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Saga Plagueis or Sidious - who is Anakin's dad?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Jo Lucas, Oct 10, 2015.

?

Who is Anakin's daddy?

  1. Darth Plagueis

    14 vote(s)
    60.9%
  2. Darth Sidious

    9 vote(s)
    39.1%
  1. MeBeJedi

    MeBeJedi Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 30, 2002
    Oh, I agree.....but his plans involve deception nonetheless.
     
  2. V-2

    V-2 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2012
    Assuming the choice really is between the human Palpatine and the Muun Plagueis, I don't think we need a DNA test to find our answer.

    The rest is just mumbo jumbo. Schmee was on drugs, or otherwise suffering from some sort of messianic delusional state. Palpatine was a psychopath and a liar. The Jedi were viewing everything through the lens of theological dogma.

    I doubt Palps is the father though, as neither Anakin, Luke nor Leia turned out ginger.
     
    MeBeJedi and Hogarth Wrightson like this.
  3. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    His story was consistently that Anakin would be the one doing the saving, not him.

    Because if you can't do one thing, it automatically means you can't do any other thing. Makes sense.

    I don't think so. We know very little about the specific wording of the prophecy.

    A Sith cannot want more than one thing?

    Why would it? Was it supposed to act as an invincibility cheat code?
     
  4. mihaitzateo

    mihaitzateo Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 5, 2015
    If the force is the father of Anakin,how come Anakin is blonde with blue eyes,while his mother
    is dark haired?
    I tell you,is Darth Sidious who is the natural father of Anakin.
    This is why Darth Sidious is so eager to convert Anakin to the dark side and never attacks
    Anakin. Darth Sidious allows Anakin to kill him.
    And Shmi is telling lies,because she is ashamed to tell the truth.
    Now what did Darth Sidious liked at Shmi,I have no idea.
    I guess Shmi was very beautiful when she was young.
     
    Sith Lord 2015 likes this.
  5. DjangoKet

    DjangoKet Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Oct 15, 2015
    guys its Watto
     
  6. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    The thing is that the Jedi don't know all there is to know about the Force. They believe that the Force has a will, but that does not make it so. They believe that the Force guides their destiny, but that does not make it so. Having a belief is just that. Anakin is only identified as the Chosen One because that was what he was labeled as. He's also known as the Ghost Hand. But just because he had no father, doesn't mean that the Force acted on its own in his creation. Just because the Sith created him, doesn't make him not the Chosen One. That's why Lucas said that how he was born doesn't matter.


    Really? He was right about the Jedi not trusting Anakin. They didn't. He was right that that Padme was easily manipulated and naive, which she was. He loved democracy since it was so easily manipulated. The Jedi were going to take over the Senate and remove him from office. The war would end with the death of Grievous which was when Order 66 was issued and the deaths of the Separatist leaders took place.
     
  7. thejeditraitor

    thejeditraitor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    lol no.
     
    Erkan12 likes this.
  8. Darth Vader's Chest Plate

    Darth Vader's Chest Plate Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Shmi could be telling the truth from a differing point of view - not the first time that a Skywalker's paternal history has had this issue.
    Luke could be the one the prophecy referred to. Padme & Anakin could be Leia's parents, but Luke was created by the force, and "hitched a ride" during the gestation.....or vice-versa for Leia.

    It is never stated that Sidious/Plagueis did succeed in creating a sustainable life and it is never stated that Anakin is the result of this, it is purposely left for the viewer to make this assumption. As with most things in SW, the obvious assumption isn't always the correct one.
     
  9. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Unless you're watching TCW. Then the obvious assumption is always the correct one.
     
  10. thejeditraitor

    thejeditraitor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    what?
     
  11. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    I get the feeling that Filoni prefers the obvious assumption to the non-obvious one.
     
  12. Sith Lord 2015

    Sith Lord 2015 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 30, 2015
    This is all just speculation. Or is it actually hinted at anywhere in the canon? Or even EU? I hope they will not make this canon. It's one family relation too many for my taste. I didn't really like Leia being Luke's sister. But this would really take things too far. Do you have any quotes by Lucas to support this? If so then I believe he does have an obsession with every important character in the saga having to be related. Somehow I like the idea that "there was no father" better, although I never really liked that either. What next? Qui-Gon was Obi-Wan's uncle?:rolleyes:
    She looked like this earlier:

    [​IMG]

    Maybe another 20 years earlier she might have looked OK.
     
  13. DjangoKet

    DjangoKet Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Oct 15, 2015
    Hey, she was good enough for Cleigg Lars
     
  14. Sith Lord 2015

    Sith Lord 2015 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 30, 2015
    He was just a simple farmer. But a Sith lord like Palpatine probably would have had higher "requirements".
     
  15. mihaitzateo

    mihaitzateo Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 5, 2015
    No,I have not seen anywhere in the canon a speculation,that Anakin might be natural son of Darth Sidious.
    However,Darth Sidious is way too careful with Anakin and his interest towards Anakin is very weird,
    coming from a Sith Lord.
    I am talking about Prequel Trilogy since in classic saga,the relations between Darth Sidious and Darth Vader are more cold.
    I based my supposition on the fact that Darth Sidious is not killing Luke immediate,Darth Sidious says "And now you will die"
    but still,Darth Sidious do not kill Luke.
    And I was wondering,from where is the temptation towards the dark side and the lust for power,in Skywalker family?
    If Anakin had no father,but was conceived by the force and Shmi,is his lust for power normal?
    Shmi is a simple woman,she never wanted power.
    As for the force,Anakin lust for power could not come either from the force.
    So actually,Anakin lust for power should come from his natural father.
    See that Kylo Ren also has a very strong lust for power and an inclination towards the dark side.
    EDIT:
    According to some,in the script of ROTS Palpatine tells Anakin,that he fathered him through midiclorians. This would be a very logic explanation.As someone said,Palpatine is choosing slave woman from outer rim,to impregnate her via dark side,so Jedis will not discover the child and train him as a Jedi,later.
    Remember what Darth Sidious is telling to Anakin:
    "Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith so powerful and so wise, he could use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians to create life. "

    Anakin could not have been created by the Force,since he was way too leaned to the dark side,from being small,for that. He is also very disobedient towards Obi Wan.
    Also,Anakin,in a cut scene is beating another kid,since this kid offends him with some joke.
     
  16. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001

    Palpatine didn't impregnate her in the traditional sense. One of the Sith used the Force to manipulate the Midichlorians into creating Anakin. Thus either one would be his father, because of that.

    He's interested in Anakin because his power could rival his own and he wants to turn Anakin to the dark side, so that he would become his Apprentice and help him to rule his new Empire and destroy the Jedi. But since he cannot risk killing Obi-wan and taking him, Palpatine instead lets Obi-wan train him, but he befriends Anakin in order to gain his trust. As well as to undermine Obi-wan's hard work, which was a giant middle finger to the man who took down Maul.

    Anakin's lust for power isn't inherited. It is the result of his spending much of his early life as a slave, powerless to change his situation. The memory of that is deeply ingrained into his brain and Palpatine exploits that by telling him he is stronger than all the Jedi combined. Then when he loses his mother, he feels that he is not strong enough to protect his loved ones. So he becomes obsessed with wanting more and more power, so that he can protect his loved ones. The ultimate end goal for one who craves power is to control life and death. To play god.

    As to Anakin's anger with Greedo, he had anger in him as did Luke. As did Leia. All Force users have potential for great anger. The trick is to learn to let go of that anger and remain calm and passive. Obi-wan himself had a lot of anger in him when he was Anakin's age in TPM.
     
    Sith Lord 2015 likes this.
  17. thejeditraitor

    thejeditraitor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    except neither one actually made her pregnant. the force itself did.
     
  18. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Is there proof of that? It is also very likely that Darth Plagueis manipulated the Force into manipulating the Midichlorians.
     
  19. MeBeJedi

    MeBeJedi Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 30, 2002
    In the real world, this would be true......but Star Wars is not the real world. These facts and plot points do serve a purpose.

    But if you want to believe that Lucas had Ben and Yoda speak about the "Will of the Force" to show how clueless they were about the Force, then be my guest.
     
    V-2 likes this.
  20. thejeditraitor

    thejeditraitor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    "Darth Plagueis had once remarked that 'the Force can strike back.'"―Palpatine, musing on an utterance made by Plagueis. from the canon novel TARKIN.
     
  21. Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn

    Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 23, 1999
    I'd appreciate if we left out derogations of actors' appearances. Thank you.
     
  22. Sith Lord 2015

    Sith Lord 2015 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 30, 2015
    He didn't kill Luke because Vader interfered. We see that very clearly. In the movie there is nothing to indicate that Sidious would have stopped the force lightning by himself. Yes, he did it slowly because he is sadistic and wanted Luke to suffer a little before he dies, to punish him some more for his stubbornness and "lack of vision". It is not uncommon for movie villains at all to play a little with their victims and to announce that they are going to kill them before doing it. I don't see that as any evidence that Palpatine meant Luke to survive during that last phase of attacks. He made sure Luke would definitely not want to join him, and gave him a chance to change his mind. When that didn't happen he was going to kill him for sure.
    That is a little vague. Do you have a link to that version of the script where he says that? If it was an earlier draft and they changed it then the final version is the only valid one. Maybe Lucas played with the idea at some point. I'm not saying that's impossible. But for some reason he dropped that and it is no longer in the final version. So that is what counts. Older versions and unused ideas are not really canon. You do have some points but in the end it is still only speculation, not hard facts.
     
  23. mihaitzateo

    mihaitzateo Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 5, 2015
    Sith Lord 2015:
    Here is the proof:
    "Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith so powerful and so wise, he could use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians to create life. "
    Shmi tells that she did not had intercourse to have Anakin,but that does not contradict the fact that Anakin was created by force manipulation,
    by Darth Plagueis or Darth Sidious.
    Since Anakin is fully human and looks quite close to Palpatine,there is a possibility he was created with force manipulation and DNA
    from Palpatine.
    Forgets what is told on wookipedia, that the Force created Anakin as a response to the manipulations of Darth Plagueis and Darth Sidious,
    because that is not based on canon is also pure speculation but it makes no sense.
    If Force would have created Anakin,Anakin should have been very leaned towards the light side not towards the dark side.
     
  24. Sith Lord 2015

    Sith Lord 2015 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 30, 2015
    I agree you do have some interesting observations. When we put these two statements in context we could understand them that way. It's true that Palpatine mentioning Plagueis creating life to Anakin, with that expression on his face, might be seen as a hint. It's not exactly "proof" but one possible interpretation of that speech. I never considered it before but can accept this as a possibility, if not as fact.
    Remember that Anakin was a good person in TPM. It was later events and his situation that made him turn to the dark side. I don't think it was "genetic" or anything like that. There was potential in him to turn because of the force being powerful in him. But he was not really destined from the beginning to become a Sith. I still regard it more as his choice rather than inevitable fate.
    I like the fact that the movie is ambiguous on the issue, left open to the viewer's interpretation.
     
  25. DjangoKet

    DjangoKet Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Oct 15, 2015
    I think if Plagueis or Palpatine did influence the midichlorians to create life (or if they were attempting to and the force struck back creating Anakin) I still dont think it makes either of them Anakin's father. Either Palps or Plagueis are essentially Doctors in a kind of weird Force IVF that shmi didnt sign up for. I am only speculating, but i think DNA can only be inherited by the muggle way of reproducing (IE not force insemination) But if you reject the idea that the force created Anakin as a result of the manipulations of Darth Plagueis and Darth Sidious because it is no longer canon, then you have to reject the idea that Plagueis is a Muun, because that idea is no longer canon. In the new Canon we can only go from TCW, Rebels and the 6 Films. For all we know Plageuis could have been a blonde haired blue eyed sith who lived in Mos Espa and was a close personal friend of Gardula the Hutt (I dont believe he was, its just an example)
    As for Shmi having dark hair, a lot of peoples hair gets darker as they age. As a toddler i had pretty much white blonde hair - now it is pretty much black.
    What i want to know is how Shmi escaped cold war Russia and made her way to Tatooine.
     
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