Phantom Menace is now a 'classic'

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by irishfan, Jul 25, 2003.

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  1. -_-_-_-_-_- Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2002
    star 6
    Kill Bill was great.


    TPM is one of my 5 favorite movies, but I don't think it's one of the 5 best I've seen.

    Since when can a film only be a classic when it's in the list of someone's or the general consensus' top five? If that were the case, there would be few "classics" and those of which everyone considered the top five would be debated to no conclusion. It's all about personal opinion basically. The best films IMO are those which the director portrays his vision and in the process, the audience indentifies with it whether it be through characters, plot, or the score.

    And why must we always twist around the words of others to no end, in an attempt to find something more to debate about?
  2. Scott3eyez Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 1, 2001
    star 4
    I'd just like to be the first to say that Kill Bill is the movie TPM should have been.

    8-}

    Seriously though- the way Kill Bill set up the characters and the world they live in, keeping the film moving along at all times, setting up the story so that you want to know what happens next, and yet having virtually no more actual plot than most people already knew about before the credits rolled (ie. "girl wants revenge for being put in a coma") was something pretty special.

    Also, I think it's a bit of a filmmaking first; there have been plenty of films which have been successful enough to spawn sequels- either original films (eg. Alien, Lethal Weapon, Revenge of the Nerds... the list goes on and on) or spin offs from a different medium (ie. Star Trek, Superman, Batman, etc.)

    Although films have been made with guaranteed sequels before (eg. Empire Strikes Back, Matrix Reloaded, Fellowship of the Ring), they have all (as far as I know) been on the back of something- either a previous sucessful film (Star Wars, Matrix) or an existing fanbase (LOTR.)

    Although Tarantino's reputation obviously had pretty much everything to do with being able to make the films in the first place, is Kill Bill the first truly original film to have been made with a sequel already in the bag?
  3. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Bubba Ho-Tep is the movie TPM should have been.
  4. rpeugh Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2002
    star 4
    And The Texas Chainsaw Massacre is the film that episode 3 should be. (Im serious about that to some extent.)
  5. Scott3eyez Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 1, 2001
    star 4
    Man- that is a twisted film...

    #Remembers ending.#


    #Shudders#
  6. gezvader28 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2003
    star 4
    (((royalguard-TPM is one of my 5 favorite movies, but I don't think it's one of the 5 best I've seen.

    _-_-_-_- Since when can a film only be a classic when it's in the list of someone's or the general consensus' top five? If that were the case, there would be few "classics" and those of which everyone considered the top five would be debated to no conclusion. It's all about personal opinion basically.
    )))

    ?[face_plain]
    But royalguard thinks it is a classic, so what's your problem?

    And why must we always twist around the words of others to no end, in an attempt to find something more to debate about?

    What are you talking about?

    g
  7. Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2001
    star 6
    I want to go on record and say (yet again), I'm seriously worried about the current times and culture if this many people find Kill Bill to be a "good" movie. And I'm not joking, no silly face icon here.
    [face_plain]

    And on a lighter note - what Lukecash said about Citizen Kane. :)
  8. AdamBertocci Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2002
    star 7
    Ree Yees - Well, KB was originally filmed as one movie, and came about as a movie with a sequel due to studio demands... so I dunno if it's gonna get that distinction either...



    Rick McCallum loves you!
  9. Lukecash Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 4
    Darth Strype

    About what you said about Kill Bill....I agree as well.

    While I will admit to bing entertained by the movie...and the acting was good. It was not the great cinematic movie event that everyone made it out to be.

    Let face it. It got a free ride because of Q.T name on it. It dropped of 46% in BO this week, but people are saying" Oh that's pretty strong. showing" TPM didn't have that big of a drop off and it was being called a failure.

    But Lukecash, but Kill Bill and TPM are homages to theire respected genres
    There is a difference between what Lucas and Tarrintino did in terms of their homages to the respect genres. Tarantio blantanly ripped off scenes, motifs and dialog from the old movies of a specific time.

    Lucas took inspiration, but told his own story. He did not rely on the "buck Rogers" type of spaceships-but created funtionally looking spaceships. And Lucas didn't draw from one era or genre of film making...he drew from MANY.

    The Phanotom menence is a classic in this way: While you may be able to see where George Lucas got the inspiration from, there is NO denying that he puts his own stamp on the final product so that it becomes part of Star Wars universe.
  10. darthsidious32 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2000
    star 4
    Irishfan, I agree with everything you said in your original post.

    And I also regard TPM a classic in my eyes. The reason being because during the time it came out, it was such an exciting time. For some, it only lasted until opening night because of their disappointment. For others, it still continues.

    Every time I watch TPM, I think back to the Taco Bell, Pizza Hut, and KFC commercials and merch that revolved around the film. I think back to the fact that I couldn't go anywhere without seeing something promoting the new film. The pepsi cans, the people camping out to see the movie, hunting down the newest Episode I toy, etc. It was just such a great time then.

    It's too bad that this hyped it up "too much" for some people to the point where they made TPM look like the second coming of Christ(then they got disappointed - gee, I wonder why?), because I personally enjoyed the hype. In fact, I consider the hype a part of the movie. I think the film stands on its own, but the hype just made it all the more fun.

    So that's why TPM is a classic in my eyes. It reminds me of a great time in my life, just as the OT reminds me of my childhood.

    AOTC has yet to become a classic. I'm sure it will in due time. And you're right about the next generation loving these films better. Most kids I know make no distinction between the old ones and the new ones. It's all one saga in the making to them, and it'll continue that way when they grow up because that's how they always remembered them as. They're just happy to be a part of film history in the making. It's too bad some people these days can't do that.
  11. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    I agree it was like Christmas, only it lasted a whole year.
  12. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    You sure said it Go-Mer. It was like Halloween, Thanksgiving, Christmas, and Easter all rolled into one!
  13. AdamBertocci Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2002
    star 7
    It was like Halloween, Thanksgiving, Christmas, and Easter all rolled into one!

    Yep. At my first TPM screening I dressed in a scary costume and ate some candy, then had turkey for the second course and watched football.
    Then Jesus got born and all of a sudden died and came back to life.

    Unfortunately, with all this going on, I couldn't concentrate on the movie and I didn't get to see it until the next Monday.


    It wasn't bad. Needed more Jesus though.


    [face_devil]


    Rick McCallum loves you!
  14. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    And it had a little too much bunny rabbit for my tastes, but nothing's perfect.
  15. anidanami124 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 6
    I want to go on record and say (yet again), I'm seriously worried about the current times and culture if this many people find Kill Bill to be a "good" movie.

    I have to agree with Stryphe on this. I wil also say well I like TPM. The only SW in my opinoin that can ever be called classic is the Star Wars movie form 1977. ;)
  16. -JarJarBinks- Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 2
    Classic then, classic now, classic forever. Hell, it was a classic before it was even released, as far as I'm concerned. It's my favorite of all the saga, and people will still be viewing and enjoying it long after every "basher" on this board is dead and gone. Hate falters, but love endures.
  17. Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2002
    star 5
    Ironic to see that in a post filled with hate...
  18. -JarJarBinks- Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 2
    "Ironic to see that in a post filled with hate..."

    How so? I'm simply stating a fact. Love of Phantom Menace WILL outlive all its haters.

    Perhaps that's what makes them so bitter, deep down: The knowledge that they can never "win"; can never stop others from loving what they hate so much?
  19. TadjiStation Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2001
    star 4
    I want to go on record and say (yet again), I'm seriously worried about the current times and culture if this many people find Kill Bill to be a "good" movie. And I'm not joking, no silly face icon here.

    Without getting too seriously off topic about this, I have to say that I agree with your worries. Films have been getting more and more violent over the years, with a certain emphasis placed upon hyperviolence (particularly in Kill Bill) as a means of telling a story.

    Understand, however, that this has been going on for years, Stryphe, not just recently. Films that have become literal and critical "classics" have been pushing boundaries since film became a medium for storytelling.

    Some of the most graphically violent films that are well regarded have aged 15-30 years. "RoboCop" (1987) and "The Exorcist" (1973) come to mind, to say nothing of the "violence as ballet/pre John Woo" of the westerns and dramas of Sam Peckinpah: "Straw Dogs" (1971) and "The Wild Bunch" (1970). In many cases, these films are noted specifically for their graphic violence, and often praised for their daring.

    Further, in the early to mid 1980's, many films specifically pushed graphic violence to new limits, as a way of showing off the latest in latex makeup and special effects technology. George Romero's "...of the Dead" films are perfect examples of this, coming out between 1978 and 1985. John Carpenter's "The Thing" (1982) has to be one of the goriest mainsteam films to come out, period.

    Tarantino's emphasis on hyperviolence stems directly from his own filmic influences, which are specifically Anime and spaghetti westerns. Indeed, the Anime homage in Kill Bill, as a means of giving backstory to Lucy Liu's character, was very effective, in my mind. She became violent by witnessing her parents murdered in an extremely violent fashion. She became desensitized by people who were already that way. That in and of itself is dramatic commentary, and lends the film weight.

    As to the issue of Tarantino's blatant rip off's of this that or the other versus Lucas' cinematic brilliance, enough has been exposed on these boards to know that Lucas is just as capable (and guilty) of doing the very same thing. Further, most directors do this at one time or another (Brian DePalma has made a career out of it) so who cares? It's a tired argument that does nothing to further the discussion at hand.

    Finally, if these things bother you Stryphe, do what you need to to promote other things. Also, take a closer look at the ratings boxes these films display in TV ads or posters. The MPAA now requires that studios give a brief description of the content of the films so that people know what they're getting themselves into. Kill Bill's reads: "Strong bloody violence, language and some sexual content." To me, that's fairly descriptive. ;)

    An once of prevention...

    Best,

    Tadji :)
  20. JohnWilliams00 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 29, 2002
    star 4
    How so? I'm simply stating a fact. Love of Phantom Menace WILL outlive all its haters.

    And hatred and indifference towards TPM will live just as long, even when every single gusher today is pushing up daisies. What's yousa point?

    As for Kill Bill, some of the violence was really strong, especially the during the anime. But I still liked the movie overall.
  21. Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2002
    star 5
    Exactly, JW00. The truth about TPM shall be known, future generations will see it for its shoddy work and writing when all gushers are dead and buried.

    See? Aren't I hateful? :D
  22. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Nah, as always, good will prevail, because evil is dumb.
  23. -JarJarBinks- Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 2
    "And hatred and indifference towards TPM will live just as long"

    That's where you'd be incorrect. As I said: Hate falters, but love endures.
  24. JohnWilliams00 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 29, 2002
    star 4
    Well it sure didn't help Plan 9 From Outer Space.
  25. TadjiStation Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2001
    star 4
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