Phantom Menace is now a 'classic'

Fact is, it's still too early to determine exactly how TPM is going to be remembered. I have a hunch, however, that a few years down the road, once the media attention has died off, people will reassess the saga as a whole and determine that every film in it is a classic.

 

Fact is, it's still too early to determine exactly how TPM is going to be remembered.

for once we agree!

 

Well, I just watched it again, and it is in fact a classic.

 

how do you know most of those with a positive review think it is a classic?


Im not talking about what the reviewers think im talking about people who like it in general

 

WOW! It's nice to know that TPM attained "classic" status faster than ANH did.

I thought a SW film needed about 4 theatrical releases & 5 or 6 video re-releases to attain this milestone.

Is it classic?
Let's re-release it in about 20 years and judge the reaction and the box office from that before making a final decision. Hmmm?

 

Loco: "Star Wars is more than just those six movies"

Primarily speaking its not and from the point of view of being a fan of film, its kind of pointless. Make some sense Loco. Thats the last I want to say on the fan thing because simply I don't give a hooter. However, you should not be so touchy. Its not my fault that you began to question your fan status!

Loco: "Riiiiight, because there were legions of fans camping out in anticipation of the sequel to Universal Soldier."

Oh but I thought high anticipation level had nothing to do with the way it was criticised. PS. Only one "i" in "right".

Loco: "which film was nominated for the Raspberry?"

Considering that the "razzies" have absolutely zero respectability - who cares?

Evazan: "not most, but since its on some, we can say many people think its a dud."

Since its on very few and NOT on far more does that also show how many people think it wasn't a dud?

Just shows you how stupid "bashers" get about these films. I don't even think its a classic but these guys come on to tear it to pieces - and very poorly at that.

 

Primarily speaking its not and from the point of view of being a fan of film, its kind of pointless. Make some sense Loco. Thats the last I want to say on the fan thing because simply I don't give a hooter.

Like I said, you're picking and choosing what you want to be a fan of. By your own logic, you should be a fan of the majority of Star Wars EU as it's a part of the Star Wars over-all story. If you want to run away from your own logic, you can do that too, seeing as how you really didn't think it all the way through.

However, you should not be so touchy. Its not my fault that you began to question your fan status!

I'm perfectly comfortable with my status, thank you very much; I'm not the one creating standards to reinforce elitist views. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Oh but I thought high anticipation level had nothing to do with the way it was criticised.

It has to do with the way it's looked on afterwards as a disappointment. The relentless beating it got from critics and fans AFTER its high expectations make it a huge disappointment.

PS. Only one "i" in "right".

By the way, it's "hoot" not "hooter." Just thought I'd point that out.

Considering that the "razzies" have absolutely zero respectability - who cares?

Convenient, they aren't "respectable," why? Because they gave the Star Wars prequels fifteen nominations combined, including the prestigious Worst Film nominations. They have the same credibility as the sources in your Google search, you just don't "respect" them, so you don't take their input as reasonible. By that rationale, the bunch of newspapers and magazines you referred to have zero respectability as they aren't high profile enough for us to care, while the Razzies are high profile in comparison to Joe Schmoe from some radio station in Tuscon who gave TPM three and a half chili peppers.

 

Well, I just watched it again, and it is in fact a classic.

Well Go-Mer, if you took the time to watch it again, it must be.

Case closed.




Clonetrooper,
Loco: "Star Wars is more than just those six movies"
Primarily speaking its not

OK, I've got two people in my FF who aren't big on the movies. However, they love EU. They read just about every book and think EU is the coolest.

So, what series are they fans of - then?

 

It seems to me that it's only the most rabid Star Wars fans who hate TPM and are still going on about how they hate it four years later.

The majority of people in the world aren't Star Wars fans, and of those non-fans, there were people who liked the film, people who disliked the film, and people whose opinion of the film was somewhere in the middle. So I don't believe it is true to say that TPM is the most hated film of all time. That's probably true as far as the most zealous fans are concerned. But I don't think the vast majority of people (ie non-fans) hate the film as DrEvazan thinks.

EDIT: Just noticed DrEvazan's sig. I would like to ask the people who hated TPM and AOTC to boycott Episode III. Please spare the rest of us from the inevitable complaints about how much you hated the film. Thank you.

 

There are 2 aspects of the legacy of TPM:

1) The Return of Star Wars: Probably in the top 5 of biggest moments in cinema. For such a storied, legendary, ground-breaking franchise to return after an almost 20 year layoff was extraordinary. The excitement, anticipation and build-up for it was unprecedented. It was a part of what can make entertainment so great and how it enhances culture and a nation to revel in something that is good, cinematic art. The lines outside theaters were celebrated. It dominated the media. It was not hype, it was genuine exuberance. TPM needed no hype. It was a force unto itself.

Ahhh...I will never forget those days.

2) Jar Jar Binks-- The eternal symbol of the movie will be the most hated character in all of cinema. Jar Jar represents TPM in a very good way: there are some who embrace the campy, goofiness as somehow uplifting the saga while others think it brought the entire franchise to new depths of crappiness. The backlash to Jar Jar was unlike anything ever in cinema. He embodied the part of the TPM viewership that felt GL's decision, direction and overall skill had just diminished to minimal levels. Thus the saga would never be perceived the same.

Jar Jar is also a good a starting point as any for the origin of the gusher/basher wars.

 

But I don't think the vast majority of people (ie non-fans) hate the film as DrEvazan thinks.

never said that. the rest of your post goes far in showing why TPM is not a classic though: The majority of people in the world aren't Star Wars fans, and of those non-fans, there were people who liked the film, people who disliked the film, and people whose opinion of the film was somewhere in the middle.

hardly a description of a classic film.

thanks for your support on the boycott. the number of people who will skip episode III grows every day.

 

TPM isnt a classic by a long shot yet. That will take time...15 to 20 years.

I did enjoy the film. Even liked it better than Clones. But all the OT movies are better. Those movies just seemed to take themselves more seriously, and there was more of a "mystique" feel to them. An essence around them that makes ANH so classic to critics eyes, and the OT more classic to many people. Just the way I feel.

 

DrEvazan wrote: for once we agree!

 

I can actually see the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse coming over the horizon...

 

The telling statistic on sites such as IMDB, Rotten Tomatoes et al, is that for instance on IMDB, fewer than 25% of the near hundred thousand voters gave either of the prequels less than 6/10.

I'm sure many were rather ambivalent about TPM.

Obviously AotC is more popular.

Neither are in any way viewed by the majority of filmgoers to have been terrible or awful films.

People who really slate these films are in a small minority.

That's not necessarily a bad thing- but to assert that your viewpoint is somehow accepted wisdom has no credence whatsoever.

 

the number of people who will skip episode III grows every day.

What really worries me is that if Episode III's box office IS any lower than AOTC's (as Lucas has predicted), DrEvazan is going to be convinced it was because of him.

The image I get in my mind. "I stab at thee!"

So how many people on this board do you know for a fact ARE planning to not go see Episode III? This number that grows? Is there a list?

Out of curiosity... what are the terms of your boycott? Are you going to not see it, ever, no matter what?
See it, but pay for another movie and sneak in so Luca$ doesn't get your money? (or download it?)
Wait for the video/DVD?

And assuming you don't plan to watch it (at least in theaters)... what if your fellow bashers end up liking it? Or loving it, perhaps even loving it better than any of the OT?



Finally, threadjack time. Come one, come all! Please feel free to critique my rewrite of some AOTC dialogue, and maybe add your own rewrites. Let's see if it's true that the average fanboy can do better than GL.


All right, that's it for me.


Rick McCallum loves you!

 

"Convenient, they aren't "respectable," why? Because they gave the Star Wars prequels fifteen nominations combined, including the prestigious Worst Film nominations. They have the same credibility as the sources in your Google search, you just don't "respect" them, so you don't take their input as reasonible. By that rationale, the bunch of newspapers and magazines you referred to have zero respectability as they aren't high profile enough for us to care, while the Razzies are high profile in comparison to Joe Schmoe from some radio station in Tuscon who gave TPM three and a half chili peppers. "

No, see they aren't respectable because they do stuff like hand out worst actress nominations to a handmaiden who is visible in about 3 scenes and has no lines. Or hand out worst film awards to movies they openly admit to actually liking.

 

Darth-Stryphe :
"how to you quantify 'classic' in the case of TPM?"

As a film that I will watch at lest two times a year, and will enjoy doing so each time. One that has lines that I will us in RPGs for the rest of my life.

 

I agree that it is a classic.

It is amazing to me how much it has grown on me. The thing that has grown the most is the pod race. I wish every bit of the deleted sequences were left in. I want to see every racer and every pod.

 

Out of curiosity... what are the terms of your boycott? Are you going to not see it, ever, no matter what?
See it, but pay for another movie and sneak in so Luca$ doesn't get your money? (or download it?)
Wait for the video/DVD?

i do not plan on seeing the film at all. no DVD, no download. nuffin!

And assuming you don't plan to watch it (at least in theaters)... what if your fellow bashers end up liking it? Or loving it, perhaps even loving it better than any of the OT?

first of all i doubt this will happen, as evidenced by TPM and AOTC. when AOTC came out, friends of mine told me it was a return to the "Star Wars" that we all grew to know and love. i went to see AOTC based on that reccommendation and was woefully dissappointed. fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. i wont be fooled a third time.

as for a list, no there is not one but i have read many posts recently where fans express their total lack of interest in the next film. i considered starting a website along the lines of the "original OT on DVD" petitions. that may still happen. you can bet someone standing outside a theater with a sign asking for a boycott will get news attention (even though the guy holding the sign will end up looking like a really big geek). actually it wouldnt look much different than people lining up for months before the film comes out.

i dont really expect to change the box-office for episode III by not seeing it, im just not interested in seeing what Lucas does next. the damage has been done and it will only get worse. i dont need to see anymore of what is happening to Star Wars. of course if the boycott effort takes off, hopefully Lucas will get the message, but since he hasnt listened to criticism so far, im not expecting much.

i havent bought a PT related product at all. no DVD, no toys, figures. fortunatley the OT video games are pretty good so i have bought or rented a few of those. when it comes down to it, i dont believe in supporting an inferior product, so i dont.

 

No, see they aren't respectable because they do stuff like hand out worst actress nominations to a handmaiden who is visible in about 3 scenes and has no lines. Or hand out worst film awards to movies they openly admit to actually liking.

Hmm, let's see:

WORST Supporting Actor

Hayden Christensen/STAR WARS/EPISODE II: YADA-YADA-YODA

Tom Green/STEALING HARVARD

Freddie Prinze, Jr./SCOOBY DOO

Christopher Walken/THE COUNTRY BEARS*

Robin Williams/DEATH TO SMOOCHY*



WORST Supporting Actress

Lara Flynn Boyle/MEN IN BLACK II

Bo Derek/MASTER OF DISGUISE

Madonna/DIE ANOTHER DAY

Natalie Portman/STAR WARS: EPISODE?WHO CARES?

Rebecca Ramijn-Stamos/ROLLERBALL



Worst Screen Couple of 1999

Pierce Brosnan & Denise Richards/THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH

Sean Connery & Catherine Zeta-Jones/ENTRAPMENT

Kevin Kline & Will Smith/WILD WILD WEST

Jake Lloyd & Natalie Portman/STAR WARS: EPISODE I, THE PHANTOM MENACE

Lili Taylor & Catherine Zeta-Jones/THE HAUNTING



Worst Supporting Actor of 1999

Jar-Jar Binks (Voice by Ahmed Best), STAR WARS: EPISODE I, THE PHANTOM MENACE

Kenneth Branagh/WILD WILD WEST

Gabriel Byrne/END OF DAYS, STIGMATA

Jake Lloyd/STAR WARS: EPISODE I, THE PHANTOM MENACE

Rob Schneider/BIG DADDY

I dunno, I wouldn't call Natalie Portman or Hayden Christensen bit players in only three scenes with no lines in the background of a Star Wars prequel.

 

no bias in the fact that they refused to even spell out the title of the film

 

If the number of Razzies or Oscars won by a film were directly proportional to the film's quality then Titanic would be the best film of all time. *Ahem*

 

no bias in the fact that they refused to even spell out the title of the film

Their contempt is indicative of the society we live in; the movies may have drawn huge amounts of cash, but what keeps them from being seen as "classics" by people other than die-hard Prequel followers is the "fact" (for the lack of a better word) these films are seen as jokes. Other than the little articles Clone came across in his search, no one has really said anything positive about the prequels without a mildly to scathingly bad comment being attached. The ones that have nothing but positive things to say are grossly outnumbered by the ones that weren't impressed by the effects, story, direction, acting, or the spectacle that was generated around it.

 

i do not plan on seeing the film at all. no DVD, no download. nuffin!

All my kidding aside, I respect that.

I got no love for anyone who says they plan to download a movie instead of paying for it (or do something similar to try and stick it to "the man".) This applies to all films, not just SW.


Sabreman - heh.

Between its $ and its Oscars, "Titanic" has made it impossible to discuss any film's quality



Rick McCallum loves you!