pivot point theory

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by KITFIST-O-FURY, Feb 11, 2003.

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  1. KITFIST-O-FURY Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2003
    a friend and i were discussing a favorit author who specializes in series sagas, and almost naturally, talk turned to star wars. my friend has a little pet theory, which i have found very stimulating in analyzing the saga. here it goes;
    each of the films contains within it a formulaic struture based on essential storytelling, because that is what lucas essentially is, an accomplished visual storyteller. in each movie, there are the three classic acts, with essential "pivot points" in between which re-direct the flow of the movie. these pivot points are scenes which alter pace, content, character development, or all three.
    the pivot points we agreed on from the movie are:
    ANH- 1) the death of owen and beru
    2) the death of obi-won
    ESB- 1) the yoda/luke meeting
    2) the "i am your father" announcement
    ROTJ- 1) the death of yoda
    2) the sacrifice of vader

    the point is that these scenes alter the flow and direction of the movie. it is going in a diferent direction after these scenes. what i'd like to know is if you agree or disagree with this premise, and, if you agree, then do you agree with our choices of pivot points. if not, give me yours
  2. ArtisticJedi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2002
    star 1
    okay lets take a shot at this.....

    Phantom Menace:

    finding anikain

    death of qui gon

    Attack of the Clones:
    creation of the clones

    anikain and padme getting hitched

    ep 3?

    A New Hope:

    yeah, owen an beru getting killed

    ben getting killed

    well i agree with all the rest of yours.
  3. KITFIST-O-FURY Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2003
    sorry, but somehow some of my post got lost.
    TPM- 1)finding anakin
    2)death of QGJ
    AOTC- 1)death of zam wessel
    2)anakin's massacre
    also, i wanted this to be a platform for projecting possible epi 3 pivots.

    sorry about the technical error, and great response above
  4. DarthAttorney Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2000
    star 6
    I'd say that in AotC, the pivotal points are:

    1) Anakin murdering sandpeople.
    2) Arrival of Clones Army in the Geonosian arena.

    ?[face_plain]
  5. JHC_JEDI Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2002
    star 1
    I'm not sure anyone wants to hear this, but in TPM, I'm pretty sure that finding Jar Jar is the first pivot point.

    Finding him is a critical part of the plot. If there was no Jar Jar Binks, Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan would never have met boss Nass, or even known about the Gungans. The Naboo wouldn't have been able to fight back against the Trade Federation, and if the Gungans did decide to resist the occupation they would have not had a plan, and been stomped.

  6. JediHobbit Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2002
    star 5
    that's true

    Jar Jar's role was actuall sort of critical. Also, his voting for palpatine's emergency powers in AotC.
  7. Aunecah_Skywalker Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 25, 2002
    star 5
    For TPM:

    1. The "I'll train him then" Council scene.
    2. Qui-Gon's death

    For AOTC:

    I'm going to have to agree with DA here.

    Aunecah
  8. YodaJediMaster12 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 4
    In TPM, I think a key turning point is when Padme issues a vote of no confidence in Vallorum and Palpatine is subsequently elected as the new Surpreme Chancellor.


    A critical AOTC plot point I just thought of was when Yoda stopped the pillar from falling on Anakin and Obi-Wan instead of stopping Dooku's escape.

    Two from ANH I think of are when Luke first meets Ben, and when the Death Star is destroyed.

    From ESB I see Luke's leaving Degobah to help his friends as being a pivotal plot point (nice but unintentional alliteration if I do say so myself ;) ).

    I think when Luke turns himself into Vader during ROTJ could be considered a pivot point as well.
  9. bedada3 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 2002
    star 4
    In ANH, I think the most important pivital point was when Anakin/Vadar's memory begins returning when the Falcon lands in the DS.
    He says, "I sense something, a presence I haven't felt since..."
  10. ForceMaster101 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 30, 2003
    star 5
    I guess I can agree with you and I have a know one
    Ok Get this:
    Episode I Villian Maul=1 episode alive
    Episode II Villain Dooku=2 episode alive
    Episode IV Villian Vader=3 episode alive
    1,2,3 Get it!!
  11. Scott3eyez Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 1, 2001
    star 4
    The "pivot point" idea is an interesting way of looking at things...

    Mine would be;

    TPM;

    1) The dice roll. This is where Anakin's role in the saga changes from a secondary character in the background to having a primary role- which is entirely down to Qui Gon's actions.
    2) The Senate vote. Not only is this the point where Palpatine's plans come to fruition with the removal of the Chancellor from power, but also the point where Padme realises that the only way for her to free her people is to go back to her planet and do it herself.

    AOTC
    1) Anakin leaving Naboo to go and try to rescue his mother. Although the tusken slaughter is a big moment when it comes to pass, I think the decision to go to Tatooine in the first place was the pivotal point- because what other outcome was ever likely to happen when he got there?
    2) Yoda bringing the Clone army to Geonosis, and starting the Clone Wars- as Palpatine had planned.

    ANH
    1) Owen and Beru's deaths- the turning point for Luke between staying on Tatooine and following Obi Wan.
    2) Obi Wan's self-sacrifice.

    ESB
    1) Luke acting on his visions of his friends in pain- similar to Anakin acting on his dreams of his mother's suffering.
    2) "I am your father." Turns everything Luke thought he was, and thought he was doing on it's head.

    ROTJ
    I can only think of one; Luke's refusal to fight, which directly leads to Anakin's "return" and the death of the Emperor.

    >>>also, i wanted this to be a platform for projecting possible epi 3 pivots.

    My guesses;
    1) The Jedi getting betrayed (by Vader/Clones/Palpatine)
    2) Anakin making the big choice to go to the Dark Side
    3) Padme leaving Anakin
  12. Captian_Jack Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 28, 2003
    TPM - The doors slide open to reveal Darth Maul. Jedi confront Sith for fist time in thousands of years.
  13. burrie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2000
    star 4
    Actually, the Sith had confronted the Jedi before. Remember Darth Maul attacking Qui-Gon on Tattooine? ;)
  14. Herman Snerd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 1999
    star 6
    In TPM, a major turning point is Anakin's freedom from Watto. Without that, Anakin grows up a slave and likely never leaves Tatooine.
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