Fanclub Plagueis: The Muun behind Damask

Well said! Yes indeed - Darth Plagueis the Powerful Sith Scholar of the Midichlorians ... and the fact how on a side note in the novel and EU he trained and mentored San Hill to later run the Banking Clan ..

Hehe funny enough I wrote a poem about him all the whilst the fact I also have the Black Series Darth Plagueis action figure haha

Darth Plagueis - I always wondered though - how would he have fared against Palpatine in an all out Force-duel - so not too different from Master Yoda and Palpatine's duel - and with Palpatine practically at the pinnacle of his Power in ROTS - given Darth Plagueis trained Palpatine to a high standard and also 'taught Palpatine everything he knew about the Force ... even the nature of the Dark Side...' and the fact other than Midichlorian Manipulation - I still wonder - given surely Darth Plagueis - whilst he may lose against Palpatine he surely would put up a good fight and have a few esoteric Sith tricks and Force Powers up his sleeve if necessary eh? Given when Palpatine - at the age of 17 had purged House Palpatine - he was seething with rage just after he proclaimed to Darth Plagueis 'MAGISTER I HAD BECOME A STORM! STRONG ENOUGH TO WARP BULK HEADS AND HURL BODIES ACROSS THE CABIN! I HAD BECOME DEATH ITSELF!' and Darth Plaguieus silently sized him up and thought 'what an Ally he would make ... WHAT AN ALLY HE WOULD MAKE!' and Palpatine in all his 'glory' or what he would be destined to be ...

And the many philosophical and wise quotes Darth Plagieus preached about the Sith doctrine and the Sith Grand Scheme to Palpatine ... and how Darth Plagueis even remarked a Dark Jedi is rather 'delusional' and has no idea in the Force on what even is a Sith and that Dark-Jedi turned Sith are not 'true Sith'... whereas a TRUE SITH LORD 'EMBRACES THE DARK SIDE FROM THE START!' and the fact a Dark Jedi might at times still retain Jedi principles - well look at Count Dooku given some say he's more of a fallen Jedi well Dark Jedi rather than really a Sith Lord and the fact how Count Dooku remarked to Asajj Ventress she may have the Dark Side 'but she is not true Sith!' and that Sith Lords 'lack Fear' whilst Dark Jedi are full of it ... and that Dark Jedi do not always necessarily work for Sith Lords or even join the Sith ... and that Dark Jedi likewise do not have a form of organization unlike the Sith ... in any case though both clearly are more angry and violent compared to the average Jedi and innocent being ... probably blade-happy and Force-happy to take down a few beings at times ...and also drawing a line between Ancient Sith whom he felt were 'butchers and animals and murderers' and hence violent thugs whom could not continue as Sith whereas the Banite generation of Sith via the Rule of Two would be the more 'civilized Sith' being 'Phantom Menaces' and 'always two there be ... no less and no more ...' and being 'architects of the future...'

'If you're to succeed in this (his Sith Training) - the Profane World and that of the Sith Sidious, you will have to learn how to use guile to your advantage and also note how others are employing it...' or where when Palpatine tried to 'use the Force to help him' negotiate a slope and Darth Plaguies admonished him by saying 'FOOL! SUCCESS DOES NOT COME UPON CALLING THE FORCE FOR HELP BUT FROM TAKING CONTROL OF IT AND USING THE POWER WITHIN YOURSELF!' and the fact all the whilst laying the groundwork for the Sith Grand Scheme ...

Considering also Palpatine up until the age of 17 he had 'bottled up his anger, his fear and his Powers' and the fact the murder of House Palpatine tore away the emotional walls that Palpatine tried to keep in his Powers and rage in check but by then his raw potential was but unleashed ... and the fact how Darth Plagueis even explained to Palpatine and 'offered' him the choice whether to join the Sith or to simply live in guilt and come to grips with what he had done but the fact he should and could join the Sith as the 'shortest and quickest route between today and tomorrow' and which he did do ... and yet the fact how Darth Plagueis emphasized the importance of emotions BUT also at the same time it was useless to have emotions unleashed and uncontrolled and that the Dark Side of the Force was important and it was vital to keep them in check or atleast harness them as to taming a wild beast and to subdue it ... given Darth Plaguies also remarked how 'Sith embrace the Dark Side FROM THE START and from the Self and Outwards ... how they stalk the Force like hunters ... rather than surrender to it like prey on enigmatic whims...' or simply even where Darth Plagueis when he 'encouraged' Palpatine to kill his family - Palpatine was somewhat desperate and Darth Plagueis remarked 'you must do what must be done ... whatever it takes' to avoid the separation from him ... and look at Palpatine where he tends to give sick encouragement by remarking 'DO WHAT MUST BE DONE! SHOW NO MERCY...' I wonder if there's a connection to this from Darth Plagueis ...

Given also where Darth Plagueis coldly demanded (pun intended) on Mygeeto to Palpatine who would have been SHEEV-ERING in the frigid naked cold 'tell me again AND IN GREATER DETAIL APPRENTICE ... HOW DID YOU KILL YOUR FAMILY...' and how he kept doing it again and again and again and taunting Palpatine as well as claiming how he would be Palpatine's 'torturer' to appease him ... BUT I think where when Darth Plagueis remarked 'I cannot have your will tempered by feelings of regret or compassion...' and how Palpatine must regard every living thing as 'a tool to guide him and elevate him to a higher place' ... I also wonder if that also in the EU fueled and emphasized the fact WHY Palpatine practically didn't 'give a Force' about anyone - and not even loyal ones - well those loyal to him given he was willing to discard those no longer of use to him ...

Also the fact how Darth Plagueis at one time coldly remarked to Palpatine '"You have the Force, apprentice, and the talent to lead. More, you have the bloodlust of a serial killer, though we need to hold that in reserve unless violence serves some extraordinary purpose. We are not butchers, Sidious, like some past Sith Lords. We are architects of the future." clearly explaining to Palpatine whilst he may and would be destined for great Powers - the same time he needed to exercise control over his Powers and not be some butcher or feral beast like Ancient Sith Lords whom were thugs and arrogant selfish (even by Sith standards at least around the time of Darth Bane otherwise why'd he bother killing Darth Kaan and the Brotherhood of Darkness eh?)

In particular with Darth Plagueis training Palpatine - it starts off after the murder of House Palpatine - then he 'Forced' Palpatine to endure the 'SHEEV-ERING' cold and unforgiving frigid wastes of Mygeeto ... and also: "Tell me what you regard as your greatest strength, so I will know how best to undermine you; tell me of your greatest fear, so I will know which I must force you to face; tell me what you cherish most, so I will know what to take from you; and tell me what you crave, so that I might deny you." - given it seems this implicates the high level and standard of training Darth Plagueis subjected Palpatine to regardless of how traumatic it was ...

Though I wonder again IF Palpatine didn't have Darth Plagueis as a mentor and such ... how successful then would he have been eh?

 

That's a good question. I think that Plagueis encouraged Sidious to not hold back from his darkest desires and ambitions. He was an enabler.

I think Sidious could have beaten Plagueis in a Force duel, but Sidious wouldn't have had an easy time. He would have endured several injuries and would be very tired. But in the end, I imagine he would triumph. He clearly was afraid to do it, and he was very busy, which is why he did it the way he did.

 

Darth Plagueis remarked to Palpatine when he was desperate for help 'Uncertainty is the first step to self-determination'... PLUS who's to say Darth Plagueis may have had one or two tricks up his sleeve?

AND the fact Darth Plaguies - he did subject Palpatine to some nasty grueling exercises - next to 'SHEE-VERING' on Mygeeto's frozen unforgiving naked cold wastes - he made Palpatine 'sample' a captive's bleeding beating heart ... using a harsh Lighsaber sparring practice session ... and explaining WHY the Sith are able to use Dark Side Power unlike the Jedi by default ...

 

I like the way Plagueis thinks and analyzes things. It's amusing when he complains about human habits, such as eating during meetings.

 

Darth Plagueis is a very interesting character.

Darth Sidious inner self is all about "kill-main-torture-sow-discord-enslave-everybody-and-everything-I-want-a-sandwich-of- baby-meat"; he's like 99% evil, remove the Dark Side and he's a completely different character. You can't think of Darth Sidious except as a Sith.

Darth Plagueis, on the other hand, you could remove the Sith part and he would be basically the same character. A cunning business shark and a scholar interested in the study of the Force and in finding the repice for eternal life. If he weren't a Dark Side user he could probably discuss the fine points or the Force with Yoda over a cup of tea (because Yoda wouldn't partake in Plagueis's booze).

 

Indeed > I see you changed your DP now to if I ain't mistaken Lady Lumiya?

Oh! I missed that in the novel - Darth Plagueis complained about 'eating during meetings?!' LOL - ain't that ironic? I mean when he hosts meetings on Sojurn and it was described he hosted also a 'mini-feast' for his guests ... though my favorite scene in the novel where Gardulla the Hutt was his guest and he 'mocked and teased her' and yet he was able to secure a business deal w' her - with a few strings attached - such as 'being a silent partner and a healthy percentage of the profits...'

 

You mean Sithcom, eeh ...

Well, I have red the Darth Plagueis-novel almost a year ago and now with expended knowledge about the EU I think it is worth reading it again. DP is an amazing Sith-Lord while I'm still pondering if 11-4D is a sithly equivalent to R2D2 able to rule a galaxy or command a fleet in battle even without his master for a certain time like his ancestor Clunker did in "Fatal alliance."

What I'm not sure about is, at what time did Hego Damask move from Aborah (Muunilinst) to Sojourn. 52 BYC was the assassination attempt at Fobosi Coruscant. From then on he was a kind of a reclusive eremite. I know that Venamis died 42 BYC at Aborah. So did he live that twenty years at Aborah or at Sojourn?

What I consider a tragedy of Darth Plagueis too is the fact that he always honored the Rule of the Two out of conscience of duty. He did not have an apprentice while he was apprentice to Tenebrous. He did not have another apprentice next to Sidious like his master held with Venamis next to Plagueis.

While he did approve Maul while disapprove the bestoval of the Darth title upon Maul by Sidious when he understood Sidious' remarks about his "partnership" with Maul in this sense.

Sidious called it arrogance while Plagueis was really believing that his apprentice would spare him from murdering him in accordance of the Sith-Order out of his veneration for his master and his need of further counselling after Sidious election to be chancellor. I call it another of his tragedies that he trusted no-one, that he used coldly everything and everyone for his own pursuit of power. But Sidious was someone he really cared for - more than he was supposed to do - and Sidious rewarded him for his trust - in his way. The same way Plagueis rewarded the trust of Tenebrous in this regard.

Sidious presumed his master wanting to replace him with the choosen one - a thing he did all too often with his own apprentices. And he presumed others to be like himself. While Plagueis did watch upon Anakin and possible other chosen ones to become other, younger versions of Darth Maul - extensions of his and his apprentice's will. Another tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise.

I wonder what happened to his ashes kept in a black jug in his private chancellor office. Was it buried or thrown in the wind after Palpatine's dead?

What I want to say with this: I want to join this club!

One of my favorite quotations of DP, here to retired King Ars Veruna before he killed him:

Ars Veruna: "Not ... better than ... an Anzati (bug)"
Darth Plagueis: "The brain-eaters? What means better than for those of us, who left already behind such thought-buildings as good and bad? Are you better than Bon Tapalo? Better than Padmé Amidala? I'm the only one in charge to answer the question. Better are those who bow to my will.

 

I agree. Sidious was all about his dark side, but Plagueis/Hego was more of a scholarly, crafty individual. Plagueis's booze, eh?

 

Sidious was beside his dark-side-skills a full-blood politician but, well, politicians don't have such a good reputation like business-men or scholars. And we aren't told how Palpatine managed the wealth he inherited from his family. I can't believe he gave it to Plagueis right away unless they acknowledge each other as reciprocal heir like some befriended persons do. So Sidious must have possessed some skill in wealth-management too.

And Sidious was left alone for some time by Plagueis, while he travelled to some worlds he was interested in. And he was fluent in many languages. Sidious is the classical type of shrewd social-science-academic upstart. That for all parents who don't believe their offspring that a carrier in those fields would do some good.

 

I recall that in the beginning of the novel, we learn from Plagueis's perspective that the goal of the Sith is to "save the people of the galaxy from themselves." Am I remembering correctly?

 

Pretty much - a good example is in his speech to Sidious:


Hurling the warrior to the ground with a Force push, he used the lightsaber to deftly open the primitive’s chest cavity; then he reached a hand inside and extracted his still-beating heart.
The keening of the crowd reached a fevered pitch as he raised the heart high overhead; then it ended abruptly. Following a protracted moment of silence, the fallen warriors were helped from the battleground and the crowds began to disperse, disconsolate but emboldened by the fact that they had discharged their duty. Horns blew and a communal chant that was at once somber and celebratory was carried on the wind. In the principal city, a stone stele would be carved and erected for the dead one, and the day-count would commence until the return of the Sith.
Plagueis placed the still heart on the primitive’s chest and used the hem of his robe to wipe the blood from his hand and forearm.
“At one time, though I recognized that Muuns are a higher class of beings, I puzzled over the fact that beings would relinquish their seats for me, or step into the muck to allow me to pass. But early on in my apprenticeship I came to realize that the lumpen species were making room for me not because I was a Muun, but because I was in fact superior to them in every way. More, that they should by all rights allow me to step not merely past them but on them to get where I needed to be, because the Sith are their salvation, their only real hope. In that we will ultimately improve the lives of their descendants, they owe us every courtesy, every sacrifice, nothing short of their very lives.
“But there are dark times ahead for many of them, Sidious. An era of warfare necessary to purge the galaxy of those who have allowed it to decay. For decay has no cure; it has to be eradicated by the flames of a cleansing fire. And the Jedi are mostly to blame. Crippled by empathy, shackled to obedience—to their Masters, their Council, their cherished Republic—they perpetuate a myth of equality, serving the Force as if it were a belief system that had been programmed into them. With the Republic they are like indulgent parents, allowing their offspring to experiment with choices without consequence, and supporting wrong-headedness merely for the sake of maintaining family unity. Tripping over their own robes in a rush to uphold a galactic government that has been deteriorating for centuries. When instead they should be proclaiming: We know what’s best for you.
“The galaxy can’t be set on the proper course until the Jedi Order and the corrupt Republic have been brought down. Only then can the Sith begin the process of rebuilding from the ground up. This is why we encourage star system rivalries and the goals of any group that aims to foment chaos and anarchy. Because destruction of any sort furthers our own goals.”
Plagueis paused to take the warrior’s heart back into his hands.
“Through us, the powers of chaos are harnessed and exploited. Dark times don’t simply emerge, Sidious. Enlightened beings, guiding intelligences manipulate events to bring about a storm that will deliver power into the hands of an elite group willing to make the hard choices the Republic fears to make. Beings may elect their leaders, but the Force has elected us.”
He glanced at his apprentice. “Remember, though, that a cunning politician is capable of wreaking more havoc than two Sith Lords armed with vibroblades, lightsabers, or force pikes. That is what you must become, with me advising you from the dark.”
“Are we grand enough?” Sidious said.
“You should ask, are we crude enough?” Plagueis quirked a smile. “We’re not living in an age of giants, Sidious. But to succeed we must become as beasts.”
Taking a bite from the warrior’s heart, he passed the blood-filled organ to his apprentice.

 

I'm speaking of their inner dialogue. Sidious is like "There is Yoda. How repulsive. How would I like to squash his tiny head! And that milksoup Obi-wan...I want to kill him real soon! Griveous is fun, he kills and tortures women and children, I will keep him some time more. Stupid Dooku, he doesn't realize he's just a butler; I will enjoy it when I let him know right before killing him!"...etc.He thinks EVIL all the time. His inner thoughts are made of like 90% evil. He has the mind of a serial killer, Plagueis himself says it to his face.

The only times he's a bit different is when he thinks about Anakin, and he still fully intends to turn him into a tool from the beginning. In the Book of the Sith he speaks of Darth Vader as a handicraft, a tool, a favoured pet, not as a person; "his monster", he says. He needs him because he plans to use him as "bait" to summon even greater Dark Side phenomenology.
In the Empire books he also seems to be fond of Tarkin, mostly because he is building his precious planet-killing abomination and because he likes his ideology of rule through terror.

Plagueis is coldly ruthless, but he doesn't relish the damage he inflicts; he's just willing to destroy others in order to achieve his goals. He's evil too, but evil makes a noticeably smaller part of his personality. When compared to Sidious, his inner dialogue is only like 70 % evil.

 

Not just that BUT didn't Darth Plagueis also practically tell Palpatine to 'shut up' when Palpatine was 'SHEEVING' with rage after he found out Darth Plagueis indeed indirectly manipulated him via 'DO WHAT MUST BE DONE!' to avoid separation from him and hence where Palpatine felt he had been 'used' and such and yet Darth Plagueis just told him the shut up by saying 'careful boy ... you are not the only one with the Power to kill in this Room...'

But didn't Darth Plagueis also explain to Palpatine that due to Palpatine's 'bloodlust of a serial killer' he needed to be 'refined' and hence not end up being like a mob-mentality minded bloodthirsty thug or ancient animalistic Massassi Sith or Ancient Sith whom were 'butchers'... and how he could not allow Palpatine to be 'affected by emotions...'

But speaking of money and such - I was watching the Lost Missions where there was the episodes with Rush Clovis and the Banking Clan - and Rush Clovis claimed that the majority of Muun's were a 'good people and honorable'... and I find that rather abit flattering - given look at San Hill - he's a Separatist and he's a Muun and he's more interested in money and backhanded under the table deals rather than be honorable or for the matter how Muuns are 'obedient to the word of the law but not the spirit of the law' and yet we see corruption in the Banking Clan the fact how Muuns only care about maths and money in the end ... and the fact well in the EU - in the Darth Plagueis novel Darth Plaguies personally raised and mentored San Hill to take over the Banking Clan ... though I'd say Darth Plagueis could have done the same thing just as well ...

But wouldn't you say no matter how experienced Palpatine or how Powerful Palpatine was and whilst Palpatine was indeed a manipulator and Powerful Sith Lord in his own right - no matter what - he would not have been as subtle as Darth Plagueis eh? I mean the fact up until really the time of the Invasion of Naboo and such - yet Darth Plagueis did hope to be the true Power behind the scenes ... and the fact how Darth Plagueis both EU and Canon - he did help Palpatine afterall one way or another eh? And IF he didn't find or help Palpatine - Palpatine might not have been as Powerful as he would be right?

 

No, Palpatine wouldn't have gone very far without Plagueis's tutelage and training. He would have developed some raw, primitive use of the Force, that would have been of some help, and I guess he would eventually have become a figure of some relevance, but no way he would have become Chancellor. Plagueis taught him how to conspire and how to work his way to the top. Also, Sheev didn't have the support of his family or of the king, so he wouldn't have become Senator for so long as those lived. He might have become a businessman or a lesser politician or a crime boss until his father and family died, and then, if he had managed to hide his nastiness well enough, he would have had a shot at big politics.

 

Maybe that's because Mygeeto is a very very cold cold and icy place. Just like Russia.

There were some speculations about Plagueis' return in Ep. VII. But there we just got a Revan-copy at the first glance. Maybe in Ep VIII Plagueis will come again. But then he clearly misses the opportunity to face Sidious again. I found the fact intriguing that Sidious kept Plagueis' ashes in one of the two black vases in his private office at the Senate.

 

I found one coincidence between Ep. VI "A new Hope" and James Luceno's Plagueis-novel.

Did somebody notice that Obi-Wan is telling Vader at the Death-Star quite the same "If you kill me, I'll become stronger than you ever can imagine"
like Plagueis told Sidious quite seventy years before after the Maladians on behest of Pax Teem maimed Plagueis' face and throat while he was forced to wear that transpirator-mask. Sidious doubted silently his master's strenght after that assault and his injuries. Plagueis sensed that and told Sidious: "Very soon I will become stronger than you ever can imagine."

Well, Aborah was quite a similar macabre place like the death-star. So is there some hope for us and Plagueis to remain as a force ghost too?

 

Hi guys!

I gotta a question about Darth Plagueis the Wise...

How could he save people from dying? How was the manipulation of midi chlorians? Did he inject midi chlorians inside people who were dying? I have never read anything about it. The only stuff I know about him is from the conversation of Anakin with Palpatine. Please, someone explain it to me. Thank you!

 

Ok - Midichlorian Manipulation actually works sorta nearly at a SUBMOLECULAR LEVEL - so its like basically the 'Splitting the Atom' of The Force in Star Wars - and basically applying and concentrating your Force Powers right at the core and heart of the Force - so basically just like how one tries to 'hack (no I do not encourage hacking)' right into the heart of a system and manipulate the system and hence controlling the network or system. Basically also like creating the Elixir or 'Immortality Pills' of Life...

And its Sith Alchemy so it would involve spells and rituals and such arcane knowledge of the Force; from Wookiepedia by 'imposing his will on the Force into creating a Forceful being, but considered this a failure, as Anakin Skywalkerwas created by the Force itself to bring an end to the Sith once and for all. Later, Palpatine used the promise of this power's effects to entice Anakin Skywalker further to the dark side.[1] He had also made the same proposition to Ferus Olin, telling him that he would teach him powers to defeat Darth Vader and the power over life and death.[2] Palpatine himself also possessed this power to a limited degree, having participated with Darth Plagueis in the aforementioned experiment that ultimately resulted in Anakin's conception.[3] However, he was unable to fully master the ability prior to slaying Plagueis, forcing him to utilize Transfer essence regarding clones to cheat death.'

 

Agreed,

when Plagueis boarded the "Woobegone" and was discovered by 11-4D, he sought to make an agreement with captain Ellin Lah to bring him to Muunilinst against a good reward before he was so bluntly rejected. After re-reading the passage I came to the conclusion that Plagueis' strive for a peaceful solution was sincere in this scene. While Sidious just would have wait for the right time to slay all of the crew mercilessly.

Is there nobody here to answer my questions in my postings before?

Where all all the Darth-Plagueis-Fans? I find this lack of answers and reactions disturbing.

 

Can I just say how cool I find 11-4D.

He's my favourite droid ever in Star Wars, one of the few actually morally ambiguous droids.

There are so few evil droids in Star Wars (other than mindless Battle Droids), so it's nice for 11-4D to just decide he likes working for Plagueis.

 

I'd love (and wouldn't be surprised at all if) Plagueis makes an appearance in the sequel trilogy, perhaps as Kylo Ren's master. If a truly great and powerful Sith Lord were to be the Big(ger?) Bad, it'd make sense if it were a returning or resurrected Sith... and who better than the only pre-Sidious Sith Lord mentioned in the movies, who was already established as having the power to cheat death? Furthermore, Plagueis would be the only truly believable and frightening Bigger Bad, given that he has trained the Emperor for credentials. I wouldn't mind if his being Muun is retconned either.

I'm glad I'm not alone in appreciating him. He reminds me of EV-A4-D, Grievous' delightfully snarky (and to Grievous, of all people!) doctor droid. The only droids I like more are A4-D and of course HK-47.

 

Hi Darth Dreadwear,


I would personally mind if Plagueis wouln't be a Muun in the sequels anymore. I'm so asquainted now with him being Muun. Why abandon this just because producers are to lazy or to stingy to invest in Muun-masks?

BTW : Do you know what function this cane has, that Plagueis holds in his left hand for instance in the Hasbro-Black-series-figure? Is that large cane something IBC-related or is it something sithly to hide his lightsaber?

 

Well, presumably CGI would be used, so that wouldn't be a problem. I've never been too happy about the decision to make Plagueis a Muun (or his Master a Bith) since I just don't think they can be made suitably frightening appearance-wise, although then again what Luceno did with this in characterising Damask was nothing short of incredible, so I am sympathetic to your view.

I've long been fascinated with Plagueis' staff ever since his first ever albeit non-canonical appearance in Tag & Bink. At the time I thought it might represent a Sith staff a la the Scepter of Marka Ragnos, strengthening his connection to the dark side and perhaps conferring other advantages or hidden abilities as well. As per the Black Series figure, it does double as a holder for his lightsaber which allows him to wield his saber as a lightsaber pike. I would suggest it is a Sith artifact that doubles as a lightsaber pike and also provides a hiding place, yet may have been publicly used for ceremonial purposes in the Order of the Canted Circle. To be honest, I wish they went with his non-canonical appearance; I always thought a Sith Nazgul/Dementor bearing a wizardly staff would look awesome.

 

He's not evil. It's actually a very good droid in that it does what a droid is supposed to do, to obey without question and with complete loyalty whoever is its current owner.

If droid developers and droid buyers could have their way, all droid would be like 11-4D, what scares people are the ones who develop personalities and free will and their own ambitions, preferences and morality system.

 

I don't know, I think he looks quite menacing here: