Phantom Menace is now a 'classic'

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by irishfan, Jul 25, 2003.

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  1. royalguard96 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 5
    TPM will always be a classic to me. Other people's opinions are meaningless in forming my opinions of what I do and don't like.
  2. Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2001
    star 6
    Hmm... TPM a classic?

    Seems the criteria has gotten lower over the years.


    LOL!


    Guys, great news. TPM has just surpassed Citizen Kane as the best movie to date!

    Ha-ha! Only in your mind, my very young apprentice. (Wait, did I just quote AOTC?)
  3. AdamBertocci Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2002
    star 7
    I never thought Citizen Kane was the greatest to begin with...


    AND NOW, OPINIONS OF ADAM

    Just for fun I'm visiting the AFI's list of 100 best movies and pointing out which ones I actually LIKED:

    The Godfather (some great lines)
    The Wizard of Oz (fun although not at all true to the book; great dancing)
    Singin' in the Rain (infectious fun, amazing dancing)
    Star Wars (heard of it? ;) )
    All About Eve (some good lines)
    The African Queen (a must for all Han-Leia romance fans)
    ET (affecting for all the reasons you've heard)
    Dr. Strangelove (hilarious and important)
    Annie Hall (beautiful and funny, Woody's best?)
    Taxi Driver (very engrossing, gotta love Scorsese's cameo)
    Jaws (freakin' amazing)
    Raiders of the Lost Ark (diverting fun)
    Forrest Gump (beautiful and clever)
    American Graffiti (best. teen comedy. ever.)
    Rocky (powerful and surprisingly deep)
    Patton (George C. Scott = the man)
    Pulp Fiction (so quotable)


    DISLIKED:
    Citizen Kane (boring, Orson Welles can't act)
    Schindler's List (sorry, no *movie* has really hit the horrors of WW2/Holocaust home for me... a couple of books maybe... also, Liam Neeson overacts)
    2001 (unspeakably boring, nice music though)
    Raging Bull (gets repetitive, good performances though)
    Apocalypse Now (Brando ruins it)
    The Sound of Music (irritating to depths that Jar Jar could not match on his best day)
    Easy Rider (good opening, interesting bits with Nicholson, but gets repetitive after a while)

    All the rest I either didn't see, or don't have a strong opinion on.


    Rick McCallum loves you!
  4. TadjiStation Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2001
    star 4
    Raiders of the Lost Ark (diverting fun).

    "Diverting Fun" = A strong opinion?

    Adam, "diverting fun" is a term best used to describe "Weekend at Bernies", not the greatest action film EVER MADE!!!!

    :p

    BTW, TPM is a classic. It's a classic case of a good idea gone wrong. :D
  5. AdamBertocci Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2002
    star 7
    For the record, my favorite action movies are... well... it depends what you classify as an action movie.

    Start from the top and work down. The first "action movie" you spot of these possibilities is my favorite action movie.

    SW
    The Fifth Element
    Flash Gordon (1980)
    Batman
    Super Mario Bros.
    Armageddon
    Spider-Man
    Indiana Jones


    Rick McCallum loves you!
  6. gezvader28 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2003
    star 4
    Adam-
    2001 (unspeakably boring, nice music though)

    :eek:
    Adam, I.... :eek:
    I don't know what to say to that except :eek:

    Okay, I have to ask - which films do you think are great?

    g
  7. Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2001
    star 6
    [vader]I find the lack of on-topicness... disturbing.[/vader]

    But since I feel the peer pressure to be off topic, too...


    Citizen Kane (boring, Orson Welles can't act)
    Schindler's List (sorry, no *movie* has really hit the horrors of WW2/Holocaust home for me... a couple of books maybe... also, Liam Neeson overacts)


    [face_shocked] Like G, I, too, am speechless. However, being speechless doesn't keep me from typing so - WHAT DO YOU MEAN ORSON WELLS CAN'T ACT!?! And honestly, if a film were to get closer to the horrors of the Holocast, it would be rated X.

  8. royalguard96 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 5
    Hehe, I enjoyed Flash Gordon too. Sci-fi cheese at its best.

    I think one distinction that needs to be made, particularly about TPM, is the difference between someone's favorite movie as opposed to one that person thinks is the best according to their standards.

    TPM is one of my 5 favorite movies, but I don't think it's one of the 5 best I've seen.
  9. gezvader28 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2003
    star 4
    royalguard-
    TPM is one of my 5 favorite movies, but I don't think it's one of the 5 best I've seen.

    So ..... you seem to be saying that TPM is not a classic, is that what you're saying?

    g
  10. royalguard96 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 5
    So ..... you seem to be saying that TPM is not a classic, is that what you're saying?

    Uh, no that's not what I'm saying.

    TPM is a classic to me, because it's one of my favorites. That's just by my standards, which I know aren't shared by anyone else. A classic movie to you might not be one to me, and vice versa.
  11. gezvader28 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2003
    star 4
    TPM is a classic to me, because it's one of my favorites. That's just by my standards, which I know aren't shared by anyone else. A classic movie to you might not be one to me, and vice versa.

    I don't understand you, you previously said that:

    I think one distinction that needs to be made, particularly about TPM, is the difference between someone's favorite movie as opposed to one that person thinks is the best according to their standards.
    TPM is one of my 5 favorite movies, but I don't think it's one of the 5 best I've seen.


    So you have favorite movies according to your standards and best movies according to your standards, but the ones you consider best aren't classics - ?

    What distinction are you making?

    g
  12. winter_chili Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2002
    star 5
    Fifth Element was great, first movie i bought on dvd
  13. royalguard96 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 5
    Well by my own standards, TPM is one of the 10 best films I've seen. To me, that makes it a classic by definition. But it also happens to be one of my 10 favorite also.

    The X-Files movie is one of my favorites but I don't consider it a classic.

    But I would consider Saving Private Ryan one of the 10 best films I've seen (which makes it a classic) but isn't one of my 10 favorites.

    Really it's all semantics anyway.
  14. gezvader28 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2003
    star 4
    royalguard-
    Well by my own standards, TPM is one of the 10 best films I've seen.

    But a couple of posts ago you said:

    TPM is one of my 5 favorite movies, but I don't think it's one of the 5 best I've seen.

    So... ?[face_plain]

    But I would consider Saving Private Ryan one of the 10 best films I've seen (which makes it a classic) but isn't one of my 10 favorites.

    So some of your "best" films you count as classics and some of your "favorite" films you count as classics.... er (scratches head) huh?

    Really it's all semantics anyway.

    Well I only ask 'cos you were the one who said it was important to make the distinction between "favorite" and "best".


    g
  15. AdamBertocci Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2002
    star 7
    Re: Orson Welles, I think he has a great voice and a lot of presence, but I just think he overdoes it the whole way through.



    gez -- glad you asked! Here are some.
    Note that these are my opinion, but I will NOT be listing movies I think are great "just 'cause I like them" -- I'm talking about movies I think really ARE great, intrinsically (as close as you can get in a subjective medum!)... movies I would teach a film class on if I could.
    These are my "best", not JUST "favorite" -- I've left favorites (like the 1980 Flash Gordon, heh heh) off.


    PERFECT MOVIES
    Ghostbusters - funniest movie ever made... great high-concept work... makes you care about the characters and not just laugh when they tell jokes... you get involved in the plot and not just the funny bits... wonderful performances... also, great bonus stuff like effects and song
    Star Wars ANH - Emotionally involving without losing the wacky escapades typical of the Flash Gordon adventures it pays loving homage to... etc. etc. etc.... I think you've all seen my posts :p
    Dogma - highly thought-provoking and intelligent when it wants to be... smart and funny and even faith-affirming
    The Fellowship of the Ring - a visual masterpiece and a wonderful adaptation

    OTHER GREATS

    Attack of the Clones - The most visually impressive movie I've ever seen -- every frame is a work of art. Amazing battle, incredible performances from Ewan/Hayden. I think you've all seen my posts ;)
    South Park: Bigger Longer and Uncut - One of the most surprisingly intelligent comedies out there, a masterful critique of censorship and thought-policing in the form of a masterful musical lampoon. Plus the "Uncle ****a" song.
    Monty Python and the Holy Grail - Masterful comedy that few have matched, but everyone will quote
    The Fifth Element - visually stunning at every turn, imaginative and deftly silly... like an ANH for the 90s, though not quite as good
    Being John Malkovich - okay, so it's not for everybody, but... great dark comedy, one of the most imaginative and fascinating concepts in years... the ending will haunt you for ages
    The Exorcist - scariest. movie. ever. ... also, great adaptation (if only it could have been longer...)
    Dark City - again, not for everyone. Mindblowing and involving. Think Matrix without kung fu or Keanu Reeves, but WITH Richard O'Brien. Can't miss.
    Run Lola Run - Experimental film need not be pretentious or incomprehensible. It can be flat-out kick-butt fun. This is proof.
    Brazil - Amazing designs, strong (if overly broad and dark) commentary on potential dystopia ahead, the greatest ending shot I've ever seen
    Unbreakable - A total reinvention of the potential of a 'comic book' movie. Good performances, very clever concept.
    Back to the Future - Just a great high-concept comedy with very smart, competent people at the helm
    Little Shop of Horrors - best stage-musical-to-movie adapting job I've ever seen
    The Nightmare Before Christmas - Absolutely beautiful, wonderfully weird.


    That enough for ya? :p


    Rick McCallum loves you!
  16. Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2001
    star 6
    I think one distinction that needs to be made, particularly about TPM, is the difference between someone's favorite movie as opposed to one that person thinks is the best according to their standards.

    Yeah, I get what you're saying and I feel the same way (not about TPM, but about other movies), but I'm not sure I follow your logic as to TPM being a classic. Just because a movie is a personal classic (to me) or a cult classic doesn't make it a cultural or national classic. Which kind of classic are we talking here?

    EDIT - Opps! copy/pasted the wrong text. All better now.
  17. hawk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2000
    star 5
    also, Liam Neeson overacts

    Thanks Adam! I agree completely. That scene where he has the ring that he can trade for one more life is sad but he is so bad there. He won an Oscar because of the subject material NOT because of his acting. Ditto for Adrian Brody. Gary Oldman puts them to shame in everything he has done.
  18. hawk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2000
    star 5
    SPeaking of great films, anyone seen Kill Bill? That was amazing!
  19. redxavier Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2003
    star 4
    Hell yeah!

    It's ggggggrrrrrreat! (you have to be from the UK to get that one)

    Replacing Phone Booth as the best film I've seen this year (at the cinema)

  20. hawk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2000
    star 5
    It could possibly be the best film I have seen in years. Top 50 easily. Every second was entertaining. Best bit was the fight in the snow. It was like watching a live cartoon!
  21. AdamBertocci Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2002
    star 7
    It was like watching a live cartoon!

    Oddly enough some people say that about the PT as if it were an awful thing to do. ;)


    Rick McCallum loves you!
  22. hawk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2000
    star 5
    Yes when you are intending for the opposte effect. I don't complain about Toy Story looking like a cartoon either. :)
  23. TadjiStation Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2001
    star 4
    He won an Oscar because of the subject material NOT because of his acting. Ditto for Adrian Brody.

    Interesting you'd say that, because for the 2 hours and 45 minutes that proceed the "ring/more people" scene, he's actually quite fantastic, turning in a quietly commanding performance that's all about subtlety. Yet, I agree with you concerning the last scene, but, in order to be fair, you have to hold Spielberg just as responsible for that general misfire as we do Lucas for the non-acting in the PT.

    I've not seen "The Pianist" yet, though I'm told it's excellent. Therefore, I've nothing to contribute concerning Adrien Brody.

    Gary Oldman puts them to shame in everything he has done.

    Yeah, especially his ham-fisted turn in "The Fifth Element"! [face_laugh] C'Mon, you gotta admit he was way over the top in that one! :D

    Oldman's best performance (for me) = either as Drexel in "True Romance" or as the title character in "Bram Stoker's Dracula".

    My $.02

    :)
  24. Lukecash Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 4
    Okay, I gotta take a few of you to task here.

    Citizen Kane-Adam is a classic because many of the editing/film and story tequniques were used for the first time in that movie. The fake Newsreal capsulizing the Life of Kane for the audience, thus they can understand the importance of his story in the movie. the sweeping edits, paning itno buildings, were done for the first time in the movie.

    Orson Wells didn't over act in the film-he played a man who live life over-the top. He had very many moments of subtlety in the movie...something that was beyond many actors at that time.


    The Fifth Element.

    I'm sorry...easily one of the overrated movies I've ever seen. Pretentious and outlandish to a fault. The great visualizations and special effects...as well as fun moments from Bruce Willis and Gary Olsmand does NOT make a great film. Cris Tuker was far mor annyoing as a character than Jar Jar could ever be. And the "ball of evil" coming to attack was probabbly the worse idea I've ever heard.

  25. AdamBertocci Manager

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    Feb 3, 2002
    star 7
    Lukecash - I recognize that. (Also, you left out "overlapping dialogue" -- another one of its firsts.) I appreciate the historical value... just don't find it entertaining.



    As for The Fifth Element -- I LOVE THAT MOVIE. I'm not going to say it's a GOOD movie, but it's definitely a FUN movie.

    A total knockout visually, and so unbelievably over-the-top and obnoxiously silly. I just giggle the whole way through it.

    Quite possibly the most utterly insane movie I've ever seen.* :D [face_laugh]

    * closest contender: the 1980 Flash Gordon



    Rick McCallum loves you!
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