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Phantom Menace is now a 'classic'

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by irishfan, Jul 25, 2003.

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  1. Darth-Stryphe

    Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Apr 24, 2001
    Go-Mer(before): It's just too bad we saw these films out of order. So many people expect the prequels to be constructed like sequels to the classic trilogy.

    Darth Stryphe: Actually, they are. That's the problem.

    No, they are constructed as prequels.


    The prequels which make constant reference and tributes to the "sequels"? You mean those "prequels"? ;)

    Anyway, I promised Scott an epic lenght reply that undoubtedly only he will read, if that. So here it is, full of typos that will undoubedly make me look foolish (the typos, not the post, the post is quite good!), but then I'm used to making a fool of myself with typos, so...


    Checkmate.

    That's not checkmate, here, let me know you--
    *moves piece to safety*


    (Opening clarification: You will hear me a few times say in this argument that nation <> geography. I understand that it is physically impossible for a nation to exist outside of geography, all nations are within geographic borders. So when I mean nation is not geography, I mean the word in use is not of the same meaning.)


    ?For a thousand years, the Jedi were guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic.

    "For a thousand years, the Jedi were guardians of peace and justice in Italy."

    Which sounds fine to me?


    Well, I have a rebuff for this, only before I can post it, I have to rectify some confusion. What are saying is the "Old Republic"? A nation, or a geographic region?

    I'm going to continue the argument with this assumption: You believe Palp was talking about a nation (by name) and Ben about a geographical region (by name).

    >>>You must remember, Italy isn't the name of the government. For example, Italy has been around for - uh - a long time. Used to, the government was called "The Roman Republic" then "Roman Empire" then "Holy Roman Empire" and so on.

    Not true. For the last 100 years, ?Italy? has been the name of the political body as well as the physical body.


    Well, there is no law of scient that says it is physically impossible to name a government soley after its regional name. So, you could call the government Italy naming it after the region, but this rarely happens. In fact, I'd want to research for myself that Italy doesn't have another proper name before I conceed that point. Off the top of my head, I don't know, with certain, any nation that has the proper name exactly the same as the geographic name.


    But the simple fact is that you wouldn?t say that a family that?s lived in [the country that came to be known as] Italy for 2000 years has lived in the [Old] Roman Empire for 2000 years. You?d say that they?ve lived in Italy for 2000 years.

    Right, if the goverments had changed. If the Roman Empire was still around, it would likely be that you would say "Roman Empire." Though you could say geography.


    Funny- The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language recognised ?America?, and defines it as ?The united states.?

    America is essentially short for USA. There is no geographical area called America, there is North America, Central and South America. So really that was a bad example for me to use.

    So, when I recently went to the Republic of Ireland, I wasn?t in a physical area of land called ?The Republic of Ireland?, but in a governmental body?

    Nations of course exist within geography (where else would they exist?) so that is a mute point. The point is, what is he talking about, a place or a nation? I say nation, thus the inconsistancy. Palpatine is undeniably talking about a nation.


    A place name does not take the definite article if it is a proper noun, because the very fact it is a proper noun (ie. a name) implies that it is unique. You would no more say ?The Scott3eyez? or ?The Darth Stryphe? as you would ?The Italy.?

    Exactly - Except you're forgetting he did use the word "The". This isn't done when referring to people or places (geography). Example, no "the" China, but there is "The" People's Republic of China.


    As I
     
  2. AdamBertocci

    AdamBertocci Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2002
    Holy jumpin' gundarks, that's the longest original post I've seen in my entire life. :eek:


    Rick McCallum loves you!
     
  3. Go-Mer-Tonic

    Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 1999
    [blockquote] >
     
  4. Loco_for_Lucas

    Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 2002
    Nope, it's because Lucas MADE them out of order.
     
  5. Go-Mer-Tonic

    Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 1999
    Exactly. Once you realize that, everything else is a peice of cake.
     
  6. Darth-Stryphe

    Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Apr 24, 2001
    Adam, you should see some of Quix's old posts, back in the days of Yore.


    No, the ones that contain things the "sequels" later refer to.

    You mean the "sequels" that were in the theater referring to "prequels" that were years away from being written? Those "sequels"? ;)
     
  7. Go-Mer-Tonic

    Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 1999
    Yeah those are the ones.
     
  8. Lukecash

    Lukecash Jedi Master star 4

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    Jun 6, 2001
    Heh.....I leave for vacation and THIS one is still going on!

    Its one of those things about writing, I suppose. You really don't have to do it in order...but most people think in a linear way. When Hemmingway wrote "The Old Man and the Sea"" He did not write the first chapter until he was finished with the book. That way he could have all the nifty allusions and metiphores, forshadowing and the like in the begining of the book.

    The Hobbit was changed by the Lord of the Rings-something I did not know about until many years after reading the stories.

    The problem with the OT is this...How are they going to explaint the OBVIOUS Han/Luke/Liea love triangle that existed in ANH and ESB? The PT does have one advantage over the OT...no possiblility of marrying your sister.

    Later I will explain how the PT and the OT symbolism cross references eachother. Thus making a complete package.
     
  9. Quixotic-Sith

    Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 22, 2001
    Adam, you should see some of Quix's old posts, back in the days of Yore.

    Ah, good times... good times...

    Back when I would begin a post with "Volume 1"...
     
  10. Obi_Frans

    Obi_Frans Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2003
    The PT does have one advantage over the OT...no possiblility of marrying your sister.

    "from now on has nightmares of Owen passionately kissing Anakin to make Padme jealous"
     
  11. Go-Mer-Tonic

    Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 1999
    Over the weekend, I watched ESB and TPM, and TPM was better!
     
  12. Darth-Stryphe

    Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Apr 24, 2001
  13. winter_chili

    winter_chili Jedi Master star 5

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    Nov 6, 2002
    haha, yeah sometimes ill have such a happy time with my phantom' and esb is such a downer..
     
  14. Loco_for_Lucas

    Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 2002
    TPM isn't a downer? The Jedi Master dies at the end, then his corpse is burned in front of a child, and the Sith never get their just desserts. How is that "happy?"
     
  15. Cometgreen

    Cometgreen Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2002
    So...you're saying it IS a dark movie? What's everyone's problem then? :p

    Cometgreen, who finds ESB to be a better film, but watches TPM more frequently
     
  16. Loco_for_Lucas

    Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 15, 2002
    MY problem was never with it not being dark enough. MY problem was its stupid characters. :p
     
  17. Darth-Stryphe

    Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Apr 24, 2001
    And the pacing.
     
  18. Loco_for_Lucas

    Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 15, 2002
    And the plotting.
     
  19. hawk

    hawk Jedi Knight star 5

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    May 3, 2000
    And the boredom.
     
  20. Quixotic-Sith

    Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 22, 2001
    And the pages of off-topic posts.
     
  21. AdamBertocci

    AdamBertocci Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Feb 3, 2002
    And the free beer. Quix is buying, guys.

    ;)


    Anyway -- the wonderfully subtlety of TPM is that it is a dark movie DISGUISED as a light movie! This is expressed perfectly in the end music -- the Emperor's theme disguised as happy Gungan parté tunes.

    Remember, kids, it's The PHANTOM Menace. If it was The Obvious Menace, Ric Olié would have had a lot more screen time. ;)



    Rick McCallum loves you!
     
  22. Quixotic-Sith

    Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 22, 2001
    And the free beer. Quix is buying, guys.

    Only if I get the job with the CDC, Adam. ;)
     
  23. redxavier

    redxavier Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2003
    Hmm... TPM a classic?

    Seems the criteria has gotten lower over the years.

     
  24. Go-Mer-Tonic

    Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 1999
    Guys, great news. TPM has just surpassed Citizen Kane as the best movie to date!

    How do you like them apples?
     
  25. Loco_for_Lucas

    Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 2002
    *sees a pig soaring through the air* ;)
     
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