Speculation Plausible Plot Setup for Episode VII

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by caesar23, Nov 4, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. caesar23 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2012
    As a fan since I was a kid, I was always told by everyone that the PT would seal the deal, shut it down, and ultimately end the story. In 05, after watching ROTS, I was satisfied with the conclusion. Not a week later, I became curious as to what would be necessary keep the saga going.

    After reading the news of a ST on 10/30, I once again began to ponder, even after 7 years. I rapidly began to search for secrets and hints as to what might drive the story. I read about the General Thrawn trilogy, Yuuzhzan Bing Bongs, EU, and all that non-sense, I happily learned that it will stem from original material. For me, the Force is an integral part of the Star Wars universe, and to remove the dark side as the antithesis of the good/heroes would all but ruin it for me.

    IMO, I think George and his team of talented writers can somehow incorporate a new Sith. As we all know, Sith's are known for their patience, as every successful villain should be. I would like to think that maybe, possibly, another Sith could be brought in to the scheme of things. I know that Anakin, yes Anakin, destroyed the Sith and the dark side forever. But what if, for the sake of things, George chooses to have more offspring, preferably evil offspring at that. Sidious, Dooku, Maul or even a mini baby Grievous could come to existence. Perhaps even that the said descendants would even have learned the Force. I'd like to think a disdain for all Skywalkers will come into play, with young (most likely not, since VII is rumored to take place after VI), hate fueled Sith taught by his dark sided father. Perhaps he (or she) could even learn about the Kyber Crystal, which gave Palpatine his strength (unbeknownst to myself at the time of the PT). Perhaps their is a clash against Luke for the formation of a new Republic, where once again the Jedi and the Sith, although it most likely won't be a large number obviously due to the losses beforehand. Who knows, maybe the new Sith is also in cahoots with the a new technologically sound enemy bent on building a third Death Star!

    Sorry for the long read, but this is my first post and I'm new to the game. But tell me what you think, if their is any likelihood to my premonitions haha. Also, let me know what your thinking about/hoping for in the ST.

    May the Force be with us all!
  2. fishtailsam Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2003
    star 4
    Welcome to the boards. It's a friendly place!
  3. Voss Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 1

    I agree with all of your sentiments. Thats what led me down the path of the Force Wielders mentioned in the 'Mortis Trilogy' of TCW.. 'The Son' is neither Sith or Jedi though he leans to the dark side.. A return of them could spark conflict and not step all over the prophecy.
  4. Duragizer Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2009
    star 3
    No Sith. Dark Jedi, yes, but no Sith, especially Lucas-styled Sith. Go back to the pre-1999 era EU for inspiration - Thrawn and Dark Empire trilogies in particular - on how the Sequel Trilogy should be done, and leave the rest to gather dust.
    darklordoftech likes this.
  5. starve Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2012
    caeser23, I agree wholeheartedly with your suggestion that removing the Force competition (whether it's Sith necessarily or an undeclared dark side user doesn't matter). There were many hideous missteps made by Lucas in the PT, perhaps even more than the plot, a few things he did kinda tainted the lore. I would recommend (hope) that they would whitewash some of these mistakes for the betterment of the franchise going forward.

    Here are a some examples:

    • Midichlorians: Not a thing anymore. They will never be mentioned again. The origin of someone having Force ability will return to being a mystical cosmic happening that no one really understands. This also means you can't run a computer test to see how powerful someone is (or their potential). This whole concept was so short-sighted, it needs to be forgotten. In fact, I'd remove the idea that Force Users can even sense each other in all but the most extraordinary circumstances (Vader sensing his son, and Obi-Wan/Vader sensing each other qualify as extraordinary).
    • "Always two there are, the master and the apprentice": This one is almost as stupid as the midichlorians thing. It ties your hands. ...not to mention it has been contradicted constantly (Darth Vader has had about 10 secret apprentices in various mediums). The idea of the Sith should be that they are the natural progression of a Force adept who is untrained and succumbs to using his/her abilities for questionable acts. There could be thousands of these types, not necessarily evil, but maybe kinda bullies or low-level criminals (who happen to use the force). Some of them are more evil than others, and some are more powerful than others. This should be a huge pyramid. At the top of this pyramid would be the Darths. I'd accept the idea that there can only be two "Darths" at a time. ...but there are always plenty of no.3's out there ready to move up.
    • "Balance to the Force": This has never been clearly defined. But let's move forward under the assumption that this does NOT mean the Sith have been eradicated. In many ways, the imbalance in the Force during the PT was due to Jedi incompetence (letting themselves serve a political system). They should have been guided by The Force (not the republic). I've always thought that Anakin brought balance to the Force by wiping out the Sith AND the Jedi. He successfully did that. I don't believe that was Lucas' intent, but I think that actually makes more sense (considering the plot of the PT).
    • Jedi Turning to the Dark Side: I don't want to see that happen anymore. I know a lot of EU stuff focuses on this, and I think it's pretty lame. If Jedi are constantly turning to the dark side then a) the Darth Vader story isn't that unique and b) the Jedi are pretty flawed if they are so susceptible to this. ...there are plenty of other good challenges to put before them without making them always turn evil (and stop cutting little kids' heads off). Also, there should be plenty of 'evil' force users springing up around the galaxy to pose a threat to the Jedi without constantly having to worry about losing their own. Using this rule, it gives Jedi training an added value in that it, with virtual certainty, prevents someone from eventually turning to the dark side. ...this also adds impact to the rare cases where it has happened (Anakin).
  6. King_of_Red_Lions Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2003
    star 3

    I think GL tried to address this by including the Lost Twenty plot thread which never really got the promotion or wide acceptance it deserved. In the history of the Jedi Order, only twenty Masters left (it is unclear how many fell to the dark side) which makes Dooku's case extremely rare.
  7. caesar23 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2012
    I delved into the Mortis Trilogy, thanks for the insight!
    Voss likes this.
  8. starve Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2012
    Yes, but in addition to 'the lost twenty' you have Dooku - Anakin - and then another of the Solo children I believe in EU. So within one little lineage of master/apprentice you have about a 50% rate of jedi falling to the dark side. It's a tired story formula and it needs to go away. It was cool once, but repeating it is just lazy writing.

    I think we're in agreement. ...I guess the point is, the 'lost twenty' concept suggests it's exceedingly rare, so future writers need to respect the idea that it's a plot device that should be left alone.
    Last edited by starve, Nov 5, 2012
    darklordoftech likes this.
  9. Fleab88 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2012
    star 3
    I have a little trouble when people Claim Lucas messed up the Lore in the PT. it was his Lore. He can define it and tweak it all he wants. I may not like some of the changes, but it does not ruin the lore that he created.

    Midichlorians: Honestly not a huge issue to me. There had to be a reason why some could use the force, but others were not as capable. How midichlorians work, and what designates a person with their count is still a mystery that even science in Star Wars cannot understand. People hate the concept because they do not understand it for the most part.

    Rule of two: Again this is a huge misunderstanding. Of course the apprentice will always have a secret apprentice. They are lining things up so they have everything ready when the become a successor. The fact that there are only to legit sith that can be that devastating only enhances the statement on how powerful they are. This in now way changed the lore in Star Wars. Lucas simply gave detail to it.

    Balance of the force: I admit this issue has always been vague, and I believe it has been vague on purpose. Lucas even drops hints of this in Attack of the Clones. Yoda implies there is every reason to believe that this prophecy of balance has been completely misunderstood. In other words. Lucas has left an incredible amount of room to work with.

    Jedi turning to the darkside: Power corrupts. It is as simple as that. People are flawed and when you have no one to hold you accountable, but yourself you are in for a rough ride. This doesn't bother me to much. We think of this happening a ton because lots of EU stories seem to have this idea (Very few when you actually look at it). Even if you were to look at the full numbers of Jedi to those who turn dark I think you would be surprised at how small the percentage really is. I personally am ready for a new redemption story in the Star Wars universe, and I am hoping these movies give it to me.
  10. the-jedi-prince Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2011
    star 2
    In the Darth Plageuis book it is mentioned that there are other sith in the galaxy but those dont come from the Bane line aswell as mentioning Mortis.

    I personally think the son will escape Mortis and wreak havoc on the galaxy and seek revenge on the son of Skywalker
  11. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    We simply dont have enough info at this point to say what will be a plausible plot for 7. I would be pleased with Luke Han and Leia, but I will also be pleased if they go in a new direction.

    Really, the idea they're making these at all is wish fulfillment for me so I'm happy enough with whatever.

    We do know it wont be an adaptation of existing EU though. We know that much.
  12. Inblackestnight Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2012
    star 1
    Welcome, and that wasn't a long read at all :D Although I wouldn't doubt if the next movies somehow incorporate the Sith Anakin did not destroy the darkside, only the Bane-line of Sith. Depending on which EU stories the ST decides to incorporate, if any, we can be sure the darkside will be involved to at least give Luke something to do. I'm not a big post-RotJ fan, though I try to keep aware of its goings on, but these movies may turn that around if they are done without total contempt of the existing continuity. A hodgepodge of EU stories can work well with a more-focused story/plot instead of what we have now, which is of course just my subjective opinion. I realize you can't please everybody, especially SW fans, but trying to merge the two universes is not as difficult as those involved in TCW have been showing, and would thus appease more and not just the newer fans.
    Last edited by Inblackestnight, Nov 5, 2012
    the-jedi-prince likes this.
  13. starve Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2012

    Lucas can absolutely 'mess up' the lore. It's subjective of course, and it's my opinion. ...but it's not an uncommon one. Lucas can mess up his own lore just like Jefferson Airplane can make a mockery of itself by becoming Jefferson Starship. ...or the same way the concept of The Matrix (that was once very cool) became insulting and watered down in the sequels. In the specific case of Lucas, I suggest that many of the revelations (like Midichlorians) were never imagined during his creative prime, and only came out of the tired, vapid, corporate machine that he ended up becoming. Also, Lucas very intentionally had Han gun Greedo down in a pre-emptive strike. His 30 year-old sensibility thought that was cool. His 50+ year old sensibility worried about the message it sends to kids, so he lied to us and said that was always his intent.

    I submit that rather than having a "Jedi" turn to the darkside, a redemption tale could be built around some unaffiliated Force adept who tiptoes along the line of good and evil. ...a Han Solo archetype force user who would shoot first and who might abuse his power. That would be an opportunity to have someone make an ultimate choice to become a good guy, like Han did when he came back to help Luke at the DS. This person should not start out good, then go evil, then become good again. That's really tired.
    Last edited by starve, Nov 5, 2012
  14. Anakin's Daddy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2002
    star 4
    As long is there are force users, there will be dark force users... (And Lucas would never call them "Dark Jedi" by the way. That term doesn't even make sense.)

    And as long as there are "Dark force users" there will be Sith. The "Rule of 2" is basically there because of the Dark Force user's lust for control. There can be many dark force users at one time... much more than two. The thing is, every one of them wants to be the top Sith. I think that the "Sith" organization is just the most powerful one and their apprentice. The most powerful one doesn't want any others in the Sith organization because he knows that if there were more than one he would probably be overthrown. So I think the Rule of Two makes perfect sense. The Sith's greed and lust for power forces it to be that way.

    On another note, every "Light Force User" is not a Jedi. Luke wasn't even a Jedi until he defeated Vader in ROTJ according to Yoda. I'm just mentioning this because it is the head of the organization itself, Jedi or Sith, that must declare that person to be in the group and pass their trials before they are officially in that group. It was Yoda & the council's call to determine who was a Jedi, and It was Palpatine's call to determine who would be his Sith apprentice.

    With all that being said, I'm sure that Luke will have knighted others as Jedi.- He would have the authority to do so because he would be the most powerful Jedi there is since he was the last one. ...And the most powerful dark force user, whomever that may be, could declare himself Sith until the next more powerful one came along.

    I suppose I'm rambling a little off topic. In a nutshell caesar23, I believe you are right. There will ABSOLUTELY be a new Sith, and eventually an apprentice too!
  15. Fleab88 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2012
    star 3
    It's true that it is very subjective, but again I submit from a logical standpoint that Lucas cannot mess up his own lore if it is his lore. I may not like the lore that he ends up with, but to say it is wrong and against the vision of the story if foolish because I am a viewer of the story rather than a creator.

    Again with the midichlorian thing. This literally is not a big deal at all. It gives a brief explanation for why some can use the force and others cannot, but retains the mystery in blatantly showing us that we have no idea how or why they work. This is the common example fans give when they have no leg to stand on. It's really not that bad.

    I will admit I was never a fan of the Greedo shooting first fiasco. I would hardly call that a top tier issue to the lore of the story though. That is a creative detail I disliked, but not a story changer.

    I would submit that the concept of a redemption story involving an average Joe Han like character would be painfully boring. A character like that would be no threat against Jedi. Keep in mind what Jedi are capable of. We need an equally serious threat. Does that need to be Sith? Not necessarily, but an average guy with a blaster by his side is not gonna do it.

    People say the formulaic story I like is getting old, but let's think back to the past ten years. How many well crafted movies have we had with that kind of storyline?

    I'm honestly not trying to come off as hostile here, but it kinda gets me when fans get worked up over what really are some pretty petty issues in the bigger picture. I'm not saying Lucas is gold or anything, but he gets far harsher hits than he needs to. It is Lucas story. I may not always agree with it, but to say he was wrong, and went against the real lore makes no sense.
  16. whostheBossk Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2002
    star 4
    I foresee story centering around Han and Leia raising their twins while Luke is a jedi Master and has an academy set up with one or two of his children as well. Meanwhile the Empire has remnants of its existence still in place and there are many shadow groups who operate for evil or the Sith (new Sith Lord will emerge with a secret apprentice). Some how one of Han and Leia's kids (Jacen or Jaina) will fall victim to this dark Lord. This will be revealed in Ep. VIII and in Ep. IX there will be an epic battle.
    Hopefully this is well done, I can't wait! Just give us lightsaber and space battles while introducing cool, new characters with good acting. (I guess that is about everything)!
  17. Buddha Fett Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 1999
    star 4
    There's no acceptable reason for Luke to have children, or a spouse for that matter. It goes against everything we've been told about what it means to be a Jedi. We've even been explicitly told / shown why it's not the 'Jedi Way'. Anakin tried to make it work, and we all know how that turned out for him.
    DarthBreezy likes this.
  18. Grilled Hutt Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 24, 2003
    star 2

    I hope theres no children. I dont need 4 kids running around saying yippee. I would prefer they took like the Willow route where you meet your main character who is about to go on a grand adventure and along the way he meets the solos who were doing something else and end episode 1 with the unexpected and last minute arrival of luke skywalker with our new character in peril needing help and getting it in the most unexpected way with lukes arrival. I would even be happy if Luke was truly the last Jedi Master and the only one. Maybe he dies in the 3rd film. They can start a new star wars adventure after that completely untied from the OT/PT/ST and EU with a new Jedi hero unrelated to any of the previous films. Ive said it before - the grand adventure awaiting your hero/villian/meeting a legend/et cetera with the wonder and amazement of discovering the elements of the force is really what drove the original film before it became a family drama. I really hope their original story is completely UNEXPECTED. I want to feel like i did when i went and saw films like Sinbad, Raiders, Willow, Star Wars. Bringing in old crap like sith,midiclorians,27 different ways to swing your saber, balance of the force plot devices, is tedious and almost expected to a degree. Its time to rewrite and surprise us all. Dont overwhelm with flashy lightsaber duels, giant armies, clones,passing the torch stories or whatever but instead give us great story telling with heartfelt characters on a great adventure.

    I expect this new trilogy to satisfy the: "so where did all those guys end up doing after endor and lived ever after." story end of it to satisfy the completion of a 9 film arc as opposed to lets introduce their new kids/pass the torch plot device and continue raking in the money with the same old stories with new actors. Thats flogging a dead horse.
  19. StoneRiver Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 6, 2004
    star 4
    Wouldn't it be crazy if using the dark side of the force turns out to be a necessity to achieve proper balance, therefore fulfilling the prophecy?
  20. Jedi Comedian Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 27, 2012
    star 2
    Not really. About half the Star Wars fanbase believes that to be the case.
    darklordoftech likes this.
  21. StoneRiver Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 6, 2004
    star 4
    I must of missed that. Never seen anyone say that a force user should use both the light and dark to achieve proper balance. Does make sense though
  22. Jedi Comedian Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 27, 2012
    star 2
    Really? I mean, on these boards alone I've heard countless variations on that theme.

    Don't worry, you've got plenty of company. ;)
    darklordoftech likes this.
  23. StoneRiver Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 6, 2004
    star 4
    I'm reading the wrong threads :p
  24. Darth kRud Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 3
    If the new films are about Thrawn with no Sith I'll quit Star Wars.
  25. Buddha Fett Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 1999
    star 4
    Exactly. As much as what has come before is dear to me, I really only want the story to evolve and grow...become something entirely other. What would be the point of expanding on old plots and twisting them around? That's redundant and lazy. Also, who cares and why bother?

    I didn't fall in love with Star Wars because it gave me what I wanted or what I thought should ( or expected to ) experience. In all the PT docs, GL made it clear he was trying to mirror the OT - there are 'certain beats...things rhyme...". Well, that worked...to a point. This time around however, I want new beats and rhythms. Hell, I'm all for the old band getting back together, but I really don't want a reunion tour. I want a kick-ass new album. ;)
    Last edited by Buddha Fett, Apr 9, 2013
    Darth Claire likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.