Plagiarism on the boards

I've never been plagarized for fanfic (probably because I don't post nearly as many or as long stories as some other writers here), but I HAVE been plagarized from my website, the Aliens Online Encyclopedia. Basically, it's the most extensive Aliens website ever made. It's just like the book 'The Star Wars Encyclopedia', but it's on the Internet, and is in regards to the Alien films (and novels, comics, games, toys, etc). Needless to say, my content is good. People like it. They use it a lot, and even accept it as fact (a lot of it is. Not ALL of it, though). I've seen my "Aliens vs Predator EU Timeline" show up on other people's pages, though. That isn't cool.

My policy is this:
If you want to use my stuff on your website, then cool. So long as you credit me (preferably with a link to my site and/or an Email mailto link) and you do that, even if you didn't ask my permission to use my stuff, then that's okay. So long as I got credited and all that stuff. If you contact me and ask to use my stuff, I really appreciate that, and I'll often reciprocate and at the very least post a link to your page on mine, out of thanks for asking permission.
If you take my stuff without asking and DON'T credit me, however, I will do everything in my power to get your website shut down and get you kicked off your ISP. I have a very explicit and visible copyright statement on my site, and even if I don't own the rights to the original Alien films and such, all original content and ideas on my site *are* my property, and it is within my legal bounds to take action.

The same thing probably applies with fanfic, actually. You may not be able to take someone to court and get monetary damages paid, but you can probably demand that offending content be removed from a site, and the ISP and/or site host is obligated to listen and pay attention.

 

(double-post, by accident)

 

This may sound very harsh, but I'll say it anyway:

One who can't come up with his/her own ideas should not write.

Now, let me explain. That's what creative writing is about - putting your ideas on paper (or, in this case, on the computer screen). How can you become a writer if you can't come up with some plot or a story? Better not to write at all than to use someone else's idea.

This is an extreme case, because I'm sure that everyone is capable of an idea for a story. Everyone who has even a tiny bit of imagination can do it (and I believe that every one of us has a bit of imagination in him). So why steal other ideas? It won't make you better writer - and if you get busted, it's a shame.

If someone wants to improve his writing, he should go and ask some better writer to help him. I think there's a thread for that kind of help here in the WR (Adopt-A-Newbie or something like that). There are plenty of possibilities and all of them are better than just shameless plagiarism.

 

Well, there was a question about policy earlier, so I decided it was time to hash one out. Not everyone has chimed in yet, but it's looking like the policy for plagiarism is going to be a three-month ban for a first offense (and the other night was a first offense, even if several stories were done), and a permanent ban for any subsequent offense.

 

Actually, now I think about it, I was kind-of plagiarised once - a volcano article I'd done *grins* One of the best pieces of work I've ever made, that, I was *SO* proud of it - popped up on a couple of other sites (not just copied once, mind, copied twice - I forget, I might've seen it on a third too). I just dropped them an e-mail, saying, could you possibly credit WHO the writer is, rather'n just letting people assume it was their own?

I remember, tho', I was SO amused when they sent me an e-mail back asking about a point someone had asked them that they couldn't answer... They had to get in touch with the original writer just to clear it up! Talk about shameless! Anyway, in the end they decided, after talking with me, to take it down. Dunno why, but I guess it's easier to plagiarise someone when you don't know them and therefore won't feel guilty. *shrugs*

I actually took it as a weird form of flattery on how good the article was, tbt...

Out of curiosity, are most plagiarists ones who don't even let you know they're *reading* your fic in the first place..?

I've still got to be honest about my opinion with this. I simply don't understand them, one iota, nor why they do it. By the sounds of all this, this case was a BAD one, one that DOES deserve being dealt with pretty harshly. Simple cut-and-paste plagiarism. I *do* wish I could fathom why they did it, tho'...

(Oh, an Am - no need to worry, I wasn't getting at you or anything!)

 

Amen, ami-padme. Plagiarism does suck.

It's an ugly, ugly crime. And while I've never been victim to its hideous schemes, I can assure you that I will do anything in my power to see an incident justified. It's an awful thing to go through; to see your hard work and planning and effort go under someone else's name and be claimed as their own.

Just some comments from the peanut gallery.

 

I think everyone needs to keep one thing in mind. Being plagirized is horrible, but being accused of plagirizing when you haven't plagirized is just as bad, if not worse. I'm not naming any names, but I was once accused of stealing someone's fic that I didn't even read. Now, I don't even think I need to go into detail of my opinion of how large this person's ego was, but he would not let it go. And, given the fact that I didn't even read his fic, I doubt there could've been more than a superficial resemblence. If I remember correctly, his major gripe was that Jaina was a dark Jedi... and anyone who has read SbS and Dark Journey knows that isn't exactly an amazingly original idea.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, people who actually engage in plagiarism SHOULD be punished, but some protection should be provided for people who are wrongfully accused of plagiarism.

EDIT: Sorry about the caps, I just remembered that that means you're yelling, and I was going for emphasis, not yelling [face_embarassed]

 

Agreed. Like I said, there are gray areas, and even in the real world, you can't copyright a thought or an idea, just its expression. In other words, if someone wanted to write a story about a farmer who is called to be a knight and rescues a princess from an enemy fortress, he can--the farmer just can't be Luke Skywalker, he can't come from Tatooine, the princess can't be Leia, she can't be held on the Death Star, and the specific plot incidents can't be repeated. But the general idea? There would be nothing illegal about it. Same in fanfic. Some ideas are just out there waiting to be grabbed, and sometimes two writers grab the same one. That's not plagiarism.

Quite honestly, I wouldn't consider it plagiarism even if you had read his story and thought, you know... I like the idea, but I could do it better. As long as the expression is different and the particular events are different, it's not plagiarism. Though if you do decide to do something like this, it's always good form to begin with something like, "I saw Bubbles's story, Dark Wicket, and it really got a plot bunny nibbling at me. Ewoks on the Dark Side! So I decided to try this out..."

 

Actually, I'm going to take a completely different tack on this... Although I have never plagarized or been plagarized, I have been effected by it. On my thread I posted an idea I had for a new story I wanted to write. Almost immediately I had people responding that there was another story similar to it. Even though I had not read the story, and the idea was totally my own, I was afraid to even attempt to write it since I didn't want to even be falsely accused of so heinous a crime. Now why am I bothering you all with this? Maybe because blatant plagarism is obvious and terrible and should be addressed harshly and swiftly, but the grey-area stuff needs to be dealt with in an entirely different manner. I never wrote the story, even though several people were interested, because I was ashamed that I had even thought of an idea that someone else had already done. I didn't want to even risk incurring someone's wrath because my mind happened to make the same leap that their's did. All I suggest is that those that think they have been plagarized make certain that it isn't a case of coincidence before they flame or get otherwise upset.

Thanks!
CK

 

Absolutely agreed, CK. People need to know what plagiarism actually is, and not throw around accusations of it because of similar ideas. And you should never be afraid to write a story that's in your head.

 

I completely agree Jedi_Anakin_Solo.

Being accused of plagiarism when you haven't plagiarized is horrible. I was once wrongfully accused of plagiarism (in another fanfic universe.) But what was even worse was the writer didn't even have the decency to confront me, rather she badmouthed me and call me a cheat to without me knowing it. My reputation in that fiction area was almost torn to shreds when I found out.

Let's just say it was a heartbreaking experience that almost made stop publish my stuff to the fanfiction world all together.

Anyway, people who commit this crime need to be punished. It is a terrible act to do to another fellow writer. But as Jedi_Anakin_Solo said their must be some protection or rights wrongfully accused. Being talked about behind your back when you did nothing wrong kills your creativity, your self worth. You can truly never be the same after it.


OG

 

I was plagiarized; my story was lifted off these boards and put on TF.N under another name. When I confronted the little cut-and-paste rocket scientist about it, she had the nerve to tell me that she didn't know what I was talking about and she didn't know what fanfiction.net was--and, if you can believe this, that I should please not e-mail her again because this was her "private account" and she was "very busy". (I guess that's why she didn't have time to write her own story and had to copy mine and paste it.) I wrote her back and told her that if this was her "private account", she really should check into who else has access to it, because someone had used it to set up an account on ff.n and then subsequently plagiarize my story. I never heard from her again.

As far as being accused of plagiarizing when you're not--I agree that that would be very painful, and I try to be extra careful. My characterization of Sabe in my fic, for example, was inspired by another story--the author is a friend of mine, and I let her know that I had borrowed from her, and she was flattered.

Syntax: My policy is that I generally don't care if you're using my stuff on your website, but let me know you're doing it and be sure to give me credit--otherwise, I'll take the same actions you listed.

Mar: I agree with you--and I don't care how harsh it is, because most people who know me, know that I'm not one to beat around the bush. It's OK to "play in George's sandbox" for awhile as long as we're giving George the credit--I even think it's OK for there to be several stories around one major plotline, such as an AU in which Anakin doesn't turn--however, anyone who can't string their own sets of words together to make a sentence, and therefore has to cut and paste someone else's story, has no more business writing (or should I say, using the mouse to click "select all," "copy," and "paste") than I do piloting a Naboo starfighter to Hoth wearing a string bikini.

 

Plagiarism is the nightmare of any writer. Fortunately, the majority of times someone engages in such pasttime they make only the barest of alterations, all but announcing themselves. It's fear of plagiarism that hesitates many professional writers from going to online workshops and receiving reader feedback.

 

I have a morbid fear that I've memorized books in the past, then forgotten I read them, and as soon as a story I write surfaces, some author I read in third grade will sue me...

 

Let me first say how secure i feel knowing so many people feel so strongly about plagerism. i've been in other boards before, but i've only been in the TF.N board for a short time, and i'm really surprised at how everyone is so nice to each other and looks out for each other.

i personally have never been plagarized before (my work isn't that good yet), but i know i would hate it if i ever was.

whenever i write a story, though, the inspiration usually comes from another story that i've read before. as i form the idea in my head it becomes different from the original writer's plot, but some base points would be the same, like there was a greedy person who killed a girl by set a building on fire. would that be considered plagerizing? technically, i stole the writer's idea, but i didn't really use any of their words. i always personally thought that plagerism was only when you write a story while also staring at someone else's work while you type.

and i'd like to thank the mods that removed the material on the board as soon as they realized it was plagarized, and then unlocking this thread for people to talk about it.

 

I have a morbid fear that I've memorized books in the past, then forgotten I read them, and as soon as a story I write surfaces, some author I read in third grade will sue me...

Amazing! I have the exact same fear, Gala!

I myself have never had my fanfics stolen, but I have had a wire-art sculpture copied once. It really burnt my buiscit when his got recognition, too. He saw mine at my house so decided to make one EXACTLY like it in art. OOoooh...


But, I think that when someone is a glutton for praise (like myself) but can't seem to scrape together enough inspiration to gather readers (again, like myself), it can be frustrating to say the least.

Some people take this as a cue to bring out the big guns known as plaigerism. It's horribly, horribly wrong, but some people just don't know what else to do when they are simply desperate for a "Hey, good job," or a "I like what you did here."

I think maybe if more people (Coughlurkerscough) took the time to post a few words regarding the writer's story, plaigerism would decline dramatically. Now, it doesn't have to be, "WOW, YOU'VE ABSOLUTELY BLOWN ME AWAY!!", especially if that would be lying. Give them constructive praise; tell them how they did and what they can do to improve. That's what most younger and beginning writers are looking for, anyway....

Heck, I've been here since '97 or '98 and I'm STILL looking for it... .

Also... this may seem a bit drastic, but what about right-click protection? This prevents any sort of right clicking on the website, not allowing copying and pasting. This, of course, would mean that quoting others and such (like I did at the top of this post) would no longer happen, so I doubt it's a workable option unless plaigerism gets out of hand.

 

Just a quick note:

I operate an archive in another fandom and share formatting duties with an archive staff. When we had a plagiarist submit a work copied from a story we all knew well - from the one of the archivists no less - we pulled all of her work, compared it to other stories.

No wonder we liked her stuff, she copied from some of our favorite authors.

We yanked her stuff off the site, put a banner up explaining why, and then took the tale to every mailing list and archive that we knew.

In short, we tarred and feathered the offender and then rode her out of town on a rail.

Cruel? Not to my POV. This was no attention-seeking youngster, but a grown woman who should have known better. She was relying on the fact that we were not reading what we archived. Was she ever surprised.

Since that time, she has done the same thing in three other fandoms. The latest time she claimed that it was a homage to her favorite writers - none of whom she credited and all of whom knew her game.

It may be 'only fanfic' but writers who care about their readers really bust butt to craft a tale. To have someone file off the numbers and hit the thesaurus is an insult to the effort.

 

I saw the sudden rash of plagarized fics and would like to say this:

According to United States and International Copyright laws you are absolutely required to give credit to the author if you use their material, be it for a paper for school or a fanfic. Even though Star Wars belongs to George Lucas, we aren't making any money off it, but we still have to put our disclaimers (note to anyone who has forgotten to do so.)

If you, as the author, do not wish for someone to archive or use parts of your story, you need to put that in your disclaimer on the first page of the fic. They are then not allowed to do so without your express permission. To do otherwise is violating copyright law. If you don't have this and they credit you, you're pretty much screwed, and can only harass them if you don't want it done.

~Rogue

 

I just stumbled upon this, and it's good to hear that others feel the same way I do. Plagarism is a terrible thing. But I also was secretly relieved to hear that other people have the same fears I do about inadvertantly stealing someone else's work. Like others have said, I read so many wonderful things each week, I'm always terrified that the plots, characters, scenes, ironies, etc. will bleed into my subconcious and then leak out onto a page from my pen! I worry that I wouldn't even realize it, and then I would post it and be driven off the boards by an outraged (rightly so) mob. It hasn't happened yet, fortunately, and I hope it never will, but it's one of my nightmares as an author. Anyone else feel the same way?

 

Like others have said, I read so many wonderful things each week, I'm always terrified that the plots, characters, scenes, ironies, etc. will bleed into my subconcious and then leak out onto a page from my pen! I worry that I wouldn't even realize it, and then I would post it and be driven off the boards by an outraged (rightly so) mob. It hasn't happened yet, fortunately, and I hope it never will, but it's one of my nightmares as an author. Anyone else feel the same way?

I know exactly how you feel. I've read so much on these boards and sometimes they all run together, and especially if something you read really strikes a chord with you--it's easy to see how your subconscious may hang on to that. And there's been a few times where i've thought that if these certain 3 fics were combined it'd make an awesome storyline.

I myself am very careful to stay away from even starting of posting a fic that is in anyway familiar to something i've come across. A perfect example of that is an idea I had for an Obi/Xan/Qui fic that had been nibbling away at me for awhile, but I was a long ways away from putting anything down. I was completely thrown when I started a reading a new fic that had been posted where many of the things in the opening post were virtually parallel to what I was planning. I was a little miffed, but hey--someone else beat me to it. It is not uncommon for more than one person to come up with the same great idea.

I actually pm'd the author and told her this and we talked back and forth quite a bit. I just told her what a great plot idea I thought it was and that she was doing a great job with it. I even offered her some of my ideas that I was planning to use if she wanted to. Our ideas actually diverged rather quickly into the fic, but out of courtesy to her and not wanting it to seem as if I were copying her idea--I elected not to pursue my plot bunny.

Now, this next little bit hit a bit closer to home for me. I would never intentionally plagerize anything, nor would I want it done to me. In writing my fic 'Going Home' I had come up with what I thought was a pretty original idea to explain the whole midichlorian count thing (it's an AU for TPM btw). I was quite shocked to say the least when less than a month later on another fic (an adult fic btw) I came across that very same idea that I thought was so original. This fic that I came across was alteast 2 years old, so any presumed plagarism would not have been on that authors part.

Here is a case where the wording was quite obviously different, but the result was pretty much the same. I immediately e-mailed the author to make this known and that no plagarism was intended--though I had no idea if she even frequented these boards or not. Unfortunately I received no response as the authors e-mail addy had changed and she apparently was no longer involved in writing for this fandom. I feel very confident that I did not plagarize, obviously--since I hadn't found her fic until after mine had been written, but it still bothers me to this day that it could be misconstrued that way. How I wish i'd never even found it But on the other hand, it was a pretty great fic.

I was actually quite surprised to hear that there was even an issue with plagarism here, naive on my part maybe to think that people that frequent these boards would actually do that. For the most part, the people i've met here are kind, honest, trustworthy and immensley talented in their own rights. And all most certainly deserve the credit for ideas that are their own. I wholeheartedly agree with the discpline the moderators dole out for dealing with plagarism.

I don't think i've ever had so much to say about a topic. I don't usually babble on so, so please forgive me Lastly, if I felt that I had been plagarised, I would probably PM the culprit first and see how things progressed from there. I am not the type (quiet though I am) to let things like that slide--I know it's not right and so do those who do it. There, i'm done.

--Shan