Saga Plagueis or Sidious - who is Anakin's dad?

This does not makes sense. It's canon! Why would he lie?

 

watch the movie again. here's what i posted before.

neither. the force created anakin.

sidious even says in episode 3 that "the ability to cheat death is a power only one has achieved (plagueis) but together i know we can discover the secret." sidious lied to anakin that he could save people. he doesn't know how to do it. that's why he wants the chose one, so he can figure it out for himself using anakin's power. he couldn't save people from dying so he definitely couldn't create life. so sidious is out.

plagueis could cheat death by stopping his own aging but he couldn't create life. he tried experimenting with midichlorians but never had any success. when anakin came along he and sidious wondered if the experiment had worked but plagueis was scared.

in "tarkin" which is the first new canon book, sidious talked about this.

"Darth Plagueis had once remarked that 'the Force can strike back.'"―Palpatine, musing on an utterance made by Plagueis.

plagueis believed that the force created anakin in retaliation because he was manipulating it.

the last piece of the puzzle is the prophecy. the prophecy says that the chosen one is created "from the force itself".

Chosen One - Wookieepedia, the Star Wars Wiki

a huge part of the jedi and sith belief systems were revealed in the yoda arc of tcw. it's a must watch. what it reveals about both the jedi and sith is that they believe death is the end. they believe that once you die you lose your identity and become apart of the cosmic force.

the jedi believe that you accept death as a part of life. qui-gon communicates with yoda and tells him that their is life after death in the form of "becoming one with the force". if you figure out how, you die but your identity lives on in the living force.

the sith believe that death is the end and they don't accept it. this is why plagueis and sidious try to manipulate the force. they do not accept death. they want to be immortal. this is the another huge reason palps wants anakin. he wants to use the chosen one's power to learn how to live forever.

this is the final nail in the coffin of the "anakin has a father" theory. the entire reason the sith are experimenting with the force is not because they want to create life but because they want to cheat death.

 

dp.

 

Sorry, there's no proof that Anakin was created by anything other than through the Will of the Force (through the midichlorians.)

 

Saying it is a touch much isn't much of an explanation.

He was only interested in the one power and since she is now dead, he has no need for it. But Vader still wanted power and has gained it. He still wants to make the galaxy a better place than it was and for that reason alone, he serves Palpatine until he is ready to be rid of him and that's when Luke shows up.

Possibly. Most likely it would have been like what we see Palpatine and Dooku do in "Sacrifice" when they attempt to break Yoda during his training on Moraband.

They wanted to create the most powerful Force user ever, who would destroy the Jedi and help the Sith to rule.

It is possible that they didn't think it worked. It is possible that they were off in their miscalculations and thus Anakin was conceived through Shmi, rather than their intended guinea pig. Perhaps Plagueis didn't trust Palpatine and shipped Shmi off, before he was assassinated. Perhaps Palpatine thought Plagueis was full of Bantha poodoo and thus killed him, then finds out the truth later on and is surprised.

Palpatine sends Anakin into the Temple and to Mustafar to free himself of the burden of having a conscience and thus he would gain strength through it. When a Jedi turned Sith has no sense of good and evil, just that right is might, then they grow stronger by letting the hate flow through him. That's why Anakin says that he feels stronger having killed so many in the Temple. Why he says to Padme that he feels stronger now and that he can take out Palpatine. Anakin is told that once he has learned from him, the two of them can then retrace Plagueis's steps and replicate the power.

Indeed. Plus, as both Qui-gon said, the Midichorians communicate with the Force user. Telling them the will of the Force.

There's no proof that the Force wasn't manipulated. That's the point. Remember, Lucas originally had Palpatine tell Anakin that he created him and when he says that isn't true, he is told to search his feelings and Anakin goes along with him because it was true.

 

I've stated earlier in the thread. It's there for all to see.

Rabbit-hole reasoning. I'm not going down that hole.

What I remember Palpatine admitting in the film was that he didn't have the power. So much for dropped concepts.

 

I don't think it's a matter of either of them being Anakin's father. I think that Plagueis boasted of being able to create the Chosen One, and the Force created Anakin both because of him and to spite him. There's a fair bit of mystery to it, but that's my interpretation.

 

Yep, probably this.

 

There's nothing to indicate the Force couldn't do this on its own.

 

To quote another poster - and another franchise:

"What does God need with a starship?"

 

Hmm this book begs to differ (which by the way is one of the best books I have ever read in my life) and James Luceno conversed a lot with George Lucas about the core story elements.



Even though it is part of Legends they keep on taking a lot of stuff from the old canon and rehashed it mainly to be able to do whatever they want with Episode 7.

 

In the original sequence, Anakin was already present for the duel and Palpatine doesn't pretend to be weak. The lightning stand off ends and then Mace goes in for the kill, only to be stopped by Anakin.


"Okay, well this sequence always started out with Mace uh overpowering Palpatine and then Palpatine using his powers to try to destroy Mace and Mace deflecting his rays with his Lightsaber. It always was that Anakin cut the Lightsaber out of his hand. But this part where he pretends to lose his power and be weak was something that I added later cause this is it moved the point where Anakin turns down to this moment right here and you can see that he’s now that its very clear that he’s, he wants him to go on trial so he can pump him for information about how to get these powers."

--George Lucas, ROTS DVD Commentary.

"It made a lot more sense to have him stay loyal to the Jedi which meant later on in this scene with the fight with Mace, we re-did that scene and at first there wasn’t the part where the Emperor gives up, he goes - “You got me! You got me!”. It was basically the scene without that where it gets more intense and Anakin finally breaks down and saves him, but it didn’t have the same feeling as that pause in there where you think…and it makes the Emperor a lot more slimy, it's really fun. it’s a dramatic thing to deal with."

--George Lucas, ROTS DVD Commentary.

It was only when Lucas redid everything, that he came up with the idea that Anakin goes back and then returns and has to be convinced to make a choice. That's why he said that he decided to leave it ambiguous. In doing that, he changed it to Palpatine telling Anakin that if he dies, so does Padme.

"You almost come a second too late. You're rushing over to make sure that nothing happens-but your anticipation is that they're going to hurt each other. When the lightning starts things are going from bad to worse from your point of view. And when Mace is going to kill him, you have to act.

Try and increase how uncomfortable you feel as the shot goes on. Try to think back on the Darth Plagueis story-run that through your head. Take it one step further: you realize that by telling the Jedi about Palpatine being a Sith that Padme is going to die. Basically, you just killed her."

--George Lucas To Hayden Christensen, The Making Of ROTS.

Luceno created a compromise, but as Lucas himself said, "It's left up to the audience to decide. How he was born ultimately has no relationship to how he dies, because in the end, the prophecy is true: Balance comes back to the Force."

--George Lucas, Rolling Stone Magazine, 2005.

 

Devizz, EU is not proof.... sorry.

“Boba Fett is dead. I killed him.” George Lucas

 

It was still dropped.

 

I'm not denying that. I'm just pointing out that it was a real power. It wasn't something that he (Palpatine) pulled out of his ass.

 

Actually, Lucas pulled it out of his ass....and then shoved it right back in when he dropped the scene.

 

Good point, but I will counter it with this point: There is also nothing to indicate why the Force would do this exceptional act on its own.

 

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^.

 

The thread question presents a false dilemma.The answer could be, and probably is, neither.

Asserting that Palpatine is Luke's grandfather without any evidential basis is almost as annoying as contantly calling him "Sheev".

 

I thought it was interesting idea at first when I think it was one of the artists from Topp's Star Wars Galaxy (?) that first floated that idea when Vol. 1 came out in 1993.

 

This does not makes sense. It's canon! Why would he lie?
---------------



oh wait, you're serious....

 

Everything "Star Wars" was pulled out of his ass, if you want to be truthful.

The basis is that Darth Sidious said that Plagueis could do this and most everything Palpatine says is the truth. He seldomly outright lies. Also, there is not evidential basis the Force did it on its own. As to Sheev, it is an official name. So there's no reason to not use that.

 

Sure, I understand that Sidious or Plagueis might have influenced the m-c's to generate Anakin. But let's be clear about the way the poll question is worded. Raising the possibility that one Darth or the other might be "Anakin's dad" does not mean perforce that one or the other of them definitely is. That is how the opening post is framed; that is a logical fallacy; and you are mistaken in trying to correct me for pointing out that it's a fallacy.

As to Palpatine's first name: again, sure, I know. But when I call its constant use (by some posters) "annoying", I'm expressing an opinion. I personally find it grating and faux click-ish and pretentious, in that it pretends to some level of fanhood in using a name few people outside the fanbase know. The name is never used in the films, and he already has three other perfectly serviceable monnikers. You're welcome to disagree, but I'm not stating the opinion that it's annoying as a fact. So again, there's no reason to try to correct me on it. Your considerable research skills and broad field of knowledge are best served elsewhere.

 

There's also nothing to indicate why the Force would help Anakin become the greatest pod-racer, or allow others to see into the future, or direct one's actions, or lift space ships. or play mind-tricks on others, or block laser bolts, or create ghosts, or even allow someone to create lightning from their hands. But I love how only Anakin's birth is the one act that is considered "exceptional". No bias there, right? I'm mean, it's not like the Force is life, right? It's not like it has a will, right? I guess it just seems downright unreasonable to think that a galaxy-wide Force that gives someone a peek at a point in time when the Force, itself, will become greatly unbalanced, and is connected to all life, could even possibly be power enough to....I dunno...create a lifeform at a time when the Force's balance is in great peril. With Anakin being called the "Chosen One"....didya ever wonder about who or what mighta chosen him???

Nah, impossible.....with everything else the Force can do, apparently creating one more life amongst the millions of other life forms is just too "exceptional" to even possibly contemplate. That's just a bridge too far.

He seldom outright tells the truth....otherwise, his plans would never have worked, right?

 

He tells the truth, but trusts people to make faulty assumptions about what he actually means. It's almost like a game for him.