of the Empire's jurisdiction?

Lando: Our operation is small enough not to be noticed...which is advantageous for everybody since our customers are
anxious to avoid attracting attention to themselves.

HAN: Aren't you afraid the Empire's going to find out about this little operation and shut you down?

LANDO: That's always been a danger looming like a shadow over everything we've built here.

Seems to me that Bespin is far from outside the Empire's jurisdiction, and Lando well knows it...

>>>Seeing as how there was no evidence of an Imperial presence on Bespin in ROTJ, your entire point is moot. Bespin was never under the Empire's jurisdiction, and not only that, they never even stayed behind to enforce their "martial law." Whaddaya know?

So who was in control of Bespin? Here's a clue;

"Attention! This is Lando Calrissian. The Empire has taken control of the city. I advise everyone to leave before more Imperial troops arrive."

 

"I own this city." They have their own connections and forces that control what goes down on their planet, but they don't necessarily have a central government. That's how I've always viewed it, and I don't think it takes away from Jabba's "character".

But that doesn't explain why QGJ would want to, or be able to, take his dispute with Wattoo to the Hutts, unless the Hutts govern rules of gambling, which means they have some legimized power. If they merely were gangesters who bullied the legit government, what would they care it two guys screwed each other over in an independant gambling arrangement?


It's just too bad we saw these films out of order. So many people expect the prequels to be constructed like sequels to the classic trilogy

Actually, they are. That's the problem.


Well what really happened was the way I described it, and this is how you would have done it. I like the way Lucas does it better, because that way the characters don't seem to be added in at the last moment when a plot point requires it.

You mean characters like Han Solo and Lando Calarisen?


This way, when a background character comes into play later on down the road it isn't like "who the hell is that guy?"

Did TPM really introduce you to Bib Fortuna in a way ROJ did not?


Because in reality, they are separate movies with different stories. They each contribute to a whole but we aren't just looking at chapter in a book. A good example of "one big movie" is Matrix Reloaded/Revolutions. They were filmed back to back and simply sliced down the middle.

Man, I don't know about that. Looks like MRev will switch the focus of the story quite a bit. LOTR would have been a better example.


Jabba, no longer a prefect of some sort (probably akin to a state governor), maintained what little power and influence he possessed by forming a godfather-type establishment up in the hills in a fortified dungeon, where fear and the lure of money kept him "in the business".

It's unfortunate that other Star Wars fans have been unable to understand this transition.

Makes sense to me.


Hey. I'm not playing the masochist. You are. If you don't like the story, move on to something else. Do us a favor though: before you whine, understand and appreciate the structure of the saga first. Maybe then we'll serve you some cheese.

That's OK, the PT is serving us plenty of cheese already *ba-boom crash*


Some see it as an inconsistency whilst others choose to make up a story to fill in the inconsistency. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Agreed, but Jabba is hardly one of these. Had there been no inference to his criminal ties in TPM, then suddenly he's a criminal in ANH, then yes that would have been inconsistent, but they at least establish he's already a gangster in TPM so it works on some level.

For inconsistancy - see a thousand generations being changed into a thousand years. (yes, Scott, I have a reply, but I need to proof read it first, it's rather long - !!shock!!)


Lando said Bespin was out of Imperial jurisdiction, why were people celebrating THERE when the Death Star was destroyed? Hmm?

Who says the Empire left after ESB? Why should they after Lando turned on them?

 

"My point is that if Imperial troops were walking the streets in a place that wasn't in the Empire, then the local population wouldn't be acting as if they see them every day. Which they do in ANH... "

Like they did with Obi-wan and his lightsaber? ?

 

I'm going to lock this thread for 24 hours, and then maybe folks will be able to play nice.

Incidentally, "Storm," socks have IPs as well. If you're going to do any "police" work for "Lucas", try to do it civilly, hmm?

 

---

[b]Go-Mer(before):[/b] It's just too bad we saw these films out of order. So many people expect the prequels to be constructed like sequels to the classic trilogy.

[b]Darth Stryphe:[/b] Actually, they are. That's the problem.[hr][/blockquote]No, they are constructed as prequels. The unfortunate thing is that Lucas ended up making them out of order, so a lot of people were expecting them to function as sequels.